Do train drivers still have to fault find?

[shed driver]

Years ago, train drivers were expected to fault find and attempt minor repairs in situ in order to keep the job running.



Does this still happen, or is it job over until a fitter arrives?

Also, as a bonus - here's a driving lesson for a DMU. Can anyone identify the location?



SD.

[anonymous-user]

Up to a point, yes, but usually in conjunction with someone on the end of the phone.

On older stock maintained in-house by the train operator, drivers (and to a point guards) will have a fairly thorough technical knowledge of their train and be competent to deal with issues. A lot of new fleets
tends now though to be acquired with a maintenance contract incorporated from the manufacturers, in some cases the trains being maintained in depots built and owned by the manufacturer and them being contracted to simply provide X number of trains each day to the operator fo to run their services. In a lot of those cases a driver will simply phone the manufacturer's maintenance controller if a fault arises.

Freight ops tend to be different, not least due to the fact that trains are regularly a very long way from a depot and wagons etc are prone to frequent issues as they're constantly being shunted around yards and generally lead a pretty hard life.

[IJWS15]

Left the train in Skegness?

The description of the second brake gauge had me puzzled, vacuum was a single pipe system. The second gauge is the pressure in the vacuum reservoir which provides a vacuum reserve so the brakes release faster.

As an aside - and I have done it on carriages rather than DMUs - how do you find leaks in a vacuum system? For the smart ones remember that soapy water doesn't work as the bubbles are inside the pipe where you can't see them.

Remember riding in an old DMU out of York one day, woman and young boy sat in front seat with the following conversation ....

"Mum, is that the steering wheel?"
"Yes dear"
Driver gets in and train leaves the platform (handbrake hadn't been left on).

A minute or so later . .

"Mum, why isn't the driver using the steering wheel?"

[ChocolateFrog]

You're taught to do it, atleast I was.

But then you go under sole bar and every valve and isolation cock is lock wired in position.

Chatting to the old hands and very few of them get their hands dirty, I doubt you'd even get most of them to go and have a look if it's raining.

During our training I fished a large bird out the coupler with my hands and everyone else seem horrified.

[shed driver]

IJWS15 said:

Left the train in Skegness?

The description of the second brake gauge had me puzzled, vacuum was a single pipe system. The second gauge is the pressure in the vacuum reservoir which provides a vacuum reserve so the brakes release faster.

As an aside - and I have done it on carriages rather than DMUs - how do you find leaks in a vacuum system? For the smart ones remember that soapy water doesn't work as the bubbles are inside the pipe where you can't see them.

Remember riding in an old DMU out of York one day, woman and young boy sat in front seat with the following conversation ....

"Mum, is that the steering wheel?"
"Yes dear"
Driver gets in and train leaves the platform (handbrake hadn't been left on).

A minute or so later . .

"Mum, why isn't the driver using the steering wheel?"

I used to love being able to see into the cad of first gen DMUs as a child. Apart from when a miserable driver put the blinds down!

SD.

[P5BNij]

If something goes wrong we just all the maintenance control bloke and follow his instructions, often as not shutting the loco down completely and restarting it can solve the problem. By far the worst example I've had with a Class 66 was a few years ago down at Oxford in freezing cold weather, the loco had been sat there for three or four days and refused to start. I was on the phone with the fitter for almost an hour swapping the large PCBs around in the electrical cabinet at no.1 end until it fired up.

With Class 70s you don't find the faults, they find you!

[matchmaker]

IJWS15 said:

Left the train in Skegness?

The description of the second brake gauge had me puzzled, vacuum was a single pipe system. The second gauge is the pressure in the vacuum reservoir which provides a vacuum reserve so the brakes release faster.

1st generation DMUs had a twin pipe vacuum system.

[texaxile]

P5BNij said:

If something goes wrong we just all the maintenance control bloke and follow his instructions, often as not shutting the loco down completely and restarting it can solve the problem. By far the worst example I've had with a Class 66 was a few years ago down at Oxford in freezing cold weather, the loco had been sat there for three or four days and refused to start. I was on the phone with the fitter for almost an hour swapping the large PCBs around in the electrical cabinet at no.1 end until it fired up.

With Class 70s you don't find the faults, they find you!

I thought that 66's needed to be kept running in really cold weather for frost protection? (no idea why, just was told that they did). I know in the Ipswich yard there was an Xmas roster for the shed men / drivers to pop down and start them up.

I've often seen exasperated drivers opening up the control panel at the back of the cab , flicking switches and scratching their heads. More often than not we'd dig a rescue loco out from another part of the yard and couple it up as it was usually quicker.

[valiant]

“What have you done to rectify the issue driver?”

Ermmmm….

[anonymous-user]

valiant said:

“What have you done to rectify the issue driver?”

Ermmmm….

"....I've phoned you, mate....."

[coppernorks]

Yes, many drivers will prefer to try and fix a fault than declare the unit shagged and wait 4 hours for
a fitter to arrive or wait the same time for an assisting train and a gap in the timetable to haul it out.

