Russians blocking plane GPS

[gusko]

Today in the Bulgarian news is a story that originates from the financial times that Ursala von der Layens planes GPS was interfered with by the Russians as it came into land at Plovdiv airport .

The story says he circled for an hour before he landed using paper maps.

https://www.24chasa.bg/mezhdunarodni/article/21207...

How dangerous and how frequently does this type of event occur?

Any experts /pilots have an experiience of this , the landing , not trying to kill the head of the European union

[paulrockliffe]

Has been happening for years, mostly using kit in Kaliningrad. Russia lie about the things they do and Western Politicians simply do not know how to deal with someone telling barefaced lies, so they get away with this and all the other bullst, such as paying people to set fire to factories.

[IanH755]

Happening for at least a decade in an "obvious but what are going to do about...........nothing" manner with some far subtler stuff stretching back to Bosnia in the late 90's that I know of.

However general electronic interference, not GPS, has been a well used tool by the Russians/Soviets against Western countries since the Berlin Air lift, where they interfered with nav beacons in an attempt to make planes go into Soviet airspace so they could "legally" shoot them down, which luckily never happened.

[Eric Mc]

IanH755 said:

Happening for at least a decade in an "obvious but what are going to do about...........nothing" manner with some far subtler stuff stretching back to Bosnia in the late 90's that I know of.

However general electronic interference, not GPS, has been a well used tool by the Russians/Soviets against Western countries since the Berlin Air lift, where they interfered with nav beacons in an attempt to make planes go into Soviet airspace so they could "legally" shoot them down, which luckily never happened.

I think a number of Western aircraft were attacked and shot down during the Cold War. There was a very narrow air corridor connecting Berlin to West Germany and aircraft coming in from the West had to adhere to this corridor. If they strayed away they were liable to being shot down.

[Krikkit]

paulrockliffe said:

Has been happening for years, mostly using kit in Kaliningrad. Russia lie about the things they do and Western Politicians simply do not know how to deal with someone telling barefaced lies, so they get away with this and all the other bullst, such as paying people to set fire to factories.

Realistically though, how do you deal with it beyond what they've already done? Everyone knows they're full of lies, and the whole world has the data about where the GPS jamming originates from.

[Simpo Two]

Krikkit said:

Realistically though, how do you deal with it beyond what they've already done?

Invade, conquer, get it over with. But Napoleon and Hitler failed so I don't suppose we have much chance.

[havoc]

Simpo Two said:

Krikkit said:

Realistically though, how do you deal with it beyond what they've already done?

Invade, conquer, get it over with. But Napoleon and Hitler failed so I don't suppose we have much chance.

Sanctions. Proper ones, not the bullst that Trump's been pedalling this year.

They WERE working - Trump has just given the Russian economy an 11th hour lifeline.

Sure China and India could probably prop up the Russian economy for a bit longer, but it'd still hurt. And rich Russians aren't liking being hurt in the wallet, and what passes for Russia's middle classes even less-so.

Make the sanctions run beyond simple economic ones too - travel bans on Russian politicians, detention of any Russian illegals captured, using terrorism charges to hold them (i.e. indefinite detention while we work out what to do with them), seizure of state and individual assets, etc.


If a country can't comply with the routine norms of international behaviour, then exclude them from as much international behaviour as you can. They've been waging asymmetric warfare with us for well over a decade and we've all been too weak to respond.

[Countdown]

Not my area of expertise but aren't they able to use VOR / DME / NDPB for navigation?

[mikef]

Well yes, but then you need the airfield charts referred to (as "paper maps")

I'm guessing most airline pilots haven't done an NDB/DME approach in a while (standing by to be corrected by a current airline jockey)

[Simpo Two]

havoc said:

If a country can't comply with the routine norms of international behaviour, then exclude them from as much international behaviour as you can. They've been waging asymmetric warfare with us for well over a decade and we've all been too weak to respond.

Thing is, they're not interested in 'norms of international behaviour'; they do things how they want. The only country they respect is China.

[Countdown]

mikef said:

Well yes, but then you need the airfield charts referred to (as "paper maps")

I'm guessing most airline pilots haven't done an NDB/DME approach in a while (standing by to be corrected by a current airline jockey)

Me too

My understanding (from literally days of playing FS98) is that you use VOR/DME to get close to an airport and then ATC guide it down (they might tell it to HOLD at a certain point, then fly in a certain direction to intercept the ILS and then follow the ILS down to the runway.)

[andybebop]

Whilst many aircraft crashed during the Berlin airlift I don't believe any were as the result of enemy action.

[hidetheelephants]

Anecdotally at least, there was a bit of 'bumping' in the air corridor.

[GliderRider]

Eric Mc said:

I think a number of Western aircraft were attacked and shot down during the Cold War. There was a very narrow air corridor connecting Berlin to West Germany and aircraft coming in from the West had to adhere to this corridor. If they strayed away they were liable to being shot down.

You are right Eric Mc. The Avro Lincoln was in the Hamburg-Berlin corridor, plus there was a T-39 Sabreliner which reads to me that it had a pressurisation failure and wandered off into East German territory before being shot down.