Musing over buying an (expensive to me) boat- now or later?

[fat80b]

Now this definitely falls in to the bracket of crazy thinking but hear me out...there is a question at the end.

tl/dr - is now a good or a bad time to buy a boat ?

We as a family - myself, wife plus 6 and 8 y.o kids have for a number of years had the plan of sailing around the world. We are pretty serious about the plan but don't currently have a boat.

We follow a bunch of Youtubers (it looks easy right) and think that we can potentially structure our lives such that we can take maybe 3 or 4 years out - buy a boat, sail across a couple of oceans with the aim of a) not dying, and b) not killing each other, and then come back with enough time left to have a bit of a career left before we retire and do it all again.

In order to do this, we have been frantically saving and are maybe half way to our goal (or possibly a bit more if I count the TVR and M3 as part of the boat fund), and we are at the point where we *could* potentially fund buying the boat now-ish. The only problem then being that we wouldn't have the cash to actually set off (Hence being half way to the goal) and we'd have to pay to keep the boat in the meantime etc which potentially delays leaving. The benefit of course is that we get to use the boat now and can get it ready to depart in maybe 18 months time....


Question (finally) - During covid, apparently s/h boats got more expensive as people decided to check out of society and live for the now. My guess is that this might now be reversing and maybe it is a good time to buy a boat - equally maybe if we wait a year, it'll be even better - what do the good boating folks of PH think ?

Should we buy now and keep it local for a couple of years, or should we wait and save and buy in 18 month's time?

[bazza white]

I noticed last few weeks a fair few boats at decent prices coming up for sale after a drought. I put a cheeky offer in today on one actually. If your not used to sailing buying now and getting used the boat as well as 18months shakedown may be a good idea. swings and roundabouts tbh. Last boat I viewed was a week before the first lockdown.

[Bill]

My brother's currently in Fiji on his ocean going yacht and from what he's heard there's a massive pent up demand. That's obviously from NZ/Oz and to a degree the US rather than here, but I'd have thought the same pressures apply.

[Simpo Two]

fat80b said:

Question (finally) - During covid, apparently s/h boats got more expensive as people decided to check out of society and live for the now. My guess is that this might now be reversing and maybe it is a good time to buy a boat - equally maybe if we wait a year, it'll be even better - what do the good boating folks of PH think ?

Should we buy now and keep it local for a couple of years, or should we wait and save and buy in 18 month's time?

Boat prices certainly went up during Covid, but that was mostly because people couldn't fly to their usual holiday destination so they invested in a home alternative. I think prices will come back down this year, helped by people's disposable income reducing thanks to gas and oil prices.

Maybe prices will be lower in 2023 than 2022, who knows, but if you wait, that's a year of boating you've missed...

[NNK]

We made the decision to buy a boat and float around the South Pacific a couple of years ago (it had been an idea and then we were in Fiji and spoke to some yacht owners who made it sound great).
We spent the next few months researching and looking at yachts, it didnt take long to work out a few things.
Yachts are tiny
Sailing looked/sounded like hard work
We could afford diesel ! (although its going to be a worry if prices dont go down soon)

Right place/right time and we ended up with a catamran that had its sails removed & flybridge added.
We burn 8-10 L an hour at 7 or 8 knots depending on conditions. No race winner but we'll get there in comfort and (relative) safety.

It has been a long slog though, after 18 months of ownership we are just about ready to leave NZ for Fiji (May) and then we can chug from nation to nation as far as our 1500 mile range will alllow.

Anyway, my advice is do it now. Buy now, get it and yourselves ready and go when you can. Yachts will prob go up as fuel prices do, the only boats coming down will be big HP sport fishers and gin palaces.
Anything capable of crossing oceans at reasonable rates will go up.
I think we have spent almost the same as purchase price in renos/upgrades over ownership time but are very comfortable in doing the 1000 mile passage onbosrd.

