PPL Help

[BigGingerBob]

Hi everyone,

To give you the full picture, I've wanted to fly since I was 5. Unfortunately I wasn't able to pursue commercial flying for financial reasons so I thought that one day I would get my PPL.

I am now lucky enough to be in the position to get my PPL as I have the money allocated to do it... I just need the time!

Now, the help I need. I'm slightly concerned about the cost and difficulty in maintaining a license, I have two very young kids and a normal job where £200 an hour to hire a plane is a lot!

Is it as costly as I'm making it out to be? Am I right in thinking that if the license lapses then I can do some training (10 hours I believe) to reinstate?

I want to get the license whilst I have the money allocated, like I did with my motorbike license, I'm just worried that I might as well set fire to £15k.

Or do I just do it anyway and find the money by any means?

PPL holders, please advise and tell me how great it is! Haha!

[hidetheelephants]

Gliding is a lot cheaper, microlights somewhat cheaper; aviation costs a lot and in the UK the weather often sticks its oar in and disrupts training. There's some merit to doing "zero to hero" somewhere sunny but it does leave you unused to the aforementioned meteorological fkery which means there's potential for incidents/accidents when you come back to the UK and start flying here.

[BigGingerBob]

Ha, yes that's true. The school nearest me has a school in Malta too. Might be tempting to do a couple of hours over there and tie it into a holiday!
But yes, I would want to get used to the weather. Especially in the coastal south west things can change pretty fast!

Is the LAPL a good route too? I know it's a lot more restrictive.

[SwissJonese]

I gained my PPL (Helicopters) in 2008. I haven't been flying much since, moving country, having kids etc. The licence has no expiry.

The medical and radio licence will need renewing and a check ride with an instructor + 3-5hr flying time, if I want to go solo gain.

But realistically a flight school would want a few hours under your belt for them to be happy to hire a plane/heli (plus not sure I would be confident in doing it anyway).

[fat80b]

It depends what you want to get out of it....

I have had a PPL - I got mine at 18. I think it compares to other hobbies in terms of cost (if you squint a bit) - i.e. you could be a golfer or buy a race car, or etc etc....And its way cheaper than helicopters!

You could do 1 hour a month if you wanted. I went solo after 7 hours and started circuit bashing. Total from beginning -> PPL was about 55 hours for me (from memory).

The training side of it is great and the nav tests towards the end are awesome fun - I flew from Caernarfon -> Liverpool John Lennon -> Hawarden -> Caernarfon for mine. "Hold at 1500 feet over the Liver building, head for Speke, and turn finals after the EasyJet 737... then head for the main terminal apron before signing into the departure lounge......etc

Once qualified, it was also great - I had a work colleague who also had a PPL - We'd hire a club plane and head out for a few hours - one of us would fly there, one back - we basically did every single airfield within about 1:10 from Cambridge. (World's most expensive bacon sandwich)... We did everything from grass strips with nothing on them through to Coventry, Nottingham, Norwich, etc.

She went down the microlight route leaving me a bit stuck and keeping it then became a bit of a chore. I'm not sure of the current rules, but it changed back then making it way harder to keep current.

- Originally it was 5 hours per year per type - this wasn't too bad - a few weekends could achieve it.
- then it became 12 hours every 2 years with at least 12 hours in the second of those years - i.e. Y1= 0 hours, Y2 = 12 hours. 12 hours, while not sounding that much, takes quite a bit of planning. You don't want to get to September needing VFR weather to get your hours in.
- I'm not sure what the actual requirements are now

That combined with the fact that a club won't actually let you take a plane that far - i.e. They need it to be in the air to make money, not sat on the tarmac while you pop into town for a long lunch on a Saturday, it ended up being a bit of a chore tbh even though there's nothing quite like it.

I did that for a while, ended up looking at the "share in a plane" idea for a bit - while do-able, the costs escalate and you do hear horror stories of groups that don't sound much fun. I decided against it.

In the end, I let it lapse, but can always say I had a PPL... And in the event of an emergency on a Jumbo Jet, I'm ready to put my hand up and have a go...

[Hill92]

BigGingerBob said:

Ha, yes that's true. The school nearest me has a school in Malta too. Might be tempting to do a couple of hours over there and tie it into a holiday!
But yes, I would want to get used to the weather. Especially in the coastal south west things can change pretty fast!

Is the LAPL a good route too? I know it's a lot more restrictive.

