Train driver minimum age lowered to 18

[LunarOne]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2w2prj470o

Apparently the minumum age to become a train driver has been lowered to 18 to address driver shortages. Yet I was under the impression that it was a fairly attractive profession as it seems quite well-paid and I'm sure there were lots of applicants. I'm sure that driving a train attracts a certain kind of person who is likely to be more deliberate and thoughtful and less reckless than average. And the article states that research had been done to ensure that it would be safe. But it's widely known that people's attitude to risk continues to change and people don't fully mature in that respect until their mid 20s.

Do you think lowering the age to 20 is a good idea or is it a disaster waiting to happen?

[MarkwG]

It's probably a bit of a red herring anyway: it takes between 12 & 24 months to learn to drive a train, so the youngest someone is likely to be is 19. The assessment & vetting process is thorough, so if they've passed all the proficiency requirements, why not.

[matchmaker]

You can also start training to become a commercial or RAF pilot at 18.

[demic]

Still doesn’t address the chronic shortage of instructors and assessors required to get all these trainees passed out and driving.

[C5_Steve]

demic said:

Still doesn’t address the chronic shortage of instructors and assessors required to get all these trainees passed out and driving.

That would make sense, I've a friend who's interested in moving into this and the job adverts are few and far between and always massively popular. I didn't think there was really a shortage based on age restriction tbh.

I did read the average age is 47 though, which is probably an issue coming around pretty soon.

[Chrisgr31]

The bigger issue is the ability to actually train drivers isnt it? There also seems to be an issue that GTR or whoever train drivers, they do their required time and then get poached by other companies.

I know that shortly before Covid were training record numbers of drivers and got to full complement, however it all seems to have gone wrong since.

The age profile is definitely not great with lots due to retire shortly but I am not sure the age of starting to train is the real issue.

[Vasco]

Many people will still consider the training periods to be far too long. The Unions rarely budge from their historoc ant- attitide but there's little reason why quieter, rural, lines can't start the newer drivers off.

[demic]

Vasco said:

Many people will still consider the training periods to be far too long. The Unions rarely budge from their historoc ant- attitide but there's little reason why quieter, rural, lines can't start the newer drivers off.

At my TOC our Operations Standards Department decided to change how trainees amassed their hours towards the total needed to pass out. It went from any hours in charge of a train counted towards the total to only hours driven on their core route (the route they would sign when passing out), thus in a pen stroke massively increasing the time taken to qualify. Nothing to do with “Unions”

Rural lines are often much harder to learn. Less landmarks to rely on when driving in poor visibility, lots more crossing to remember (AHBs, User worked etc), Absolute Block signalling or Token working is common with often “quirks” to deal with from when BR rationalised the track layout and signaling however many years ago. Don’t forget you’ve then still got to train these new drivers on the more intense routes eventually.

[ChocolateFrog]

I'm deeply suspicious of the stats in that article. 87% of day before cancellations is because of a lack of drivers.

I just don't believe it. Bar the odd day in the year there's always drivers who have made themselves available for rest day work and Spare drivers are rostered into the day to cover for last minute absences. The real figure from what I see everyday is more like 10-20% at most.

As for the 18yo. Is the age really a problem? Is there a dearth of people available to work 35hrs a week for £80k, is there fk, they close the applications after a few days because there's too many to sift through.

Recruitment is there or thereabouts, maybe a bit thin in the height of summer but I doubt their aim is to have a surplus of drivers for the other 46 weeks of the year.

From what I've heard from training school, they're pushing to lower the entry standard, apparently more women fail the psychometric tests than men and they can't massage the results, it's pass or fail.

Despite the age limit being 20 previously, 24 was the youngest driver I actually know when they started. Quite a few of us came onto the railway with a decent degree and a decade or more of advantageous employment. You'd have to be an exceptional 18yo to standout IMO.

Whole thing is very odd though. Lowering the age will do nothing on its own.

[Dingu]

Vasco said:

Many people will still consider the training periods to be far too long. The Unions rarely budge from their historoc ant- attitide but there's little reason why quieter, rural, lines can't start the newer drivers off.

Many people won’t have any idea about it. Much like most things.

[ChocolateFrog]

Vasco said:

Many people will still consider the training periods to be far too long. The Unions rarely budge from their historoc ant- attitide but there's little reason why quieter, rural, lines can't start the newer drivers off.

Blasting up and down the East Coast Mainline is a lot easier and less taxing than a rural stopper service FYI.

[the-norseman]

I was on a cab ride today with a driver who has driver TOC and now FOC and mentioned this to him, I've also been doing a driver rules course recently.

The consciousness is age isn't an issue, its the willingness to learn and accept your wrong when you are wrong. The driver rules teacher says he sees some brilliant drivers come through but some have the wrong attitude and end up being dangerous because of it.

[Mercdriver]

Try the rail.uk forum for an idea how difficult the selection process is. They know exactly what type of person they need.

[48k]

matchmaker said:

You can also start training to become a commercial or RAF pilot at 18.

And they have to do up and down AND left and right not just go and stop!

[Vasco]

Dingu said:

Vasco said:

Many people will still consider the training periods to be far too long. The Unions rarely budge from their historoc ant- attitide but there's little reason why quieter, rural, lines can't start the newer drivers off.

Many people won’t have any idea about it. Much like most things.

Standard RMT reponsue.

[Dingu]

Vasco said:

Dingu said:

Vasco said:

Many people will still consider the training periods to be far too long. The Unions rarely budge from their historoc ant- attitide but there's little reason why quieter, rural, lines can't start the newer drivers off.

Many people won’t have any idea about it. Much like most things.

Standard RMT reponsue.

Amuse us with your qualifications.

[MB140]

demic said:

Still doesn’t address the chronic shortage of instructors and assessors required to get all these trainees passed out and driving.

Friend of mine became a train driver after leaving the RAF, finally got qualified and jacked it in saying it’s the most bored he’s ever been in his life. I understand it’s quite a well paid job so I suppose it must have been awful.

[demic]

MB140 said:

Friend of mine became a train driver after leaving the RAF, finally got qualified and jacked it in saying it’s the most bored he’s ever been in his life. I understand it’s quite a well paid job so I suppose it must have been awful.

If it’s exciting then you’re doing something badly wrong or something has gone badly wrong.

Boring is good. Boring means the train doesn’t think it’s on fire, there no piss head trying to kick down your cab door, there’s no one trying to kill you by lobbing bricks at your windscreen etc

[Tisy]

How do you (as train steerers) get your head around blasting along a main line track at 100 mph in thick fog in the middle of the night when you can't see more than 100 ft in front of you (even without the fog to be fair) and if something has fallen on the track, like a truck off a bridge or a fallen tree in windy weather, when you hit it, that it's instant death for you ? At least if you're driving on road in thick fog, you have control of your speed and can go at whatever speed you feel comfy with.

I've watched the Hindu Cowgirl youtube channel who does "dashcam" videos from the train, blasting across Norway at 200 mph smashing through big snow drifts and can't even see the rails for much of it. She seems completely unfazed by it but I'd be crapping myself!

[Evanivitch]

Mercdriver said:

Try the rail.uk forum for an idea how difficult the selection process is. They know exactly what type of person they need.

I love the idea in the rail community that train drivers are all super humans. They're not. Massively over inflated egos backed by a strong union.