Questions regarding an extended family yacht to share
Discussion
Long and winding query but please bear with me.
Currently the elder(richer) statesmen/women of the family are looking at pooling some resources to buy and maintain a cruising yacht, they have asked me to do some research and look at managing the whole thing. I think this is based on my previous sailing experience which amounts to cruising on my late Nan’s yacht with her partner, they had a twister and I was about 8-12 when they used to take me down to their boat moored in Faversham for the summer hols, plus the odd trip to France.
The loose spec I've been given is:-
Take a group of 6-8 comfortably for a long weekend or 2 adults for a month or two in blue ocean waters.
So questions in no particular order.
Resources: -
Are there any particular forum or websites I should look at?
Education :-
I know no one will actually have to have a license other than VHF but to make this safe, workable and enjoyable and to enable everyone to get the most out of it, I think we should set some minimum standards.
What courses would you recommend for those who wish to captain said boat, general travel will be around the Poole/Solent area but the occasional trip down to the med and back maybe entertained, with frequent cross channel expeditions.
They'll be few other crew types that I want to cater for with courses: -
1. Those that will be first mates when on long trips and short handed
2. Those that will want to be active crew members during long weekends
3. Those that want to sit on deck understand what is going on and not get in the way, shouted at or knocked overboard by the beam.
Is their somewhere where we could do intensive courses as a family unit?
Buying a Boat
Given the long, short handed blue ocean journeys I'm presuming they'll need to be some very good marine navigation stuff as well as some level of autopilot and powered sail management for furling/unfurling, winches etc. I assume it’s still possible to use these things manually when we're crewed up?
They are not looking at playboy super sailing yachts or racing, the budget isn't tied down yet but it looks like it could around the £1m mark inclusive of all equipment.
The initial purchase price needs to include all set up costs so not sure what the real difference is between a purchase price and an at sea price?
I've done some pouring over some internet pages so far, but what I'm not sure is what brands or even size of yacht I should be looking at, there seems to be very little actual price information on new boats and when there is it seem that their significant variation in price for a couple of extra feet and between different makers. To the untrained eye there are no obvious reason as to why, any recommendations?
Would we be better getting a second hand larger reasonably new boat or buy a smaller new and possibly specifically equipped to meet our needs?
Things like having 1 master suite and 2 berths with bunks and a convertible lounge area that can take a couple of sleepers, would be a better layout than a 3 double bed arrangement.
Would retrofitting a boat to our needs increase the purchase as to make a newer boat the better option, especially if we have to retrofit powered sail management systems?
Maintenance & management
I’ve floated the idea of an annual budget at £20k to cover mooring in the Poole/Solent area plus full maintenance. Fuel & at sea costs will be covered individually.
Do these numbers look reasonable, I have a feeling the annual cost might spiral a bit in some years and not sure if £20k per annum is about right all-in. Would it be possible to get a full maintenance contract with a boat yard, plus a warrantee to cover parts.
My feeling is that the management of this could become a nightmare if one of the owners falls out of love with the idea in a few years or passes away, they’ll be 8 investors/owners in unequal shares but equal rights, so is there some legal framework already in existence that might help here?
The real plus is that I’ll be the most unequal investor with an equal share for managing it, so if I can do it by way of contracts than personally having to price & negotiate on every job that needs doing that would be great.
Anyway any pointers gratefully received.
Currently the elder(richer) statesmen/women of the family are looking at pooling some resources to buy and maintain a cruising yacht, they have asked me to do some research and look at managing the whole thing. I think this is based on my previous sailing experience which amounts to cruising on my late Nan’s yacht with her partner, they had a twister and I was about 8-12 when they used to take me down to their boat moored in Faversham for the summer hols, plus the odd trip to France.
The loose spec I've been given is:-
Take a group of 6-8 comfortably for a long weekend or 2 adults for a month or two in blue ocean waters.
So questions in no particular order.
Resources: -
Are there any particular forum or websites I should look at?
Education :-
I know no one will actually have to have a license other than VHF but to make this safe, workable and enjoyable and to enable everyone to get the most out of it, I think we should set some minimum standards.
What courses would you recommend for those who wish to captain said boat, general travel will be around the Poole/Solent area but the occasional trip down to the med and back maybe entertained, with frequent cross channel expeditions.
