Alternatives to Dart 15

[Duke Caboom]

Hi,

Although sailing isn't my main hobby, I am experienced sailor, have owned many dinghies, know what I'm doing. But I haven't been involved with sailing since the kids arrived, 10 years ago.

Now that they are 10 I'm thinking of a Dart 15. I owned a Dart 18 for a 3 years and used to crew them as a teenager 30+ years ago.

The advantage of a Dart 15 is that I can use it on my own for a bit of Thursday night racing (I'd almost always sail using both sails) and take one of the kids for a spin on the weekend. The 15 should be easier to manoeuvre on the beach / in the surf on my own than the 18 was, though I am concerned that it might feel a bit slow. My memory from teenage times was that the 15s were a lot slower. though that might be because they weren't sailed well.

This is just for a bit of cheap fun. Is there anything else for c£1500 that can be raced single or solo, quick and easy to rig.

[Jaguar steve]

I'd be thinking about whatever boat is popular where you're sailing, particularly if you're intending to race.

If you go for that it'll be easier to buy and sell within the local area and racing identical boats always add a edge and is great indication of how well you're sailing that you don't get with handicap racing against different classes IMO.

If your 10 year old gets into sailing - which of course is very much to be encouraged - he might end up prefering something he can solo or take out with a pal rather than crewing for you and a Dart will be way too much of a handful for a couple of youngsters.

[Arnold Cunningham]

Jaguar steve said:

I'd be thinking about whatever boat is popular where you're sailing, particularly if you're intending to race.

This! It's a lot more fun having close & competitive racing on the water than it is sailing off on your own for an hour and a half in a faster boat - crossing the line first but potentially coming last after handicap corrections.

[Duke Caboom]

Thanks for both replies.

Am aware of difference experience of handicap and single boat fleet.

The racing I want to do is just a bit of fun. More about having a blast and keeping my hand in than being serious.

Tellingly, I don't want to race all day / both days of the weekend, as I have on the past, just a quick one on Thursday nights.

I used to travel for well over an hour, passing several other clubs in the way, to get to a club that had the right fleet. But I'm not interested in that now. I used to be a committee member too. Also not interested now.

Having said that, I will keep my Laser, which in my experience means there is always at least one other to race against, should I want to get serious. If the kids do get a taste for it I'll bit something more suitable then.

[Arnold Cunningham]

I never liked the difficulty in tacking a cat. But that said, once you’re up on one hull and really flying, it’s pretty good fun. I always much preferred the darts over the hobies.

Not kid friendly, but my 52 year old mate has just bought himself a waszp!!!!

[MBBlat]

The 18 can be raced competitively solo, about 1/2 the fleet where I sail does so.
The Hobie cat range are big in Europe, less so in the UK which means both less chance of finding any racing and difficulty in finding boats. The 16 is very much a marmite boat, some people love them, personally I think they are a horrible outdated design.

If your looking to stick to two hulls and single handing, maybe a Unicorn - old design but lighter than a dart, single handed racing only. They measure as an A-class, but will not be competitive in that fleet.

[Jaguar steve]

MBBlat said:

If your looking to stick to two hulls...

Then one of Reg White's Tornados is the proper answer.



Way too old and fat for all that hiking out on the trapeze and getting all shouty at the windward mark malarkey now but once you've sailed one...

Edited by Jaguar steve on Wednesday 5th January 20:04

[Munter]

Jaguar steve said:

Then one of Reg White's Tornados is the proper answer.



Way too old and fat for all that hiking out on the trapeze and getting all shouty at the windward mark malarkey now but once you've sailed one...

Edited by Jaguar steve on Wednesday 5th January 20:04

I loved being out on the trapeze of a hurricane 5.9. Based on the name I assume it's from the same stable.

[Arnold Cunningham]

I’ve never done much on the cats. But high performance monohulls with wings has always been where it’s at for me. I’d need 3 months to get fit again, but I absolutely could and would do it again. Last time out was an RS00 couple of years back and it was ace.

[Jaguar steve]

Munter said:

Jaguar steve said:

Then one of Reg White's Tornados is the proper answer.



Way too old and fat for all that hiking out on the trapeze and getting all shouty at the windward mark malarkey now but once you've sailed one...

Edited by Jaguar steve on Wednesday 5th January 20:04

I loved being out on the trapeze of a hurricane 5.9. Based on the name I assume it's from the same stable.

I don't know if that's the case.

Reg White was an Olympic gold medalist from Brightlingsea in Essex who owned a company building Tornado cats back in the '70s and maybe because of his success they had quite a cult following on the east coast as being the absolute best you could buy.

I went to boarding school with Reg's son and as well as racing a Laser or crewing for my dad in the school holidays was always up for a race crewing on anything fast like Condors and Tornados with anybody who'd take me so got to sail with some hardcore competitive sailors as well as one or two complete mentalists as a Yoof.

50 odd years on the main objective of my sailing now is trying not to spill anybody's drinks when tacking...

[Duke Caboom]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll get one!

[Cyder]

Jaguar steve said:

I don't know if that's the case.

Reg White was an Olympic gold medalist from Brightlingsea in Essex who owned a company building Tornado cats back in the '70s and maybe because of his success they had quite a cult following on the east coast as being the absolute best you could buy.

