US Attack Sub in South China Sea collision

[dvs_dave]

US Attack Sub in South China Sea collision

I wonder *what* it collided with? A poorly charted seamount, or another vessel? Does the fact that what it collided with has not been revealed mean anything?

[Last Visit]

Does seem a bit strange yes.

I also read your thread title as the US had attacked a Chinese sub...I thought WW3 was about to kick off.

[Jimbo.]

A phosphor bronze iceberg again?

[105.4]

Last Visit said:

Does seem a bit strange yes.

I also read your thread title as the US had attacked a Chinese sub...I thought WW3 was about to kick off.

Bloody hell, that’s how I first read it.

Sadly, I fear it’s a question of ‘when’ not ‘if’ China invades Taiwan, and I think that’ll happen within the next three years.

[Cold]

Two navy officials speaking on condition of anonymity said:

[It was] not yet clear what object the sub had struck but that it was not another submarine. One official said it could have been a sunken vessel, a sunken container or other uncharted object.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/08/us...

[Elroy Blue]

As soon as the Chinese economy starts to tank, Taiwan is toast.
It's a standard move for despots to deflect attention and try to get the population on side.
The West will write a strongly worded letter with sanctions for a few months, then it'll all be back to normal

[dukeboy749r]

Elroy Blue said:

As soon as the Chinese economy starts to tank, Taiwan is toast.
It's a standard move for despots to deflect attention and try to get the population on side.
The West will write a strongly worded letter with sanctions for a few months, then it'll all be back to normal

Given Taiwan has 300,000 troops, US planes, weaponry and sea defences, it might not be that straightforward.

[Zetec-S]

dukeboy749r said:

Elroy Blue said:

As soon as the Chinese economy starts to tank, Taiwan is toast.
It's a standard move for despots to deflect attention and try to get the population on side.
The West will write a strongly worded letter with sanctions for a few months, then it'll all be back to normal

Given Taiwan has 300,000 troops, US planes, weaponry and sea defences, it might not be that straightforward.

Agreed.

Providing Taiwan doesn't do anything stupid like declare independence, I don't think China will launch an invasion any time soon. It isn't your typical tin-pot dictatorship, they have thousands of years of history and are used to playing the long-term game.

[Plymo]

It's pretty hard to tell if it really is "something" or just one of the many things that float around on the sea (or under it!)
The Americans have had collisions with all sorts of things that they should have seen though (including tankers!) so its not stretching the imagination for it to be a half sunken container, an uncharted rock, or something similar...
Unless it left propeller marks on the casing!

[Mikebentley]

Lots of shipping containers floating in the open sea. Smarter than me will tell us how many thousands there are out there.

[FourWheelDrift]

Godzilla is coming.

[p4cks]

FourWheelDrift said:

Godzilla is coming.

And he's gonna be annoyed having been bumped into by a sea turd

[Register1]

105.4 said:

Last Visit said:

Does seem a bit strange yes.

I also read your thread title as the US had attacked a Chinese sub...I thought WW3 was about to kick off.

Bloody hell, that’s how I first read it.

Sadly, I fear it’s a question of ‘when’ not ‘if’ China invades Taiwan, and I think that’ll happen within the next three years.

But just like HK, Taiwan belongs to China.
I think the rest of the world should just keep out, and especially USA stop meddling in affairs that dont concern them.

[Elroy Blue]

Register1 said:

But just like HK, Taiwan belongs to China.
I think the rest of the world should just keep out, and especially USA stop meddling in affairs that dont concern them.

Taiwan is an independent country.
I suppose you agree with China that the South China Sea belongs to them because part of it touches their coastline. Or maybe because it’s got ‘China’ in its name

[105.4]

Register1 said:

But just like HK, Taiwan belongs to China.
I think the rest of the world should just keep out, and especially USA stop meddling in affairs that dont concern them.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Taiwan does not “belong to China”

Taiwan is an independent, sovereign nation, with its own flag, its own laws, it’s own currency, it’s own armed forces, it’s own trade deals, it’s own membership of the WTO & APEC, its own borders, territorial waters and airspace, its own state bank, it’s own Olympic team and even its own international football team.

[ATG]

Register1 said:

But just like HK, Taiwan belongs to China.
I think the rest of the world should just keep out, and especially USA stop meddling in affairs that dont concern them.