They'll be few other crew types that I want to cater for with courses: -
1. Those that will be first mates when on long trips and short handed
2. Those that will want to be active crew members during long weekends
3. Those that want to sit on deck understand what is going on and not get in the way, shouted at or knocked overboard by the beam.
Is their somewhere where we could do intensive courses as a family unit?
Buying a Boat
Given the long, short handed blue ocean journeys I'm presuming they'll need to be some very good marine navigation stuff as well as some level of autopilot and powered sail management for furling/unfurling, winches etc. I assume it’s still possible to use these things manually when we're crewed up?
They are not looking at playboy super sailing yachts or racing, the budget isn't tied down yet but it looks like it could around the £1m mark inclusive of all equipment.
The initial purchase price needs to include all set up costs so not sure what the real difference is between a purchase price and an at sea price?
I've done some pouring over some internet pages so far, but what I'm not sure is what brands or even size of yacht I should be looking at, there seems to be very little actual price information on new boats and when there is it seem that their significant variation in price for a couple of extra feet and between different makers. To the untrained eye there are no obvious reason as to why, any recommendations?
Would we be better getting a second hand larger reasonably new boat or buy a smaller new and possibly specifically equipped to meet our needs?
Things like having 1 master suite and 2 berths with bunks and a convertible lounge area that can take a couple of sleepers, would be a better layout than a 3 double bed arrangement.
Would retrofitting a boat to our needs increase the purchase as to make a newer boat the better option, especially if we have to retrofit powered sail management systems?
Maintenance & management
I’ve floated the idea of an annual budget at £20k to cover mooring in the Poole/Solent area plus full maintenance. Fuel & at sea costs will be covered individually.
Do these numbers look reasonable, I have a feeling the annual cost might spiral a bit in some years and not sure if £20k per annum is about right all-in. Would it be possible to get a full maintenance contract with a boat yard, plus a warrantee to cover parts.
My feeling is that the management of this could become a nightmare if one of the owners falls out of love with the idea in a few years or passes away, they’ll be 8 investors/owners in unequal shares but equal rights, so is there some legal framework already in existence that might help here?
The real plus is that I’ll be the most unequal investor with an equal share for managing it, so if I can do it by way of contracts than personally having to price & negotiate on every job that needs doing that would be great.
Anyway any pointers gratefully received.
That was my suggestion as we would have overlapping time demands and the legal issues, however their more emotional point is that we will have our own boat that can provide a focal point for the wider family to be engaged in doing things together, over the last few years or so many family members have drifted apart and it's seen as something everyone could be involved in.
I was quite heartened when they responded with that. In a sense What I want to set up is a charter but owned by and run for the one family.
Thanks for the link
I was quite heartened when they responded with that. In a sense What I want to set up is a charter but owned by and run for the one family.
Thanks for the link
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th October 12:20
Right, well that's a lot of questions!
As you said, I would get some training sorted out. We have a powerboat school here and we do discounts for family groups so I'm sure a large yachting training centre would be able to offer a family discount. When you do a day skipper or competant crew, you will be in a group of 4-6 anyway so it's beneficial to the school if you can arrange the group yourself.
I would ask each yacht dealer you're talking to if thye have a sailing school, most will, or at least will be affilliated with one, as we are with the powerboat school. I would suggest the skippers will need to have at least Day Skipper and their ICC, they would be better with Coastal Skipper though. The crew will benefit from having the Competant Crew qualification at least. Again, any sailing school will be able to offer this, although it will be on a much smaller yacht. Sometimes you will be able to do training on your own yacht, not sure if they would be willing to do this on a yacht of your size & expense.
I deal in powerboats so I'm afraid I can't help too much with what yacht would be better than another and what you're gaining for your money in each boat. Just make sure you do your research into each brand, research where they're made and where they were previously made (some brands have an excellent reputation for build quality but you will find they have more recently moved production overseas to save costs or to centralise). I would suggest you spend a lot of time playing with the navigation systems and electronics. They vary immensely in terms of useability and features. Some I find incredibly easy and intuitive to use and some are really fiddly and don't work as you would expect them to! It's worth talking to a specialist in this field and having a system designed specificially for you, one that works all together as one system and integrates well without having to fiddle with settings and parametres. There are lots of specialists around, I can recommend one in Lymington for you.
