Electric motor - Classic Runabout
Discussion
I have a Classic Runabout that has been in storage for several years now, it's a small boat at around 5.2m long and looks to be fairly lightweight so is relatively easy to transport on it's trailer. I've been contemplating converting the boat to run on an Electric motor, which is for several reasons and hopefully later this year the boat will be used here in the uk on various inland waterways, all of which are speed restricted... ie canal's and other river's like the Thames etc.
Having already spoken to what I believe was / is a well respected company with regard to the type of use and hours needed to run the motor etc... I've since then not had any response from them further to my enquiries, therefore, I'm looking into other options.
Would anyone out there that has been involved with converting a boat to use an Electric motor point me to their recommendations on the best items to use (motor/batteries/controller etc) and/or can advise on who are the people or companies to speak to regarding them supplying a quality conversion kit ?
Or, who would you choose to actually carry out all the conversion work to a high standard (Ideally south based but all suggestions most welcome) ?
Many thanks in advance...
Having already spoken to what I believe was / is a well respected company with regard to the type of use and hours needed to run the motor etc... I've since then not had any response from them further to my enquiries, therefore, I'm looking into other options.
Would anyone out there that has been involved with converting a boat to use an Electric motor point me to their recommendations on the best items to use (motor/batteries/controller etc) and/or can advise on who are the people or companies to speak to regarding them supplying a quality conversion kit ?
Or, who would you choose to actually carry out all the conversion work to a high standard (Ideally south based but all suggestions most welcome) ?
Many thanks in advance...
I have a 27' cabin cruiser and about a year ago spent a vast amount of time trying to find a company that would convert it to electric running. The hard part was that it needed to do 5mph for 16 hours - a full weekend's cruising from base back to base. There are no charging points along the river of course, so forget going more than a day form base.
I wanted a single supplier that could specify the system, supply all the parts and do the conversion. None could. Some would sell parts but not do the work, some would sell some of the parts but not all, some would fit it but not supply the parts. One sent me a spec - but on examination it would only run for an hour... The leading boatyard on the waterway, when asked, said they were 'too busy'.
As the worst case scenario was a boat with its diesel engine sitting on the bank and an electric system that didn't work, I quit.
Some here will say 'Yeah it's easy, just get some old milk floats and bolt them together' - but I don't have that skills or knowledge.
I wanted a single supplier that could specify the system, supply all the parts and do the conversion. None could. Some would sell parts but not do the work, some would sell some of the parts but not all, some would fit it but not supply the parts. One sent me a spec - but on examination it would only run for an hour... The leading boatyard on the waterway, when asked, said they were 'too busy'.
As the worst case scenario was a boat with its diesel engine sitting on the bank and an electric system that didn't work, I quit.
Some here will say 'Yeah it's easy, just get some old milk floats and bolt them together' - but I don't have that skills or knowledge.
For 16 hours of running with onboard power you will need about 750Kw of battery
7.2Kw is about £4,000. 750Kw will cost about £450,000 with control and 30hp motor pack.
It will weigh 2500Kg.
A 30hp outboard is £5000.00
Can you see why it is difficult to get anyone involved? I will do it for £500K if you want, cash up front.
7.2Kw is about £4,000. 750Kw will cost about £450,000 with control and 30hp motor pack.
It will weigh 2500Kg.
A 30hp outboard is £5000.00
Can you see why it is difficult to get anyone involved? I will do it for £500K if you want, cash up front.
king mini sat on a milk float chassis who needs maths?
Simpo Two said:
I have a 27' cabin cruiser and about a year ago spent a vast amount of time trying to find a company that would convert it to electric running. The hard part was that it needed to do 5mph for 16 hours - a full weekend's cruising from base back to base. There are no charging points along the river of course, so forget going more than a day form base.
I wanted a single supplier that could specify the system, supply all the parts and do the conversion. None could. Some would sell parts but not do the work, some would sell some of the parts but not all, some would fit it but not supply the parts. One sent me a spec - but on examination it would only run for an hour... The leading boatyard on the waterway, when asked, said they were 'too busy'.