The LAPL is no longer issued as of 1 October. It has been subsumed by the NPPL with SEP aeroplane rating, which now offers a path to PPL.

I would strongly recommend looking at microlights for the type of flying you want to do. They are significantly cheaper to rent and fly.

https://www.bmaa.org/

The latest 600kg Light Sport Microlights put old Cessnas and Pipers to shame for typical VFR bimbles.

At the other end you could get a share in an older [older in this context being from the past 10-20 years rather a 50+ year old Cessna!] 472.5kg microlight such as a EV-97 Eurostar, Skyranger or C42 for £2k-40K depending on the size of the group.

https://afors.com/three-axis-microlights/shares/Un...

[Simpo Two]

hidetheelephants said:

Gliding is a lot cheaper

Once you've 'glid' you'll think that anyone who can just pull the throttle out and have another go is cheating...!

[pete]

I'm a year into training for my PPL. I can't recommend it highly enough. For me, it's something of a lifelong dream that I kept putting off due to lack of money, time, or both. I turned 50 and thought "to hell with it, now or never!"

The cheapest way to do it is to go somewhere sunny and blitz everything in one go, but that wasn't practical for me, so I've been doing it slowly, a couple of lessons a month, as much as work, weather and family allows. Taking a load of time off work and getting 2 - 3 lessons in a *week* would perhaps be the optimal way to do it in the UK, as you'd pick up the muscle memory and technique a lot faster, and waste a lot less time each lesson remembering how it feels to fly the bloody plane. Regardless of the fact I will undoubtedly spend a lot more than 45 hours to get my license, I find the learning process itself hugely enjoyable, (a) because I'm flying an aeroplane, and (b) because at my age, you don't often get the chance to learn a completely new skill that's 100% mentally and physically engaging during the lessons.

It isn't cheap. About £250 an hour for dual instruction in a PA28 here in the South East, so it's going to be at least £15k for me, plus pocket change by comparison for things like books, a headset, charts, Ray Ban Aviators, and other pilot paraphernalia. Not to mention all the flying books I'm reading instead of studying for my exams... Once I get my license, my aim is to get a lot of £200 cups of coffee and slices of cake, and perhaps take the odd chance to terrify my family by flying them to Le Touquet for the day in a single-engined aircraft. The recency requirements for a Single Engine Piston class rating aren't too arduous: it's valid for 2 years, and you need 12 hours flying (6 as Pilot in Command), 12 takeoffs and landings, and a 1 hour proficiency check with an instructor in the last year before expiry (see, I do remember some of the Part-FCL content from Air Law ). Frankly if I was flying less frequently than that, I wouldn't trust myself to take my family up!

If you need further encouragement, here's a slightly shaky selfie taken earlier this year after I'd completed my first solo, without breaking the aeroplane or infringing Heathrow's controlled airspace, and I even managed to park it back in more or less the right place without adult supervision. That's the look of someone who's momentarily forgotten about the £250 per hour!

[BigGingerBob]

Thanks Peter and also the other Fat Bob.

I really want to do it but it is the potential for it to become a chore that is bothering me a bit.

There's not gliding near me I don't think. I haven't seen a glider anywhere near my home (or even in the county) ever I don't think.
Microlights is interesting and something I will look at.

For instance, you can fly microlights with a PPL with the correct sign off but do you have to keep the Cessna flying part of the PPL active to carry on flying microlights?

The way I am understanding it is that the PPL itself runs forever, it's just the entitlement to fly that particular aircraft that lapses?

NB. I know there isn't a Cessna/Piper type rating, I just mean keeping the entitlement to fly those types of plane

[Simpo Two]

BigGingerBob said:

There's not gliding near me I don't think. I haven't seen a glider anywhere near my home (or even in the county) ever I don't think.
Microlights is interesting and something I will look at.

For instance, you can fly microlights with a PPL with the correct sign off but do you have to keep the Cessna flying part of the PPL active to carry on flying microlights?

The way I am understanding it is that the PPL itself runs forever, it's just the entitlement to fly that particular aircraft that lapses?

NB. I know there isn't a Cessna/Piper type rating, I just mean keeping the entitlement to fly those types of plane

Closest one is https://www.camgliding.uk/find-us/

It's not a PPL but it's cheap - think of it as a fun day out if nothing else

As for the PPL, if you get one, what are you going to do with it? It can be a tool, or a one-off achievement. I don't know the rules but you have to do so many hours every so often or it lapses.