With regards to the new/used question, I suppose there's arguments for both. New you spec it how you like but you deal with a big hit in depreciation, used you will find you spend more having it re-fitted to your specification (unless you're lucky and find a perfect boat!). You do generally find most of the problems and niggles you will get with the boat are within the first few months so if you get a used boat you may find that most of these problems have been sorted and you won't have to worry about trying to have her lifted to sort out small warranty issues.
Storage and maintenance costs - £20k PA might be tight, it's worth finding out how much it will cost to berth, and if there are even spaces available at your chosen marina. I know in Lymington it can cost up to £8,000 PA for an 11M berth. I'm assuming for £1m your yacht will be a lot longer than 11M! There are certainly a lot of companies that specialise in storing and maintaining your yacht for you. I know of one in Lymington as I service his RIB for him. It would definately be worth phoning a few of these places and having a casual chat with them, they are going to be the most experienced and knowledgable when it comes to maintainance costs.
Hope that helps, sorry I can't be anymore help with the actual choice of yacht but it's not really my market. Please let me know if I can help any further. I also supply, tenders, dinghies, small RIB's, engines, safety equipment, liferafts etc. so if you need any help on that side of things please let me know.
Dan
As you said, I would get some training sorted out. We have a powerboat school here and we do discounts for family groups so I'm sure a large yachting training centre would be able to offer a family discount. When you do a day skipper or competant crew, you will be in a group of 4-6 anyway so it's beneficial to the school if you can arrange the group yourself.
I would ask each yacht dealer you're talking to if thye have a sailing school, most will, or at least will be affilliated with one, as we are with the powerboat school. I would suggest the skippers will need to have at least Day Skipper and their ICC, they would be better with Coastal Skipper though. The crew will benefit from having the Competant Crew qualification at least. Again, any sailing school will be able to offer this, although it will be on a much smaller yacht. Sometimes you will be able to do training on your own yacht, not sure if they would be willing to do this on a yacht of your size & expense.
I deal in powerboats so I'm afraid I can't help too much with what yacht would be better than another and what you're gaining for your money in each boat. Just make sure you do your research into each brand, research where they're made and where they were previously made (some brands have an excellent reputation for build quality but you will find they have more recently moved production overseas to save costs or to centralise). I would suggest you spend a lot of time playing with the navigation systems and electronics. They vary immensely in terms of useability and features. Some I find incredibly easy and intuitive to use and some are really fiddly and don't work as you would expect them to! It's worth talking to a specialist in this field and having a system designed specificially for you, one that works all together as one system and integrates well without having to fiddle with settings and parametres. There are lots of specialists around, I can recommend one in Lymington for you.
With regards to the new/used question, I suppose there's arguments for both. New you spec it how you like but you deal with a big hit in depreciation, used you will find you spend more having it re-fitted to your specification (unless you're lucky and find a perfect boat!). You do generally find most of the problems and niggles you will get with the boat are within the first few months so if you get a used boat you may find that most of these problems have been sorted and you won't have to worry about trying to have her lifted to sort out small warranty issues.
Storage and maintenance costs - £20k PA might be tight, it's worth finding out how much it will cost to berth, and if there are even spaces available at your chosen marina. I know in Lymington it can cost up to £8,000 PA for an 11M berth. I'm assuming for £1m your yacht will be a lot longer than 11M! There are certainly a lot of companies that specialise in storing and maintaining your yacht for you. I know of one in Lymington as I service his RIB for him. It would definately be worth phoning a few of these places and having a casual chat with them, they are going to be the most experienced and knowledgable when it comes to maintainance costs.
Hope that helps, sorry I can't be anymore help with the actual choice of yacht but it's not really my market. Please let me know if I can help any further. I also supply, tenders, dinghies, small RIB's, engines, safety equipment, liferafts etc. so if you need any help on that side of things please let me know.
Dan
Many thanks Dan all good stuff, I was down in Lymington at the weekend actually having a look around the the big yard before the green. I was just awestruck by a lot of the hardware on display and just couldn't get my head round it all. In terms of cost etc. and then the navigation equip. The shared ownership thing looks like the only way I could imagine a lot of people affording to do this as a hobby, but most people seemed to own the boat outright or charter which leads me to beleive there are actually quite a lot of wealthy people out there.