[minipower]

fat80b said:

Question (finally) - During covid, apparently s/h boats got more expensive as people decided to check out of society and live for the now. My guess is that this might now be reversing and maybe it is a good time to buy a boat - equally maybe if we wait a year, it'll be even better - what do the good boating folks of PH think ?

Should we buy now and keep it local for a couple of years, or should we wait and save and buy in 18 month's time?

Having spoken to a few brokers in the last week, they’ve suggested prices are going up further. Limited supply and people who got into it over the last two years now wanting to upgrade. Whether that continues considering what is happening in the world is another matter.

You’ll find brokers often list sold boats but clear the price making it difficult to consider value. I’ve found a good way of getting round this is to search youtube as sale videos remain with prices. Some of the mark-ups compared to 4 years ago are eye watering!

[Simpo Two]

minipower said:

Having spoken to a few brokers in the last week, they’ve suggested prices are going up further.

Somebody trying to sell a boat is unlikely to say the value will fall...

minipower said:

You’ll find brokers often list sold boats but clear the price making it difficult to consider value. I’ve found a good way of getting round this is to search youtube as sale videos remain with prices. Some of the mark-ups compared to 4 years ago are eye watering!

The headline price won't tell you what it actually sold for though.

Special of the week though has to be a Fairline Mirage 29 centre cockpit for sale at £35K. Three years ago it would have been £25K!

[minipower]

Simpo Two said:

The headline price won't tell you what it actually sold for though.

Special of the week though has to be a Fairline Mirage 29 centre cockpit for sale at £35K. Three years ago it would have been £25K!

Good points. I’ll be more confident in seeing prices calming down when boats sit around for longer. Maybe that will happen with a surplus of boats coming out of winterisation and being listed.

Strong price for a Fairline 29 although nice solid boats. I tried to view a Sealine 360 Statesman at the weekend. Listed that morning at £92,500 and gone within the first hour at full price. That was a £75k boat 4 years ago and they are really starting to show their age now as well.

[PurpleTurtle]

What’s your plan for your kids’ education during this trip?

We’ve got a 7yo and I consider him far too young for this, but each to their own. I’d frankly be terrified of a child overboard situation, personally.

A mate of mine did this kind of trip with his wife and in-laws in his early 20’s, post university but before starting his career proper, he had a great time but was obviously a tad older. .

[fat80b]

PurpleTurtle said:

What’s your plan for your kids’ education during this trip?

We’ve got a 7yo and I consider him far too young for this, but each to their own. I’d frankly be terrified of a child overboard situation, personally.

It's not that unusual it turns out - there are many many families doing the same thing. Our education plan is home-schooling and we have looked into a bunch of online curriculum options. It helps that the wife is a teacher by vocation and while home-schooling your own kids is not easy (as we all learnt last year), it is something that can be done.

We have additional challenges in that one of the kids isn't doing that well in mainstream school so it's probably not going to be entirely straighforwards but it isn't going to be that easy on land for us either!.

[fat80b]

NNK said:

Anyway, my advice is do it now. Buy now, get it and yourselves ready and go when you can. Yachts will prob go up as fuel prices do, the only boats coming down will be big HP sport fishers and gin palaces.

Thanks - I think that is what we are leaning towards having discussed it over the last few days. Just need to get the broker to return my call

minipower said:

Having spoken to a few brokers in the last week, they’ve suggested prices are going up further.

It does look like my optimism that prices might flatten / go down was misguided and that prices are remaining high / getting higher - all this again points towards buying when we find the right boat being the plan.

Thanks everyone for the input so far. If I can get to view the boat we have seen, I'll provide an update.

[PurpleTurtle]

fat80b said:

PurpleTurtle said:

What’s your plan for your kids’ education during this trip?

We’ve got a 7yo and I consider him far too young for this, but each to their own. I’d frankly be terrified of a child overboard situation, personally.

It's not that unusual it turns out - there are many many families doing the same thing. Our education plan is home-schooling and we have looked into a bunch of online curriculum options. It helps that the wife is a teacher by vocation and while home-schooling your own kids is not easy (as we all learnt last year), it is something that can be done.

