Marina and shore power
Discussion
Slightly unusual one this. I'm just about to pay a chunk of money for a pre-payment card, to keep my boat happy over the winter. I plan to add plenty so I don't have to worry about the power running out in a blizzard in January when I can't visit it.
Previous marinas have either used payment in arrears, or refund any unused credit in the spring. However with this marina, I've e-mailed the owner three times about the refund procedure, and got no reply. That puts my warning light on. The person who manages the cards says they haven't come across a refund being made. I also heard a fellow berth-holder saying somebody left and didn't get their credit back.
What's the legality of the marina simply keeping the money? There's nothing in writing between us.
Previous marinas have either used payment in arrears, or refund any unused credit in the spring. However with this marina, I've e-mailed the owner three times about the refund procedure, and got no reply. That puts my warning light on. The person who manages the cards says they haven't come across a refund being made. I also heard a fellow berth-holder saying somebody left and didn't get their credit back.
What's the legality of the marina simply keeping the money? There's nothing in writing between us.
Simpo Two said:
Slightly unusual one this. I'm just about to pay a chunk of money for a pre-payment card, to keep my boat happy over the winter. I plan to add plenty so I don't have to worry about the power running out in a blizzard in January when I can't visit it.
Previous marinas have either used payment in arrears, or refund any unused credit in the spring. However with this marina, I've e-mailed the owner three times about the refund procedure, and got no reply. That puts my warning light on. The person who manages the cards says they haven't come across a refund being made. I also heard a fellow berth-holder saying somebody left and didn't get their credit back.
What's the legality of the marina simply keeping the money? There's nothing in writing between us.
If the bold bit is what I think you mean, then the owner of this 'marina' can do what they like and you have some odd reason for being there without a written agreement? Previous marinas have either used payment in arrears, or refund any unused credit in the spring. However with this marina, I've e-mailed the owner three times about the refund procedure, and got no reply. That puts my warning light on. The person who manages the cards says they haven't come across a refund being made. I also heard a fellow berth-holder saying somebody left and didn't get their credit back.
What's the legality of the marina simply keeping the money? There's nothing in writing between us.
Nothing odd, I simply moved from one marina to another in September for a change of scenery.
The new marina had a space available, so I went to see it, decided to take it and they sent me an invoice for mooring until 31 Dec which I've paid.
What doesn't exist is any small print about how shore power is handled. With other marinas you take the card with unused credit back to the office and they put it back on your payment card.
The new marina had a space available, so I went to see it, decided to take it and they sent me an invoice for mooring until 31 Dec which I've paid.
What doesn't exist is any small print about how shore power is handled. With other marinas you take the card with unused credit back to the office and they put it back on your payment card.
I don't know how it works on inland waterways but in coastal marinas you are either an annual berthholder with a written contract and explicit rates for services provided, including electricity at a metered rate (you have to buy a metered cable), or you are a visitor paying either a day rate or other temporary periods to berth (winter berth for example) and the rate normally includes electricity.
Can't you simply buy a prepayment card for electricity for the next three months and see how much you've used? Assuming you have a small power consumption (dehumidifier and battery charger?) it is not too difficult to estimate what you need to add for the next few months beyond the New Year!
Can't you simply buy a prepayment card for electricity for the next three months and see how much you've used? Assuming you have a small power consumption (dehumidifier and battery charger?) it is not too difficult to estimate what you need to add for the next few months beyond the New Year!
pequod said:
Can't you simply buy a prepayment card for electricity for the next three months and see how much you've used? Assuming you have a small power consumption (dehumidifier and battery charger?) it is not too difficult to estimate what you need to add for the next few months beyond the New Year!
Thanks. Well frankly I'm not sure how much power it will use because it's weather-dependent. Two oil-filled radiators on thermostats and three batteries to keep charged - might be £40, might be £200...What I'm really after here is input on the legal side - in other words, can a company take money for electricity but not supply it? For example, I know they can only charge the official rate per unit (no mark-ups) and their profit is from the standing charge. I sense the company is a little bit 'shifty'.
When my boat was in a marina, the payment cards were not refundable, the meters didn't work like that.
I think there was about £4 of credit when I moved in and £6 when I moved out.
I reckon I used about £2 for tools and battery charging and someone stole the rest of my tenner's worth.
Best to visit often and not put much credit on.
I think there was about £4 of credit when I moved in and £6 when I moved out.
I reckon I used about £2 for tools and battery charging and someone stole the rest of my tenner's worth.
Best to visit often and not put much credit on.
OutInTheShed said:
Best to visit often and not put much credit on.
Unfortunately the boat is 62 miles away and if there's snow I can't get the car out of the drive or down/up the hill to visit it. I like to keep the boat operational all year so power is essential to stop the engine's heat exchanger freezing and breaking. It mustn't run out if the weather drops below freezing.Badda said:
If there’s no contract regarding the electricity it’s going to be be awkward legally isn’t it, should you need to recover any?