As the worst case scenario was a boat with its diesel engine sitting on the bank and an electric system that didn't work, I quit.
Some here will say 'Yeah it's easy, just get some old milk floats and bolt them together' - but I don't have that skills or knowledge.
Rather unfortunate that your search to convert your cruiser to electric running didn't work out Simpo Two.I wanted a single supplier that could specify the system, supply all the parts and do the conversion. None could. Some would sell parts but not do the work, some would sell some of the parts but not all, some would fit it but not supply the parts. One sent me a spec - but on examination it would only run for an hour... The leading boatyard on the waterway, when asked, said they were 'too busy'.
As the worst case scenario was a boat with its diesel engine sitting on the bank and an electric system that didn't work, I quit.
Some here will say 'Yeah it's easy, just get some old milk floats and bolt them together' - but I don't have that skills or knowledge.
With my project being somewhat smaller, I would hope there will be a solution to complete a suitable electric conversion if I do go down that route, it will no doubt take some more research though.
Also, out of interest and after a quick look, it would appear there are various charging points along some of areas that my boat may travel...which is handy to know.
https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22not...
offthehook said:
Rather unfortunate that your search to convert your cruiser to electric running didn't work out Simpo Two.
With my project being somewhat smaller, I would hope there will be a solution to complete a suitable electric conversion if I do go down that route, it will no doubt take some more research though.
With a smaller lighter boat, and hopefully a better hull design, you'll certainly be in a better position than I was. It's worth pursuing. The company that impressed me most was Vetus - they knew all the maths and tech but couldn't supply batteries or install anything. With my project being somewhat smaller, I would hope there will be a solution to complete a suitable electric conversion if I do go down that route, it will no doubt take some more research though.
offthehook said:
Also, out of interest and after a quick look, it would appear there are various charging points along some of areas that my boat may travel...which is handy to know.
I think there are a fair number of electric launches on the Thames, which may help to explain it. For a day boat - ie just a few hours' use - electricity is relatively easy. When you want to do several days on a fully equipped boat with an electric WC, thrusters etc it's a different matter.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Ha, that was one of the solutions presented to me. 'But sir you can extend the range by just fitting this massive diesel generator we can sell you for £8,000.' 'But my boat already already has a diesel engine; you want me to throw it away and replace it with one that costs more?'The whole point of going electric for me was to be free from noisy engines that need maintenance and have inlets vulnerable to weed blockage. But it's the least worst option.
When a company can offer a 'Convert your river cruiser to electric running' package that has a reasonable cost and performance, they will clear up I think. I suggested to Vetus that they might like to use my boat as promotional prototype, and I'd happily have a 'Electric power by Vetus' logo on the side, but they weren't interested.
YorkshireWhisky said:
For 16 hours of running with onboard power you will need about 750Kw of battery
7.2Kw is about £4,000. 750Kw will cost about £450,000 with control and 30hp motor pack.
It will weigh 2500Kg.
A 30hp outboard is £5000.00
Can you see why it is difficult to get anyone involved? I will do it for £500K if you want, cash up front.
Are you referring to the battery capacity (ie kWh) or its power output (ie kW). The two are just different things.7.2Kw is about £4,000. 750Kw will cost about £450,000 with control and 30hp motor pack.
It will weigh 2500Kg.
A 30hp outboard is £5000.00
Can you see why it is difficult to get anyone involved? I will do it for £500K if you want, cash up front.
Your costs are way too high, and very different from what I see in the market place today.
I'll assume a 30 hP (ie 23 ish kW) output motor is in the right ballpark ?
Hence if you want to run that for 2 hours at full power you will need 2x23 = call it 50kWh battery pack.
If you really want to run for 16 hours at full power would require 16x23 = 368kWh battery pack. (If you do that I'd suggest specifying a slightly larger motor, perhaps 50 kW.)
