What should the UK have bought?
Discussion
What aircraft do we think the UK military should have bought but didn't?
My suggestions:
F14 instead of Tornado ADV.
A4 Skyhawk instead of Supermarine Scimitar. I know it's half the size but perhaps that would be an advantage on UK carriers.
Nimrod MRA4 instead of 'a capability holiday' but new build rather than applying the 'pimp my ride' technique to mutated Comets.
Valiant Mk2 instead of, er, Valiant Mk1.
Let's not even get into the TSR2 debate.
My suggestions:
F14 instead of Tornado ADV.
A4 Skyhawk instead of Supermarine Scimitar. I know it's half the size but perhaps that would be an advantage on UK carriers.
Nimrod MRA4 instead of 'a capability holiday' but new build rather than applying the 'pimp my ride' technique to mutated Comets.
Valiant Mk2 instead of, er, Valiant Mk1.
Let's not even get into the TSR2 debate.
Steve vRS said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Would you see the F18s as replacing the F35 for the RAF as well as the RN? Having shared aircraft does seem sensible.
As we are in fantasy land, the RAF can have a few Raptors. 
I think the whole attraction of F18s for the navy is as a more sensible and realistic option than the F35.
Dr Jekyll said:
What aircraft do we think the UK military should have bought but didn't?
My suggestions:
F14 instead of Tornado ADV.
We actually came very close to doing that when the ADV version was taking so long to sort out......but, the price of the F-14 at the time (was still the original A version at the time) was nearly twice the unit cost of what the ADV was going to be, and the RAF/MOD were put off by the frightening maintenance costs compared to the Tornado. By all accounts though it was a very nearly run thing.My suggestions:
F14 instead of Tornado ADV.
Shame....
aeropilot said:
Muppet007 said:
F111 rather than the Tornado.
We actually did order them to replace the cancelled TSR.2.And then went and cancelled the F-111 order as well.
aeropilot said:
We actually did order them to replace the cancelled TSR.2.
And then went and cancelled the F-111 order as well.
I think we should have got together with the Americans and combined the TSR2 and F111 programs. If the US Navy had said 'but we can't use TSR2 as a carrier based fighter' we could have pointed out that their version of the F111 was going to be canned anyway. But it just so happened that we had a design for a swing wing interceptor which we were going to build with the French under the name AFVG, but the French being French it was better to make it an AAVG instead. So we'd have got a TSR2 and an F14 by about 1970.And then went and cancelled the F-111 order as well.
Interestingly enough, when the US Navy asked for proposals for what would become the F14. Dassault, the French partner on AFVG got together with I think General Dynamics and put forward a mock up that looked suspiciously like an AFVG mock up repainted in US markings.
Simpo Two said:
Maybe the NATO countries should work cooperatively, pool resources and pick the best of what the various members can bring to it. But I suppose there's too much national pride/interest to allow that.
Something pretty similar has happened with Tornado Typhoon and F35. Prior to that P1127/Kestrel, Fiat G91 and Alphajet. The trouble is that once more than 2 countries get involved the requirements diverge until you end up trying to make a Mach 3 VTOL jet with an Air Sea Rescue capability.Dr Jekyll said:
Simpo Two said:
Maybe the NATO countries should work cooperatively, pool resources and pick the best of what the various members can bring to it. But I suppose there's too much national pride/interest to allow that.
Something pretty similar has happened with Tornado Typhoon and F35. Prior to that P1127/Kestrel, Fiat G91 and Alphajet. The trouble is that once more than 2 countries get involved the requirements diverge until you end up trying to make a Mach 3 VTOL jet with an Air Sea Rescue capability.Dr Jekyll said:
Let's not even get into the TSR2 debate.
What's to debate? They should have gone ahead, ordered them and lived with the fact the whizzo avionics would probably not have been fully available much before 1970(or bought the ground following radar gear from the US as fitted to the F111). The airframe was much lower risk than the F111 and less likely to end up with long periods grounded due to complex wing pivot problems etc. An ADV variant of TSR2 would have been an interesting option given the internal weapons bay could allow better sprint performance than the tonker or used as tank space greater loiter time.
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