I went to boarding school with Reg's son and as well as racing a Laser or crewing for my dad in the school holidays was always up for a race crewing on anything fast like Condors and Tornados with anybody who'd take me so got to sail with some hardcore competitive sailors as well as one or two complete mentalists as a Yoof.

50 odd years on the main objective of my sailing now is trying not to spill anybody's drinks when tacking...

The Hurricane was designed by Reg white with 2 criteria if I remember correctly,
1) the Tornado is too wide to tow, but the Hurricane can be towed fully assembled.
2) the Tornado is very difficult (impossible?) to right from a capsize without help from a safety boat. The Hurricane is fairly straightforward to right unassisted.

Hurricanes are fantastic fun to sail (I’ve sailed both them and Dart 18’s in the past).

[Jaguar steve]

Cyder said:

2) the Tornado is very difficult (impossible?) to right from a capsize without help from a safety boat.

It is. Sometimes it takes two. Ask me how I know.

There's a small memorial to RW on Brightlingsea hard.

[tracer.smart]

Nice Nacra 6.0 on eBay, can single hand or go two up. All the bits inc road trailer.

Cheap as chips at £1k.

[Duke Caboom]

tracer.smart said:

Nice Nacra 6.0 on eBay, can single hand or go two up. All the bits inc road trailer.

Cheap as chips at £1k.

20foot too big for me to launch in the surf, I think. But that's a lot of performance for not much cash! You won't go faster for less!

[J3JCV]

Back in the day when i worked at Cornwall Activity Centre which then became Windsport and the hub of all things Dart. Brian had a Dart 15 Sting - which was a 15 with near enough an 18 rig, I think this what you need. However dont remember it having a jib.

[Brother D]

Duke Caboom said:

tracer.smart said:

Nice Nacra 6.0 on eBay, can single hand or go two up. All the bits inc road trailer.

Cheap as chips at £1k.

20foot too big for me to launch in the surf, I think. But that's a lot of performance for not much cash! You won't go faster for less!

I was going to say a Nacra! Sailed a few over the years and have to say found them a bit intimidating but hugely fun : )

[tracer.smart]

Brother D said:

Duke Caboom said:

tracer.smart said:

Nice Nacra 6.0 on eBay, can single hand or go two up. All the bits inc road trailer.

Cheap as chips at £1k.

20foot too big for me to launch in the surf, I think. But that's a lot of performance for not much cash! You won't go faster for less!

I was going to say a Nacra! Sailed a few over the years and have to say found them a bit intimidating but hugely fun : )

The Nacra 15 and Nacra 17 would be the ones for single handing, but they are very expensive and you don’t see many up for sale. The foiling versions are mad.

A-Class cats also brilliant for single handing, but again very expensive as an experimental class, but I would love to get my hands on one.

Hobie FX1 is a 17 footer, also great for single handing and can go two up, about as close to production A Class as you can get, and would be great for hooning. Now discontinued by Hobie as it concentrates on the kayak market. Probably nearer £5k to get a good one, but few of them in the UK, more in the mainland European sailing spots.

I think your best bet is the Dart - cheap, plenty around, fast enough and lots of fleets for racing if you feel like it.

There are three 18” on eBay, two less than £1k.

[Duke Caboom]

J3JCV said:

Back in the day when i worked at Cornwall Activity Centre which then became Windsport and the hub of all things Dart. Brian had a Dart 15 Sting - which was a 15 with near enough an 18 rig, I think this what you need. However dont remember it having a jib.

Sounds interesting. I'll keep an eye out

[Duke Caboom]

tracer.smart said:

The Nacra 15 and Nacra 17 would be the ones for single handing, but they are very expensive and you don’t see many up for sale. The foiling versions are mad.

A-Class cats also brilliant for single handing, but again very expensive as an experimental class, but I would love to get my hands on one.

Hobie FX1 is a 17 footer, also great for single handing and can go two up, about as close to production A Class as you can get, and would be great for hooning. Now discontinued by Hobie as it concentrates on the kayak market. Probably nearer £5k to get a good one, but few of them in the UK, more in the mainland European sailing spots.

I think your best bet is the Dart - cheap, plenty around, fast enough and lots of fleets for racing if you feel like it.

There are three 18” on eBay, two less than £1k.

Yeah - I agree. The purpose of the thread was just to check that there wasn't something newer or less well known out there but it doesn't look like there is really.

Now need to decide 18 vs 15.
I was minded to go 15 as:
Less intimidating for the kids who are not experienced
Easier to move on own on soft sand
Easier to launch solo in surf - the 18 had a lot of hull area getting pushed about in anything but head onto the waves, especially as they don't tend to roll and rise over the waves as a monohull does.
Roller reefing on jib sounds like a good idea, especially with inexperienced kids on board, one less thing to worry about coming ashore.
Can be legitimately raced solo but using jib, which I found makes tacking in waves more reliable than main only. (I got round this by racing the 18 solo with both sails, but people only turned a blind eye for the more relaxed Thursday eve series, especially as the jib was in a terrible state)
Also I thought it would fit in the shed end-on, but have just measured and it won't.

But 18s are faster and more plentiful, so I may go with one of those instead.

The beech club I sail from has a lot of holiday makers on it in the summer. My memory of coming ashore in the Dart 18 with an onshore wind and quite large surf is that the lack of manoeuvrability in the waves and number of children swimming made it a very stressful task.

Thanks for all the replies.

Edited by Duke Caboom on Saturday 15th January 08:52