[loggo]

As I recall you could hear the hissing of the inrushing air if the pipe wasn't sitting properly or there was a vacuum leak so it was not difficult to spot. This does not apply if you've just hit a cow at 45 miles an hour on the mainline !

[P5BNij]

coppernorks said:

Yes, many drivers will prefer to try and fix a fault than declare the unit shagged and wait 4 hours for
a fitter to arrive or wait the same time for an assisting train and a gap in the timetable to haul it out.

On Class 70s we’re not allowed to open any of the engine compartment doors, so any serious fault means you have to wait for a fitter to turn up. I had one completely die on me a few months ago that needed chummie in his van to attend, luckily I was only shunting at Battersea and not blocking the job on the mainline.

[2xChevrons]

loggo said:

As I recall you could hear the hissing of the inrushing air if the pipe wasn't sitting properly or there was a vacuum leak so it was not difficult to spot. This does not apply if you've just hit a cow at 45 miles an hour on the mainline !

I remember seeing a programme on South African Railways (still using vacuum brakes) where they went along the train with lighted balls of diesel-soaked cotton waste on a shunting pole, playing it over all the vacuum pipes and connections. If there was a leak the flame would be drawn towards, or even into, the point of the leak.

Which also reminds me of an anecdote in Gerry Fiennes' memoirs of a part-fitted goods train which stalled in the Haymarket tunnel near Edinburgh as the ejectors couldn't keep the vacuum off. The fireman walked back along the fitted part of the train, failed to find the leak and so the driver left the footplate and went to have a look for himself. Both men reached the last fitted wagon and the driver found that the vacuum hose on rear of the wagon wasn't properly seated on its dummy plug. He pushed it properly into place, and as they were walking back to the engine the train took off without them - the regulator was still open and the reverser wound all the way forward from where they'd been trying to pull uphill against the increasingly-dragging brake, and both ejectors were still wide open from the attempt to create vacuum. From the moment the driver had re-seated the hose the vacuum had been building and taking off the brakes, with steam at the cylinders.

[matchmaker]

2xChevrons said:

loggo said:

As I recall you could hear the hissing of the inrushing air if the pipe wasn't sitting properly or there was a vacuum leak so it was not difficult to spot. This does not apply if you've just hit a cow at 45 miles an hour on the mainline !

I remember seeing a programme on South African Railways (still using vacuum brakes) where they went along the train with lighted balls of diesel-soaked cotton waste on a shunting pole, playing it over all the vacuum pipes and connections. If there was a leak the flame would be drawn towards, or even into, the point of the leak.

Which also reminds me of an anecdote in Gerry Fiennes' memoirs of a part-fitted goods train which stalled in the Haymarket tunnel near Edinburgh as the ejectors couldn't keep the vacuum off. The fireman walked back along the fitted part of the train, failed to find the leak and so the driver left the footplate and went to have a look for himself. Both men reached the last fitted wagon and the driver found that the vacuum hose on rear of the wagon wasn't properly seated on its dummy plug. He pushed it properly into place, and as they were walking back to the engine the train took off without them - the regulator was still open and the reverser wound all the way forward from where they'd been trying to pull uphill against the increasingly-dragging brake, and both ejectors were still wide open from the attempt to create vacuum. From the moment the driver had re-seated the hose the vacuum had been building and taking off the brakes, with steam at the cylinders.
[/quote

I read that recently. It didn't end well...

[texaxile]

2xChevrons said:

I remember seeing a programme on South African Railways (still using vacuum brakes) where they went along the train with lighted balls of diesel-soaked cotton waste on a shunting pole, playing it over all the vacuum pipes and connections. If there was a leak the flame would be drawn towards, or even into, the point of the leak.

Which also reminds me of an anecdote in Gerry Fiennes' memoirs of a part-fitted goods train which stalled in the Haymarket tunnel near Edinburgh as the ejectors couldn't keep the vacuum off. The fireman walked back along the fitted part of the train, failed to find the leak and so the driver left the footplate and went to have a look for himself. Both men reached the last fitted wagon and the driver found that the vacuum hose on rear of the wagon wasn't properly seated on its dummy plug. He pushed it properly into place, and as they were walking back to the engine the train took off without them - the regulator was still open and the reverser wound all the way forward from where they'd been trying to pull uphill against the increasingly-dragging brake, and both ejectors were still wide open from the attempt to create vacuum. From the moment the driver had re-seated the hose the vacuum had been building and taking off the brakes, with steam at the cylinders.

Jesus I hope no one was hurt, that sounds pretty damn serious.

Nothing like that sinking feeling of knowing something is going terribly wrong and it's all your fault.

Regarding the pipes issue, very often when connecting them you can lose a rubber ring but a good brakesman always has a few in his pocket.

Sometimes you have to spit on them to get them to connect properly, but you can always tell when they're not seated when you pull the tap down and put air through. One slightly amusing but nonetheless puerile communication we used to give to the driver when doing a brake test was "got my hand on the cock ready to give it a pull mate" That went by the wayside when female (or male transitioned to female) drivers started to appear.