I’d just whack £50 a time on it and top up accordingly, assuming you get notified promptly when it’s flat.
You're right, credit could be left on the card until next winter (I don't use shore power otherwise). But one day I'll want to move marinas again; I don't see why they should they keep unused credit. Nobody will notify me of anything; not much goes on there in the winter and the owners never visit.I’d just whack £50 a time on it and top up accordingly, assuming you get notified promptly when it’s flat.
In 12 years of boat ownership it's the first time this problem has arisen. I've left a message for the owners so we'll see if they call back.
Update - apparently the shore power system they use doesn't have a refund facility, so you can't put the card in the slot and get the credit transferred back.
This means the marina gets paid in full, but never gives any back, seemingly because they can't, so presumably when people move their boat elsewhere, they lose and the marina wins. Over the years there must be thousands of poundsworth of unused credit accumulated...
This means the marina gets paid in full, but never gives any back, seemingly because they can't, so presumably when people move their boat elsewhere, they lose and the marina wins. Over the years there must be thousands of poundsworth of unused credit accumulated...
Simpo Two said:
Update - apparently the shore power system they use doesn't have a refund facility, so you can't put the card in the slot and get the credit transferred back.
This means the marina gets paid in full, but never gives any back, seemingly because they can't, so presumably when people move their boat elsewhere, they lose and the marina wins. Over the years there must be thousands of poundsworth of unused credit accumulated...
That's how it was at the marina I used.This means the marina gets paid in full, but never gives any back, seemingly because they can't, so presumably when people move their boat elsewhere, they lose and the marina wins. Over the years there must be thousands of poundsworth of unused credit accumulated...
The marina didn't gain (apart from profit on the cost per unit) but the next occupant of the berth did.
The card in the slot prepaid the meter, like shoving 50p in, back in the old days.
All I can suggest is being sparing with the heating and maybe some sort of remote monitoring?
You can get quite advanced SMS monitoring systems.
You can improvise. We used to joke about leaving an old mobile phone on the cabin floor, then when you phone the mobile, either the boat's filling with water or the power's been off a while.
Alternatively there's a thing called guardinage or something which means bunging someone a tenner now and them to keep an eye on things.
The bloke living on his boat three down from mine phoned me when I needed to go look, I gave him a bottle of gin.
In my 20s, I was on the other side of the deal and I took cash not gin, we had a different name for it then, not allowed to call it that any more!
Simpo Two said:
Update - apparently the shore power system they use doesn't have a refund facility, so you can't put the card in the slot and get the credit transferred back.
This means the marina gets paid in full, but never gives any back, seemingly because they can't, so presumably when people move their boat elsewhere, they lose and the marina wins. Over the years there must be thousands of poundsworth of unused credit accumulated...
The marina I used to work at had two systems. Cardboard pre-paid electric cards which couldn’t be refunded and a newer plastic smart card system which allowed unused credit to be transferred back to the card and in theory refunded - however the manager didn’t like the idea of refunding customers unused electric and would tell them it couldn’t be done. Both were Rolec systems This means the marina gets paid in full, but never gives any back, seemingly because they can't, so presumably when people move their boat elsewhere, they lose and the marina wins. Over the years there must be thousands of poundsworth of unused credit accumulated...
Personally I found the main issues to be other people plugging into 'my' meter and random tripping of the supply.
Generally it has to be quite cold for quite a long time for an engine or water system inside a boat afloat to freeze.
Boats out of the water, more of a problem.
Cheap battery chargers and dehumidifirers which don't re-start when the power comes back on are also common moans when a boat is left for a while.
Then there's the OMG where did my anodes/props go?
Generally it has to be quite cold for quite a long time for an engine or water system inside a boat afloat to freeze.
Boats out of the water, more of a problem.
Cheap battery chargers and dehumidifirers which don't re-start when the power comes back on are also common moans when a boat is left for a while.
Then there's the OMG where did my anodes/props go?
Thanks folks. I've spoken to the person who actually puts the credit on the cards and issues them (not the manager) and she says it can't be done because the posts don't have the button that allows unused credit to be put back on the card - it stays in the post. Once the credit is on the card that's it.
She suggested I could have two cards, say £75 on each, and see how it goes, with any *unused* cards being creditable.
It's a bit of a faff because it means I can't just 'fill and forget', but will need to go up to keep an eye on consumption. Ah well.
I like the idea of a 'watcher' - if it was the owner that would be OK, probably, but I wouldn't trust some random from a liveaboard.
The marina says they have plans to replace the card system with something in arrears (ideal) but knowing them it will take 10 years...
She suggested I could have two cards, say £75 on each, and see how it goes, with any *unused* cards being creditable.
It's a bit of a faff because it means I can't just 'fill and forget', but will need to go up to keep an eye on consumption. Ah well.
I like the idea of a 'watcher' - if it was the owner that would be OK, probably, but I wouldn't trust some random from a liveaboard.
The marina says they have plans to replace the card system with something in arrears (ideal) but knowing them it will take 10 years...
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