The motor I'd guess will be something like £5k, the controller maybe the same, ie £5k, and the battery pack is where the costs do indeed start to add up.
If you can get a UK supplier with stock (difficult) I'd estimate £1k / kWh capacity. If you can handle buying from China then we've paid £200 / kWh for a good battery pack recently. (UK suppliers will also buy from China)
On top of that you would need to pay someone who can sort all this out for you, and importantly marinise the system.
Or you could go for turnkey solutions from Torqueedo, Lynch Electric Motors and a few more.
I like Lynch electric motors. Torqueedo I'm less impressed with if I'm honest and they're chuffing expensive.
PM if you can't get any sense out of these companies, I know some of them well.
In June there is the Green Tech Boat show at Queen Anne's Battery in Plymouth (16th to 18th). A number of UK companies will be there, and you might pick up a bargain ! I'll be there too.
The whole 'range extender' thing makes me laugh. Who do they think they are kidding...
Edited by 911newbie on Saturday 29th January 12:54
maffski said:
Simpo Two said:
...But my boat already already has a diesel engine...
Have you thought about inline hybrid with your existing engine? Lynch mentioned above do oneI did talk to Lynch but like the rest they couldn't put together a complete package. IIRC there also wasn't room between the gearbox and stern gland. Anyway it would have been the worst of both worlds - a diesel engine AND half a ton of batteries.
Simpo Two said:
offthehook said:
With my project being somewhat smaller, I would hope there will be a solution to complete a suitable electric conversion if I do go down that route, it will no doubt take some more research though.
With a smaller lighter boat, and hopefully a better hull design, you'll certainly be in a better position than I was. It's worth pursuing. The company that impressed me most was Vetus - they knew all the maths and tech but couldn't supply batteries or install anything. I do know of Vetus - IIRC I spoke to them in the past enquiring about other ICE engines when looking for various options and they were helpful. I also enquired about a hybrid conversion elsewhere, but since knowing more charge points are becoming available, it then makes the 2hr to 4hr range...now extend further, especially with how battery technology has advanced.
The hull design on my runabout looks like it's built to go fast, ie the plaining type, so going at river/canal speeds won't be familiar to this boat, shame I know. Not too sure converting to electric will happen this year, but it's in the plans so we will see. I'm hopeful that the boat is still usable for now, once everything has been gone over since being in storage. A big consideration with the conversion though, are the batteries ie extra weight, mainly because of how much lower the boat will sit off the trailer (it's already low), so I expect Lithium batteries will be needed, which are way more expensive over standard. The motor will probably be a Lynch motor, lithium batteries will save on weight, more research needed re controller and any other components that will need to match up correctly.
Found a chap on YouTube who has done a similar thing to his small classic clinker boat... which has given me some food for thought, especially on some of the issues that crop up at the end !
The chaps name is Bill.
Link below for the first of four programmes... have a search for the other three if you fancy it.
https://youtu.be/wFtBEgs36Rk
Respect to Bill
911newbie said:
I like Lynch electric motors. Torqueedo I'm less impressed with if I'm honest and they're chuffing expensive.
PM if you can't get any sense out of these companies, I know some of them well.
In June there is the Green Tech Boat show at Queen Anne's Battery in Plymouth (16th to 18th). A number of UK companies will be there, and you might pick up a bargain ! I'll be there too.
PM if you can't get any sense out of these companies, I know some of them well.
In June there is the Green Tech Boat show at Queen Anne's Battery in Plymouth (16th to 18th). A number of UK companies will be there, and you might pick up a bargain ! I'll be there too.