Disconnecting pipes without putting the "tap" up can lead to some nasty injuries, which is why we were always taught to pull the taps up before anything else when "in between" because you only ever make the mistake once. The most common fault we seem to get is a handbrake left on with some of the older non "interlocking" (a wagon which, when handbrake is applied drains the air thus destroying brake continuity in the train) wagons that run around.

Edited by texaxile on Friday 29th October 19:18

[P5BNij]

texaxile said:

2xChevrons said:

I remember seeing a programme on South African Railways (still using vacuum brakes) where they went along the train with lighted balls of diesel-soaked cotton waste on a shunting pole, playing it over all the vacuum pipes and connections. If there was a leak the flame would be drawn towards, or even into, the point of the leak.

Which also reminds me of an anecdote in Gerry Fiennes' memoirs of a part-fitted goods train which stalled in the Haymarket tunnel near Edinburgh as the ejectors couldn't keep the vacuum off. The fireman walked back along the fitted part of the train, failed to find the leak and so the driver left the footplate and went to have a look for himself. Both men reached the last fitted wagon and the driver found that the vacuum hose on rear of the wagon wasn't properly seated on its dummy plug. He pushed it properly into place, and as they were walking back to the engine the train took off without them - the regulator was still open and the reverser wound all the way forward from where they'd been trying to pull uphill against the increasingly-dragging brake, and both ejectors were still wide open from the attempt to create vacuum. From the moment the driver had re-seated the hose the vacuum had been building and taking off the brakes, with steam at the cylinders.

Jesus I hope no one was hurt, that sounds pretty damn serious.

Nothing like that sinking feeling of knowing something is going terribly wrong and it's all your fault.

Regarding the pipes issue, very often when connecting them you can lose a rubber ring but a good brakesman always has a few in his pocket.

Sometimes you have to spit on them to get them to connect properly, but you can always tell when they're not seated when you pull the tap down and put air through. One slightly amusing but nonetheless puerile communication we used to give to the driver when doing a brake test was "got my hand on the cock ready to give it a pull mate" That went by the wayside when female (or male transitioned to female) drivers started to appear.

Disconnecting pipes without putting the "tap" up can lead to some nasty injuries, which is why we were always taught to pull the taps up before anything else when "in between" because you only ever make the mistake once. The most common fault we seem to get is a handbrake left on with some of the older non "interlocking" (a wagon which, when handbrake is applied drains the air thus destroying brake continuity in the train) wagons that run around.

Edited by texaxile on Friday 29th October 19:18

A couple of months ago one of our shunters smashed some of his teeth in when he let go of the brake pipe whilst doing a brake test, he opened the tap, the pipe flew up and, well.... you can imagine the rest.

[2xChevrons]

texaxile said:

Jesus I hope no one was hurt, that sounds pretty damn serious.

Nothing like that sinking feeling of knowing something is going terribly wrong and it's all your fault.

No injuries, just a big pile of wreckage.

As Fiennes tells it:

The loco crew made it to a telephone and the signalman was able to divert the runaway onto the docks branch, and the next station was phoned to warn the guard as the train passed.

The station staff duly shouted, waved and gesticulated with increasing vigor as the brake van passed the platform. But it happened to be the guard's birthday and he thought they were just wishing him well, so he stayed leaning on the verandah, enjoying his pipe.

He became concerned when the train swung onto the branch and put on speed down the bank. With the train doing about 50mph he chose a grassy spot and jumped from the van. He rolled to a stop without injury, or even breaking his pipe, still firmly clamped in his jaws.

At the enquiry the footplate crew firmly maintained that the locomotive had a badly leaking regulator valve, and all the other local drivers closed ranks and dutifully confirmed that all J39s had regulator valves which leaked sufficiently to start a heavy goods train.

The wreckage proved otherwise, with the regulator open to the second valve...

[matchmaker]

2xChevrons said:

texaxile said:

Jesus I hope no one was hurt, that sounds pretty damn serious.

Nothing like that sinking feeling of knowing something is going terribly wrong and it's all your fault.

No injuries, just a big pile of wreckage.

As Fiennes tells it:

The loco crew made it to a telephone and the signalman was able to divert the runaway onto the docks branch, and the next station was phoned to warn the guard as the train passed.

The station staff duly shouted, waved and gesticulated with increasing vigor as the brake van passed the platform. But it happened to be the guard's birthday and he thought they were just wishing him well, so he stayed leaning on the verandah, enjoying his pipe.

He became concerned when the train swung onto the branch and put on speed down the bank. With the train doing about 50mph he chose a grassy spot and jumped from the van. He rolled to a stop without injury, or even breaking his pipe, still firmly clamped in his jaws.

At the enquiry the footplate crew firmly maintained that the locomotive had a badly leaking regulator valve, and all the other local drivers closed ranks and dutifully confirmed that all J39s had regulator valves which leaked sufficiently to start a heavy goods train.

The wreckage proved otherwise, with the regulator open to the second valve...

It took four days to clear up the wreckage!

[Chrisgr31]

This one https://twitter.com/Chris_TheDriver/status/1454800... had to cut up a tree!