We have additional challenges in that one of the kids isn't doing that well in mainstream school so it's probably not going to be entirely straighforwards but it isn't going to be that easy on land for us either!.

Cool, good luck. If that works for you then it should be an excellent adventure for them, far more exciting and character building for them than the regular trudge to the local primary school every day, rinse and repeat.

I'm sure that if it all gets a bit fraught below decks you'll be able to find some important deck-varnishing or similar to occupy you!

[Arnold Cunningham]

If you're nervous about the current state of world affairs, now would be a great time to buy. If things get too tense, you can just sail off to somewhere a bit more peaceful.

But. My friend is married to one of the girls who was on board this yacht : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rescued-Canberra-sailing-...
When I asked her about living on the boat she said she spent much of her childhood (on the yacht) st scared whenever they did a big crossing.
Her dad was loving it - but it wasn't her choice of childhood. She doesn't sail any more.

And I have another couple of friends who have done a transatlantic (both ways) in their 40' yacht.
I understand they got caught in a bit of a nasty storm mid atlantic and had a close call broaching the boat once or twice.

So.....if you do it...design it carefully to not just be about you, but also be something the kids will enjoy, and make sure you always give yourself plenty of time to reschedule or find safe harbour from storms.

I spent a lot of childhood time on a yacht - one of my youngest memories is getting caught in a storm in the north sea (going across to Ostend I think) and just seeing these walls of water coming towards us - and then being caught on the windward side of a rocks somewhere and fighting to get past them without getting blown on to them. I have a bit of a phobia about wrecks and rocks these days as a consequence. (It's fine, I manage it, but my sphincter still quivers if I'm in visual range of bembridge ledge, for example). I like a good 10M of water under me at all times and I don't like yachts any more. We thought about getting one as a mobile caravan on the south coast a couple of years back and....while I still love being on and by the water......I didn't want to put my own kids through the same "ordeal" I did. The good times were amazing, but the st times were really really st.

So remember your "challenge" and "lifestyle choices" will affect your kids for the rest of their lives....design it carefully so that they enjoy it as much as you do.

Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 10th March 15:34

[pequod]

Well done OP, a wonderful experience lies over the horizon.

A question though, if I may, what sailing experience do you and the family have, as you didn't say in your opening post? Are you good at DIY, as there will be a lot of it unless you have a bottomless pit of money, and the old adage 'fixing boats in exotic places' is still relevant as parts alone will sometimes (mostly) take your breath away!

Further, I might suggest a starting point elsewhere where blue water yachts are more plentiful and costs are possibly less? The journey beginning in a pleasant warm and easier location (season dependant) might smooth the family into the plan?

[fat80b]

pequod said:

Well done OP, a wonderful experience lies over the horizon.
A question though, if I may, what sailing experience do you and the family have, as you didn't say in your opening post?

A good an obvious question and the answer is truthfully (and probably obviously) - Not enough - We (I+wife) have spent several weeks on boats having done courses and flotillas and friends boats etc, but obviously having not actually owned one, we almost by definition don't have the requisite experience.

This itself points towards - starting local and somewhat slower rather than throwing ourselves in at the deep end so to speak

pequod said:

Are you good at DIY, as there will be a lot of it unless you have a bottomless pit of money, and the old adage 'fixing boats in exotic places' is still relevant as parts alone will sometimes (mostly) take your breath away!

I *think* so - We do a lot of home DIY, cars and home stuff and started life as an electronics engineer. Whilst I know I don't know enough of the specifics of what we will need to do, I am confident that I should be able to do most of it myself rather than have to pay to have work done. But our budget does include a proportion of expected boat maintenance.

pequod said:

Further, I might suggest a starting point elsewhere where blue water yachts are more plentiful and costs are possibly less? The journey beginning in a pleasant warm and easier location (season dependant) might smooth the family into the plan?

Would love to - and the truth is that the types of boats we are looking at do already tend to be in those locations. e.g. French Poly.