I think I definetly need to berth it but I'm probably based closest to the most expensive mooring areas in the country in East dorset, although £8k per year in Lymington does seem quite good for 11m given the access opportunities you have on your doorstep.
I need to be seriously convinced we will need to spend a £1m to get the right boat, and I've got no idea whether 8 people are doable in a 40' versus a 60'
I think I definetly need to berth it but I'm probably based closest to the most expensive mooring areas in the country in East dorset, although £8k per year in Lymington does seem quite good for 11m given the access opportunities you have on your doorstep.
I need to be seriously convinced we will need to spend a £1m to get the right boat, and I've got no idea whether 8 people are doable in a 40' versus a 60'
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th October 12:38
Don't forget, a good rule of thumb is upkeep, mooring fees, insurance, life raft service, lifejackets, clothing, equipment, anti-foul, engine service etc. will roughly cost 10% of the value of the boat for a motor boat, and 5% for a sailing yacht.
If you're looking at £1M, your approximate annual upkeep could reach £50k.
For a bit of fun for 8 people, you don't need to spend anywhere near that though!
If you've got time, the Barcelona boat show is on in 2 weeks, that's a very good starting point as you can go and see what's on the market new, which will give you a good idea what you're looking at.
In my opinion, you could spend 200-400k on a really nice 50' blue water cruiser, new or nearly new, and have at least as much fun as spending twice or three times as much.
Hell, you would have loads of family fun with a few toppers and launch off the beach!
BTW - the med is a quite a long way, and involves a Biscay crossing (unless you want to go via French canals - which are beautiful!), so not for the faint hearted!
Should you go to the med, Spanish coast isn't great, just a series of marinas attached to little concrete towns, pnly highlights are Valencia and Barcelona. Balearics are great though. France coast short but memorable. Italy crazy, Croatia beautiful. Greece has brilliant sailing, very cheap, but slight language barrier means you never quite 'fit in' as you can in the Western med.
Hope that helps!
If you're looking at £1M, your approximate annual upkeep could reach £50k.
For a bit of fun for 8 people, you don't need to spend anywhere near that though!
If you've got time, the Barcelona boat show is on in 2 weeks, that's a very good starting point as you can go and see what's on the market new, which will give you a good idea what you're looking at.
In my opinion, you could spend 200-400k on a really nice 50' blue water cruiser, new or nearly new, and have at least as much fun as spending twice or three times as much.
Hell, you would have loads of family fun with a few toppers and launch off the beach!
BTW - the med is a quite a long way, and involves a Biscay crossing (unless you want to go via French canals - which are beautiful!), so not for the faint hearted!
Should you go to the med, Spanish coast isn't great, just a series of marinas attached to little concrete towns, pnly highlights are Valencia and Barcelona. Balearics are great though. France coast short but memorable. Italy crazy, Croatia beautiful. Greece has brilliant sailing, very cheap, but slight language barrier means you never quite 'fit in' as you can in the Western med.
Hope that helps!
That would be Berthon Marina then I expect. I have my RIB in there when it's not in the yard at work.
Yeah, there's some awesome navigaiton equipment out at the moment. On my 6M RIB I have a new Garmin 8" GPS plotter, it has sonar, radar, 3x video in, full engine instrumentation and fuel data read out, auto-pilot capabilities, full 3D mapping both above and below the waterline etc and that's mid range consumer level equipment. Some of the more expensive equipment is very complex.
Yeah, sometimes it's beyond me how much some people spend on their boats! I had a demo boat for a while, a 8.6M Cobra RIB with a Yamaha 350hp outboard, that thing was using 140 litres per hour flat out! I sold it in the end for about £65k, and that was just an open RIB.
I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago sailing in Greece, we had a new Dufour 325 for my girlfriend and I which we loved. I can't help thinking that 8 people on a 40' yacht would be really cramped! I would really want at least 50-60' to be comfortable, esspecially if you're staying away on it.
Yeah, there's some awesome navigaiton equipment out at the moment. On my 6M RIB I have a new Garmin 8" GPS plotter, it has sonar, radar, 3x video in, full engine instrumentation and fuel data read out, auto-pilot capabilities, full 3D mapping both above and below the waterline etc and that's mid range consumer level equipment. Some of the more expensive equipment is very complex.
