Holiday by light aircraft

[Scabutz]

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I was saying to my wife I wanted to start my PPL. We are on holiday in Cornwall and had a massive 7 hour drive to get here. She joked that I could fly us and it would be quicker, and my kids asked if that was possible.

Is it? Could I fly from, just examples, as they are near by home and where we are. Cranfield to St Columb Airport. Leave the plan there for a week and then fly back?

This is of course assuming I have a plane, which I don't. Can't you rent them for a week?

[Saleen836]

Cant answer regards renting a plane but a friend of mine has his own,he flys to the coast for a day trip or the IOW or the channel islands with his wife,a few years ago he flew into Thurxton to watch the BTCC to avoid traffic

[normalbloke]

Add in the fact you’re flying into a county surrounded by 270 degrees of water, and the potential for it getting ‘interesting’ increase the potential for delays massively.

[Dr Jekyll]

Certainly you can rent them for a few days, never heard of anyone doing it for a week. But there's usually a minimum charge of something like 3 hours flying a day.

I used to know a few people who shared ownership of small aircraft, typically about 6 in a group.
One group had a system whereby every member had one week in six to have first dibs on the aircraft. If they wanted to fly off somewhere on day 1 and park it until they came back on day 7 they could. Of course this very rarely happened and if you wanted to fly during someone else's week you would just call them and check it was OK.

[essayer]

What size aircraft would you need for four people and a week’s worth of luggage

[Scabutz]

essayer said:

What size aircraft would you need for four people and a week’s worth of luggage

I travel light. Wife and kids not so much.

Thanks all, interesting. Seems like it's probably more arse ache than it's worth.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

It would be a very cool way to travel though wouldn’t it!

[anonymous-user]

The increase in private jet usage amongst friends and associates over this last 12 months has been interesting. The world of private jets must be booming.

I know at least 4 people who recently decided to hire private jets to go on holiday, who have never previously used such a thing.

I was surprised to learn that they aren't actually as expensive as you think, especially if there is a part of 6 or 8 of you wanting to go somewhere.

[eharding]

Scolmore said:

essayer said:

What size aircraft would you need for four people and a week’s worth of luggage

Depends on the luggage! Realistically you are looking at a PA28 and some very careful weight and balance calculations for the luggage

Our baggage carrier of choice on the Scotland trips was the Yak-18T - tough as old boots, reasonably roomy inside and a lot more grunt than your average spamcan, with a PA32 Cherokee Six as a strong second place contender. Four up in most PA28s isn't going to leave much leeway for baggage, and in the more asthmatic variants four up on a hot day is going to have trouble even getting airborne.

The truth is that the weather in the UK means that with a basic PPL you can't guarantee to get somewhere on a specific date, and even having managed to get there then you can't guarantee being able to get back home again on a specific date either, an in order to do so you need to invest in a significant amount of additional training and have access to suitable kit capable of coping with the conditions.

[48k]

Scabutz said:

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I was saying to my wife I wanted to start my PPL. We are on holiday in Cornwall and had a massive 7 hour drive to get here. She joked that I could fly us and it would be quicker, and my kids asked if that was possible.

Is it? Could I fly from, just examples, as they are near by home and where we are. Cranfield to St Columb Airport. Leave the plan there for a week and then fly back?

This is of course assuming I have a plane, which I don't. Can't you rent them for a week?

Can it be done? Yes.
Can you rent a plane for a week to do it? Yes.
Will it be quicker than going by car? Probably. Couple of of hours flying, couple of hours planning and aircraft prep.
Will it be cheaper than going by car? Not a hope in hell.
Will the kids/wife get annoyed if you have to delay the start of the holiday because the weather isn't good enough to fly, or we don't make the destination because of diverting en route due to weather? Only you can answer that.
Will the kids/wife get annoyed when you tell them they can only take a few kg of luggage each? Probably.
Will the kids/wife turn green and hurl if it gets a bit bumpy en route and demand you land immediately through hysterical tears and screaming? Only you can answer that.
Will the kids/wife/school/work get annoyed if you have to delay the return journey because the weather isn't good enough to fly or you have to divert en route due to weather? Probably

Is it a realistic option? Not really unless you have instrument rating (and possibly night rating) on top of your basic PPL plus access to a large aircraft with decent payload and get lucky with the weather.

[Scabutz]

48k said:

Scabutz said:

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I was saying to my wife I wanted to start my PPL. We are on holiday in Cornwall and had a massive 7 hour drive to get here. She joked that I could fly us and it would be quicker, and my kids asked if that was possible.

Is it? Could I fly from, just examples, as they are near by home and where we are. Cranfield to St Columb Airport. Leave the plan there for a week and then fly back?

This is of course assuming I have a plane, which I don't. Can't you rent them for a week?

Can it be done? Yes.
Can you rent a plane for a week to do it? Yes.
Will it be quicker than going by car? Probably. Couple of of hours flying, couple of hours planning and aircraft prep.
Will it be cheaper than going by car? Not a hope in hell.
Will the kids/wife get annoyed if we have to delay the start of the holiday because the weather isn't good enough to fly, or we don't make the destination because of diverting en route due to weather? Only you can answer that.
Will the kids/wife get annoyed when you tell them they can only take a few kgs of luggage each? Probably.
Will the kids/wife/school/work get annoyed if we have to delay the return journey because the weather isn't good enough to fly or you have to divert en route due to weather? Probably

So what your saying is I fly ahead with a ruck sack, park the plane up, get an Uber to the holiday home and crack a beer while they hump down in the car. Sounds good to me .