It belongs to the people who live there and to no one else and defending people's right to self-determination is everyone's responsibility.

[Simpo Two]

105.4 said:

Register1 said:

But just like HK, Taiwan belongs to China.
I think the rest of the world should just keep out, and especially USA stop meddling in affairs that dont concern them.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Taiwan does not “belong to China”

Taiwan is an independent, sovereign nation, with its own flag, its own laws, it’s own currency, it’s own armed forces, it’s own trade deals, it’s own membership of the WTO & APEC, its own borders, territorial waters and airspace, its own state bank, it’s own Olympic team and even its own international football team.

Like Poland had in 1939. Whether you're independent or not, someone with a lot of tanks and aeroplanes can spoil your day.

As to whether 'The West' should intervene with its (allegedly) superior morals and human rights, that's a tricky one. Can the West police/control the world? No. That said, if countries didn't step in sometimes that Europe would look very different today.

As for Taiwan, whilst invasion would no doubt be rather bad for the Taiwanese, how would it affect our lives here in humdrum UK? Not much I think. Perhaps we spend too much time worrying about the rest of the world and should concentrate on our own issues.

[leef44]

Get Bond!

Tomorrow Never Dies.

[105.4]

Simpo Two said:

Like Poland had in 1939. Whether you're independent or not, someone with a lot of tanks and aeroplanes can spoil your day.


As for Taiwan, whilst invasion would no doubt be rather bad for the Taiwanese, how would it affect our lives here in humdrum UK?

That’s a good point you raise. I have felt for several years now that an invasion of Taiwan is sadly an inevitability. And the most recent statements out of Beijing just this last week are, I find, concerning.

So how much would we be effected here in the UK?

I guess that depends on two potential outcomes.

1) We get involved militarily.

2) We don’t.


I’m no expert. I just like to read the news and try and take in what’s going on around me. If my opinions are wrong, then they’re wrong. There’s no requirement for others to mock me, (not you Simpo, I know you’re a good egg).

If option no:1,
then I can imagine the situation escalating. I imagine India getting involved quite quickly to strengthen its own border with China. Pakistan has recently been carrying out military drills with China, so there’s potential there for regional conflict between three nuclear powers. Of course you get a Muslim county involved and then you have a Jihad.

Australia, Japan, maybe South Korea are likely to get involved, which could then provide NK to get optimistic about its chances against SK. If Australia and India are involved, then I fear the UK will end up being so as well.

This wouldn’t be a war against some 2nd-world dump like Iraq. It would be a messy and highly dangerous conflict against a world superpower, with the highly dangerous consequences such matters entail.

How would this effect our economy? How much do we rely on products from both China and Taiwan? Isn’t Taiwan the worlds largest producer of microchips and various electrical components? How easily could the UK re-buff an all-out and prolonged cyber attack? (I don’t fancy our chances in that regard, especially concerning Government infrastructure).

No two ways about it, I’d expect the situation to get very, very messy, very, very quickly.


If option no:2
Half of my extended family is in China, (Beijing), but I’m no fan-boy of the CCP. What we’ve been seeing over the last 30 years is an aggressive expansionist policy by China. Such matters need to be addressed and the sooner the better.
Can we afford to not get involved? What happens if we don’t? China becomes even more emboldened and is highly unlikely to just stop at Taiwan. Didn’t we learn this lesson back in 1938? (“peace in our time”).


Neither option 1 or option 2 is a good one. I’d dearly like to think that there honestly is a good diplomatic solution, but we’ve seen over and over again that the CCP laughs in the face of International Agreements and flies into a rage at any criticism. Can you imagine how they would act regarding sanctions, (if any meaningful ones were ever implemented).

Generally I like to remain optimistic, but such optimism is in very short supply regarding this current situation.

I’d be interested to hear the honest and sensible thoughts of others regarding this?

[dvs_dave]

Mikebentley said:

Lots of shipping containers floating in the open sea. Smarter than me will tell us how many thousands there are out there.

I don’t think a shipping container that’s floating around would have anything like enough mass to cause a jolt large enough to result in crew member injuries. A circa 10,000 ton seawolf class sub underway at 20-30ktn would swat a floating container out of the way like it was nothing. It must have been terrain, or something *considerably* larger.