Happy 70th birthday B52.

[Dr Jekyll]

When it first flew a 20 year old bomber design would have been obsolete and I doubt anyone expected them to be still operational in 30 years, never mind 70.

[Zebedee22]

Still be flying in another 20 years as well, imagine getting that much life out of a Lancaster or something else from that era..

[andyA700]

Zebedee22 said:

Still be flying in another 20 years as well, imagine getting that much life out of a Lancaster or something else from that era..

Funny you should say that, because this is in the air over Essex at the moment. It flew down to the RAF memorial at Dover earlier.

https://warbirdaviation.co.uk/Profiles/hawker-hurr...

[Simpo Two]

Zebedee22 said:

Still be flying in another 20 years as well, imagine getting that much life out of a Lancaster or something else from that era..

If jet engines hadn't been invented, maybe you would... And WW2 aircraft were used in continuous combat conditions so wore out quickly, whereas post-war aircraft were mostly at peace so used less.

[Dr Jekyll]

Simpo Two said:

Zebedee22 said:

Still be flying in another 20 years as well, imagine getting that much life out of a Lancaster or something else from that era..

If jet engines hadn't been invented, maybe you would... And WW2 aircraft were used in continuous combat conditions so wore out quickly, whereas post-war aircraft were mostly at peace so used less.

DC3s are still in use after 85 years, I think the youngest one is about 77.

[Defcon5]

How much of them will be original?

[Richie Slow]

Interesting that the DC3 and B52 stand out as examples of longevity. The 707 and F15 didn't do too shabbily either.

The modern generation , A380, F35, 777 are already looking like they have a limited lifespan.

[Tony1963]

Defcon5 said:

How much of them will be original?

At the very least, the main spars.

However, that’s not the point really. The ‘idea’ behind the B-52 still works and is still feared. It is adorned with defence aids that weren’t even imagined 70 years ago, and new ideas will continue to be at least considered for adding to this incredible aircraft.

[Equus]

Simpo Two said:

If jet engines hadn't been invented, maybe you would...

It's interesting to speculate where that might have led.

The Lancaster and even its replacement, the Lincoln, was already obsolete at the end of the war - it's inconceivable that they wouldn't have been replaced by something with more powerful engines, pressurised crew compartment and nuclear capabillity, along the lines of the B29 or B36 Peacemaker - but there was a lot further to go with piston engine design even then.

We're still increasing the fuel efficiency and power output of piston engines now, and that will only stop because of electrification. We're getting Merlin-like power outputs from 8-litre car engines, these days, so what sort of power would we have been getting from military-specification engines potentially 10 times the size?

The other question, I guess, is that if you're limited to subsonic speeds due to the limitations of a propeller, what would you do with the acheivable power? Bigger? More heavily armed/armoured? Or would we have reached a plateau not much past the B36?

[Simpo Two]

Equus said:

We're still increasing the fuel efficiency and power output of piston engines now, and that will only stop because of electrification. We're getting Merlin-like power outputs from 8-litre car engines, these days, so what sort of power would we have been getting from military-specification engines potentially 10 times the size?

The other question, I guess, is that if you're limited to subsonic speeds due to the limitations of a propeller, what would you do with the acheivable power? Bigger? More heavily armed/armoured? Or would we have reached a plateau not much past the B36?

Interesting that if dependent on props, the sound barrier is truly a barrier. So with the extra power, if not spent on speed, then I think payload - either bombload or fuel for greater range.

I wonder if there would be propeller-powered missiles, eg a 'ground-to-air torpedo'? Not much of a leap from a drone.

Or would there be a way to connect a piston engine to thrust without using a propeller?

[Tony1963]

How on Earth would propeller-driven missiles come about??
Rocket power predates the piston engine by many years!

[Simpo Two]

Tony1963 said:

How on Earth would propeller-driven missiles come about??
Rocket power predates the piston engine by many years!

It's an 'HG Wellsian' vision. And if you take a modern prop drone and put explosives in the front, you have not only a propeller-driven missile, but a guided one.

The question, which I accept is nothing to do with B52s, is on new technologies and whether or not they'd have been invented. So perhaps we'd have gone from piston a/c to rocket a/c... but rockets don't seem to be suitable for what you might call 'sensible' flight. Anyway, back to the plot

[Equus]

Simpo Two said:

So perhaps we'd have gone from piston a/c to rocket a/c... but rockets don't seem to be suitable for what you might call 'sensible' flight.

My first thought was that it woould leave you with prop-driven bombers vs. rocket interceptors. We never really got to see how that one played out with the ME163 and Bachem Natter, but if it they had been around in sufficient numbers it may well have been that strategic bombers became too vulnerable.

...But then that doesn't seem to have stopped the B52, which is almost equally vulnerable to fighters, from finding a role.

[Eric Mc]

Don't forget that of the 800 odd B-52 airframes manufactured, only around 70 remain in service.

I picked up this book last weekend -



It only covers the A to F variants (all now retired) so I expect that there will be a second volume coming along eventually which will cover the G and H models.

All the remaining operational B-52s are H models.

[Jimbo.]

Eric Mc said:

Don't forget that of the 800 odd B-52 airframes manufactured, only around 70 remain in service.

I picked up this book last weekend -



It only covers the A to F variants (all now retired) so I expect that there will be a second volume coming along eventually which will cover the G and H models.

All the remaining operational B-52s are H models.

Re. numbers remaining in service, how many of those were retired/scrapped under the US-Soviet/Russian arms reduction agreements (START?) as opposed to obsolescence, being lived-out etc?

EDIT: that aside, you’ve got to hand it to some very clever men and women with nothing but drawing boards, pencils behind their ears and perhaps the most rudimentary of computers!

[Simpo Two]

Jimbo. said:

EDIT: that aside, you’ve got to hand it to some very clever men and women with nothing but drawing boards, pencils behind their ears and perhaps the most rudimentary of computers!

Like the Saturn V, and the Merlin, and indeed everything for most of history.

[andyA700]

There are a few here in the ultimate "boneyard". Davis-Monahan AFB, Tucson, Arizona.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.1571309,-110.83080...

[Eric Mc]

Jimbo. said:

Re. numbers remaining in service, how many of those were retired/scrapped under the US-Soviet/Russian arms reduction agreements (START?) as opposed to obsolescence, being lived-out etc?

Different versions were retired at different times for different reasons.

The A, B, C and E models were built in very small numbers and virtually all of those had gone by 1966. On A and one B were kept in service at Edwards Air Force Base for research projects such as the X-15 rocket research planes and the lifting body programme. One of the pair was in use up until 2004.

The main production variants were the D, F, G and H. The Ds and Fs were used extensively in Vietnam and there was a mass retirement of these when the conflict ended in 1975. The Gs were kept in service into the early 90s and it was these that were chiefly retired due to the SALT talks.

[anonymous-user]

These amaze me. Entered service in 1953 I think it was and scheduled to run until 2050! Absolutely staggering. My only regret is that I've never seen one flying. Same with the B2, and I suspect time is running out for that now.

[Eric Mc]

Although the prototypes first flew in 1952, I don't think the B-52 entered service until 1955.

The two prototypes had a very different cockpit arrangement.