[magpie215]

I obtained my ppl at 40....managed to keep it going for 4 years before I let it lapse.

There's mention above about maintaining recency.

The other thing to bear in mind is if you want to hire an A/C from a club they may have hiher requirements for recency iirc our club needed a flight with at least 3 landing every 90 days if over a check ride with an instructor was required...something like that.

[mikef]

Flying lessons sound a bit expensive these days, I remember paying £45/hour for an hour’s instruction in a C150, so around £2K to gain my PPL, which I felt at the time was an achievement

I really would think about what you want to do once you’ve qualified. For me the aim was touring in Europe, as well as flying wherever I was working in the world and gaining IMC and night qualifications. For others it’s touring the UK and Ireland, taking pals for for £50 burgers, or progressing to instruments, commercial qualifications, instructing, aero’s, precision flying competitions, etc.

I ended up co-owning in a group, which worked for me. I was treasurer, so had a good handle on the costs involved. The problem (in the UK at least, it’s different in the US) is that having gained your licence you either need to (co-)own or rent from clubs. Clubs make their money from lessons, so don’t really want you taking their aircraft for a jaunt around Europe with it spending most of the time anchored down. Similarly, if you rent from clubs, you never know what state the plane will be when you arrive at the airfield, if it’s been fuelled, whether all the instruments are working etc.

Co-owning a plane starts to make economic sense at around 200 hours/year, including building up an engine fund. So if there are 5 members in the group, you need to be planning on 40 hours a year to make it stack up against renting. You can reduce the hours required with more in the group, but that leads to different challenges. A small group of like -minded pilots is generally less stressful.

I really would think beyond the initial qualification, before you dive in. Flying yourself around is one of the most liberating and fulfilling things you can do in life, but make the most of your investment in learning

[pete]

BigGingerBob said:

For instance, you can fly microlights with a PPL with the correct sign off but do you have to keep the Cessna flying part of the PPL active to carry on flying microlights?

The way I am understanding it is that the PPL itself runs forever, it's just the entitlement to fly that particular aircraft that lapses?

NB. I know there isn't a Cessna/Piper type rating, I just mean keeping the entitlement to fly those types of plane

As far as I understand, you can fly microlights on a UK / EASA PPL(A) with a Single Engine Piston class rating, but you need to do proper differences training first. The NPPL is a bit different, as there are class ratings for both Simple Single Engined aircraft and microlights. A visit to the British Microlight Aircraft Association website should shed light on how you turn one into the other, in either direction. If you have a PPL you can use microlight hours to *maintain* your SEP class rating at lower cost, but you can’t use those hours to get your license in the first place, or to cover the “one hour with an instructor” requirement every 2 years.

My advice would be to find a local flying club and talk it over with their chief instructor. They should know all the ins and outs of NPPL and PPL, plus conversion routes, even if they only offer one type of instruction themselves. If you’re only going to fly for fun in the UK, starting with a microlight NPPL sounds like a quicker way to fly some really fun, modern, cost effective aircraft, and should be a good foundation to build on if you really want to fly 30 year old Cessnas or Pipers at a later date - but get advice from an expert so you don’t end up in some sort of pilot license cul de sac!

[48k]

My advice would be:
1. Go and get your class 2 medical first. Assuming that's not a problem then at least you have one obstacle out of the way to getting a PPL. If you can't get a class 2 then at least you know you're looking at a lower class of licence like LAPL.
2. If you are going to learn in the UK make sure you can do 1 lesson a week or at least 3 per month and be flexible on days due to the weather. If your lessons get spread out too much you end up repeating things as a refresh rather than pushing on through the syllabus.
3. Related to 2 - try and make sure you have the same instructor all the way through. That way you build a good relationship and they know where you're at.
4. Don't pay for all lessons up front, flying schools have a common habbit of going bust. Pay for everything on CC.

And 5 - if I was telling myself then what I know now - do all the exams up front. I am terrible at exams, I hate studying, I find the whole process very tedious and boring. Not helped by the fact that Air Law will be the first subject you study as pretty much all schools insist on passing this as a prerequisite for first solo and it's extremely dry with lots of irrelevant/archiac things in it. The flying is interesting and extremely enjoyable and what happened to me was that I finished all of the flying syllabus and was ready to take the GFT but still hadn't done all of the ground school or radio practical exam, which took the shine off it. So if I was doing it all again I'd get the crappy part out of the way as soon as possible.

Best of luck!