Edited by 911newbie on Saturday 29th January 12:54
offthehook said:
The hull design on my runabout looks like it's built to go fast, ie the plaining type, so going at river/canal speeds won't be familiar to this boat, shame I know. Not too sure converting to electric will happen this year, but it's in the plans so we will see. I'm hopeful that the boat is still usable for now, once everything has been gone over since being in storage. A big consideration with the conversion though, are the batteries ie extra weight, mainly because of how much lower the boat will sit off the trailer (it's already low), so I expect Lithium batteries will be needed, which are way more expensive over standard. The motor will probably be a Lynch motor, lithium batteries will save on weight, more research needed re controller and any other components that will need to match up correctly
I would go for lithium too. More cost but so much weight and space saved, and better in every respect.Here are some Vetus links you might like to add to your research:
https://www.vetus.com/en/electric-propulsion-produ...
https://www.vetus.com/en/v-can
https://vetusonline.com/english/electricity-on-boa...
I remember now that they don't do lithium batteries, so you'd have to get those elsewhere.
One thing that killed Lynch for me was the control panel; it looked like a 1970's electronics project.
Questions that should be answered:
· Length
· Breadth
· Draught
· Displacement
· Diameter of the propeller, plus clearance (or aperture)
· Propeller shaft size
Some information on the boats current performance such as engine power, gear ratio, top speed and propeller size fitted.
· Required cruising speed
· Required top speed
· Cruising range required (miles or hours @ X speed)
· Is the cruising area tidal or non tidal
· Access to a charging point at home berth
· Amps available at home berth charging point
· Are there charging points available within your cruising area
· Space for a generator etc.
As you can see it gets complicated very quickly - hence my preference for a one-stop shop. Good luck with the project and let us know how it goes
Simpo Two said:
offthehook said:
The hull design on my runabout looks like it's built to go fast, ie the plaining type, so going at river/canal speeds won't be familiar to this boat, shame I know. Not too sure converting to electric will happen this year, but it's in the plans so we will see. I'm hopeful that the boat is still usable for now, once everything has been gone over since being in storage. A big consideration with the conversion though, are the batteries ie extra weight, mainly because of how much lower the boat will sit off the trailer (it's already low), so I expect Lithium batteries will be needed, which are way more expensive over standard. The motor will probably be a Lynch motor, lithium batteries will save on weight, more research needed re controller and any other components that will need to match up correctly
I would go for lithium too. More cost but so much weight and space saved, and better in every respect.Here are some Vetus links you might like to add to your research:
https://www.vetus.com/en/electric-propulsion-produ...
https://www.vetus.com/en/v-can
https://vetusonline.com/english/electricity-on-boa...
I remember now that they don't do lithium batteries, so you'd have to get those elsewhere.
One thing that killed Lynch for me was the control panel; it looked like a 1970's electronics project.
Good luck with the project and let us know how it goes
Let's see how things go
The YouTube link I saw above was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread.
I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
bucksmanuk said:
The YouTube link I saw above was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread.
I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
They seem to be happily recommended and sold though, eg: https://www.chandlerydirect.com/chandlery-store-uk...I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
Properly installed in a cruiser they'll get nowhere near water unless the boat is sinking, in which case you wouldn't be on it... Boat owners are used to be being blown up by petrol and Calor Gas so a bit of electricity is no problem
bucksmanuk said:
The YouTube link I saw above was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread.
I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
LiFePo cells do not suffer thermal runaway; they can be damaged by poor BMS/overcharging/over discharge, for the reassurance of those of a nervous disposition there are yootoob vids of cells having nails driven through them without going on fire, which contrasts well with Lipo cells.I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
Edited by hidetheelephants on Thursday 3rd February 22:42
bucksmanuk said:
The YouTube link I saw above was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread.
I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
I have an electric outboard on my tender by Torqeedo which has a lithium battery. Their entire range is powered by lithium so rest assured its an option for marine propulsion. I think a real issue with modern (read lithium) batteries is that lithium batteries go up an absolute treat when exposed to water, as they bring their own oxygen with them to the fire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery
However, Tesla batteries et al must have been tested to see how well they can go through a ford or some such. However, a great deal of money has been spent developing those to the point where they will cope with that. If someone is willing to engineer a marine specification system that will do the same – crack on.
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