[Scabutz]

Scolmore said:

Scabutz said:

So what your saying is I fly ahead with a ruck sack, park the plane up, get an Uber to the holiday home and crack a beer while they hump down in the car. Sounds good to me .

Genius!
Solo, your aircraft options are pretty much unlimited too.

Yes. If only I had the bank balance for a TBM 900.

[ecsrobin]

Scolmore said:

My flight planning app says it would take my plane 2 hours and 5 mins to fly Cranfield to Newquay (couldn't find St. Columb in the 30 seconds I spent on this). There's a bit of routing around (or through) airspace at Brize and Bristol but otherwise a straightforward flight.

How practical it is as a holiday option largely depends on the plane and the weight it can carry. If you're wanting to take four people with 35kg of luggage each, things start to get large and expensive.
Looks like Newquay want £20 - £34.50 as a landing fee for most general aviation aircraft types. No idea what they would charge for a week's parking.

Newquay is £5 per tonne per 24 hrs up-to 100 tonnes. Han garage is more.

[LimaDelta]

Private flying is justified by many in strange ways. We can take the family away, it will save time, etc.

The reality is different. It is very weather dependant. You can't pull over so the kids can have a wee. There won't necessarily be an airfield near where you want to be. It can be noisy and uncomfortable for any passengers who don't share your enthusiasm for flying. You will probably need to rent a car when you get there. Can you stay longer if the weather is too bad to leave? There aren't many four seat aircraft (four seats doesn't mean four people) which will carry four people, luggage and full fuel, meaning you may need to stop a couple of times to fill up, even on a relatively short journey.

I love flying, but don't pretend I do it for any practical reasons. I just really enjoy it. The old adage of 'time to spare - go by air' is true in some cases, but when all the planets align I have made some amazing day trips and mini-breaks by light aircraft.

If you are the sort of person who can be very flexible with timings, who won't be distracted by squabbling kids, who won't allow external pressures effect your go/no-go decision, then it can work. But it is far less hassle to go by car.

The last long trip I did (a few weeks ago) was with the boy. He's a big Harry Potter fan, so we decided to fly up to the Glenfinnan viaduct. We prepped the aircraft one morning, flew up to Oban and refuelled (both aircraft and crew), then flew off to the north over Ben Nevis and then the viaduct, before returning back to Oban for another quick top-up and then home. Total flight time was around five and a half hours. To drive the same journey would have taken the best part of 12 hours, and we wouldn't have had the spectacular views of the west coast on the way.

If you want to fly, do it because you want to fly. Not because you think it will be less hassle than dealing with a few traffic jams.

I heard something the other day. It was about sailing, but I guess applies equally well to private flying.

"Why do you sail, it takes so long to get anywhere?"

"Because when I'm on a boat I've already arrived"

[zombeh]

48k said:

Will it be cheaper than going by car? Not a hope in hell.

Easily solvable, what you need for that is a microlight, a TVR and an island.

[ecs]

essayer said:

What size aircraft would you need for four people and a week’s worth of luggage

A PA32 would be up to the job if you want to carry a few bags and an SR22 would do the job if you wanted to carry less. Both can be flown by a PPL with a reasonable amount of experience.

I I've been on a few family trips up to Scotland from either Wellesbourne or Denham in both types, with myself flying the PA32 and my dad the SR22. I've got an IMC rating and my dad had an FAA instrument rating so he flew airways. The problem you'll have in the UK is the weather, so an IMCr or IR is a pretty useful thing to work towards otherwise you'll need to be more flexible with plans. I remember flying airways in the SR22 one year and ending up in the middle of a thunderstorm, you'll be driving your wife and kids on holiday every time after that if you do that to them!

You can hire aircraft or join a group/syndicate. They all have different rules regarding usage on long trips away; for instance, if you're hiring you may find that you will need to pay for an hour or so a day even if you're not flying if you take the aircraft away for longer than a few days.

[blueg33]

I'm sure you could rent an aircraft. As a student I spent one summer running a rental office that rented aircraft out on behalf of the owners.

I was paid in flying lessons

[Crumpet]

Lord Marylebone said:

The increase in private jet usage amongst friends and associates over this last 12 months has been interesting. The world of private jets must be booming.

I know at least 4 people who recently decided to hire private jets to go on holiday, who have never previously used such a thing.

I was surprised to learn that they aren't actually as expensive as you think, especially if there is a part of 6 or 8 of you wanting to go somewhere.

In 10+ years flying bizjets I’ve never seen it so busy, it’s absolutely mad at the moment. Lots of new clients who are new on private jets and who, hopefully, will find it hard to go back.

Some of the smaller ones are fairly reasonable for short hops across to the continent and, like you say, for a group of people it can actually make sense. The big ones, like ours, less so. But there’s no shortage of people at the moment with the money to pay for it.

And regarding the OP; small piston planes make sense in places like the US where you can do a PPL and IR cheaply and quickly. It’s also very GA friendly and cheap to operate them. In the U.K. everything is the opposite and I’d say it would be just a ball ache!

[Scabutz]

Scolmore said:

Pistonheads to a tee: "Can I fly to Cornwall?", "Yes absolutely, what you need is an SR-22"

True Pistonheads would say I need an SR-71

[blueg33]

Scabutz said:

Scolmore said:

Pistonheads to a tee: "Can I fly to Cornwall?", "Yes absolutely, what you need is an SR-22"

True Pistonheads would say I need an SR-71

Hmmmm. No pistons