That said, the "dream" is to wally round the med for a bit, get to the Canaries and do the ARC with other families on a Nov departure. This lends itself to finding a boat in Europe (vat paid) to start with - It doesn't have to but it does feel like the "easier" choice.

That's why when we spotted the boat that might be close to being the one in the UK it triggered the conversation of "is now the right time"?

It's all a bit moot at the moment because the broker hasn't responded (boat is on Apollo Duck and there is no tel no) so perhaps it doesn't actually exist..... This one - https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/fountaine-paj...

[pequod]

fat80b said:

pequod said:

Well done OP, a wonderful experience lies over the horizon.
A question though, if I may, what sailing experience do you and the family have, as you didn't say in your opening post?

A good an obvious question and the answer is truthfully (and probably obviously) - Not enough - We (I+wife) have spent several weeks on boats having done courses and flotillas and friends boats etc, but obviously having not actually owned one, we almost by definition don't have the requisite experience.

This itself points towards - starting local and somewhat slower rather than throwing ourselves in at the deep end so to speak

pequod said:

Are you good at DIY, as there will be a lot of it unless you have a bottomless pit of money, and the old adage 'fixing boats in exotic places' is still relevant as parts alone will sometimes (mostly) take your breath away!

I *think* so - We do a lot of home DIY, cars and home stuff and started life as an electronics engineer. Whilst I know I don't know enough of the specifics of what we will need to do, I am confident that I should be able to do most of it myself rather than have to pay to have work done. But our budget does include a proportion of expected boat maintenance.

pequod said:

Further, I might suggest a starting point elsewhere where blue water yachts are more plentiful and costs are possibly less? The journey beginning in a pleasant warm and easier location (season dependant) might smooth the family into the plan?

Would love to - and the truth is that the types of boats we are looking at do already tend to be in those locations. e.g. French Poly.

That said, the "dream" is to wally round the med for a bit, get to the Canaries and do the ARC with other families on a Nov departure. This lends itself to finding a boat in Europe (vat paid) to start with - It doesn't have to but it does feel like the "easier" choice.

That's why when we spotted the boat that might be close to being the one in the UK it triggered the conversation of "is now the right time"?

It's all a bit moot at the moment because the broker hasn't responded (boat is on Apollo Duck and there is no tel no) so perhaps it doesn't actually exist..... This one - https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/fountaine-paj...

Learning on the job is a risk, but many a sailor set off with less experience than you, and survived, so I wouldn't discount your ability to achieve your ambition. Usually the most dangerous bit of floating around in a boat is the time when you are close to land, maybe without pilotage info, and a need to make landfall due to weather or otherwise, and unseen rocks/reefs cam catch out even the most experienced without very careful approach. But then I digress...

The Med will give you a good opportunity to find out whether or not you and the crew are suited to extended life aboard, albeit we Brits (and other non EU citizens) are restricted to 90/180 day regs. Why not charter an older boat for 3 months and see how you get on? Better find out before you buy?

That Apollo Duck advert isn't a broker's offering and I would be very cautious....

HTH

[Arnold Cunningham]

Absolutely lovely catamaran, BTW.

[Bill]

AIUI over 40ft brings mooring issues and extra expense in the Med.

[pequod]

Bill said:

AIUI over 40ft brings mooring issues and extra expense in the Med.

Not so much the length, but a beam of +7 metres is going to be a challenge, and potentially v. costly in the Med, if you want to walk ashore, and with limited/no experience of handling a largish Cat in small crowded harbours, these boats are not for the faint-hearted.

Catamarans offer wonderful accommodation but are designed, IMHO, for going to places other than the charming small harbours in the Med or around the world.

[Jaguar steve]

Bill said:

AIUI over 40ft brings mooring issues and extra expense in the Med.

We've paid between 50 to 60 Euro a night for a 40ft yacht in Croatian marinas. There's also an Increasing proliferation of mooring buoys that you'll be charged 20-30 Euro to use in bays that were previously free to anchor in.

That's bearable for a fortnights holiday but for a whole summer of cruising it's gonna be a huge expense.