Yeah, sometimes it's beyond me how much some people spend on their boats! I had a demo boat for a while, a 8.6M Cobra RIB with a Yamaha 350hp outboard, that thing was using 140 litres per hour flat out! I sold it in the end for about £65k, and that was just an open RIB.
I was on holiday a couple of weeks ago sailing in Greece, we had a new Dufour 325 for my girlfriend and I which we loved. I can't help thinking that 8 people on a 40' yacht would be really cramped! I would really want at least 50-60' to be comfortable, esspecially if you're staying away on it.
maser_spyder said:
BTW - the med is a quite a long way, and involves a Biscay crossing (unless you want to go via French canals - which are beautiful!), so not for the faint hearted!
How much would a delivery crew charge to sail a large yacht from the Solent to the Med?I have to say I'm personally sceptical about the idea of a extended family without a strong sailing background sharing the ownership of a large yacht.
I missed the Southampton show last month and am in for an op so will miss Barcelona, I'm close to Poole, Bournemouth, Lymington Southampton so I've no problem getting to a few yards/builders on the South coast.
The med stuff, is really a few years off yet and yep we were thinking greek islands, so a crewed transfer might be a good solution
There is a strong nautical theme in the family ranging from RN, dingy racing, windsurfing and open water swimming, family are based near water and one has chartered yachts with captains in the med. One even was a navigator on a texas billionaire super yacht for a few years.
However well placed the emphasis of this is, I want everyone to get the most and fairest opportunity out if it. If everyone does the education they'll definetly get more out of it and buy-in to the way of life. That leaves the legal framework to manage the financial & equal share side. The idea is that next of kin would have first refusal of the share at no buyin cost followed by current owners, contract/maintainence cost are a given and shared equally.
Thanks for the approximate costs that gives me a good formula to start with.
The med stuff, is really a few years off yet and yep we were thinking greek islands, so a crewed transfer might be a good solution
There is a strong nautical theme in the family ranging from RN, dingy racing, windsurfing and open water swimming, family are based near water and one has chartered yachts with captains in the med. One even was a navigator on a texas billionaire super yacht for a few years.
However well placed the emphasis of this is, I want everyone to get the most and fairest opportunity out if it. If everyone does the education they'll definetly get more out of it and buy-in to the way of life. That leaves the legal framework to manage the financial & equal share side. The idea is that next of kin would have first refusal of the share at no buyin cost followed by current owners, contract/maintainence cost are a given and shared equally.
Thanks for the approximate costs that gives me a good formula to start with.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th October 14:17
Yep I remeber going to the boat show in the 80's I went to school just round the corner from earls court, it was amazing to see the sunseekers threading their way through west London. It was great at one point, bit like the motor show was in the 70's, anyway I am going if just to get some contacts rather than specifically look at any boats.
I run a sailing charter business and have a couple of comments from experience;
Firstly, your annual running cost budget is way to low for a boat in the 50-60 foot range, reason for this is the wear and tear people always forget, the costs of running and standing rigging over the years, sails, lifting and rebuilds on gear if you look at it honestly over 5 or more years are going to cost you at a minimum 10% of the new cost of the boat (and just like buying an old supercar, they don't get cheaper to run as they get older). I currently have a 67ft and a 72ft yacht and spend about £80-100k per year on maintenance. If it is a shared boat remember it is going to be used a lot more than a single owner yacht and equipment will wear faster. The larger the yacht, the faster things wear out and the more they cost to replace (a main sheet on the 72ft yacht is over £1k for just the line and if you blow blocks they can be over £2k each).
Secondly, with the sailing experience mentioned, don't rush in and buy a 50 or 60 foot boat, without experience it could be a nightmare, I know several people who based buying decisions on the interior comfort and once we take them out sailing, realize they have bought totally the wrong boat for their needs and experience.
Thirdly, stop all this worrying about electronics at this stage! You should be able to sail in the Solent with very limited equipment, learn what you need and how you want to use it and then buy it. Otherwise you're going to end up with something complex that again doesn't meet you needs as you progress in your sailing experience.
Hope this helps and doesn't come across as harsh! Not intended that way!
Firstly, your annual running cost budget is way to low for a boat in the 50-60 foot range, reason for this is the wear and tear people always forget, the costs of running and standing rigging over the years, sails, lifting and rebuilds on gear if you look at it honestly over 5 or more years are going to cost you at a minimum 10% of the new cost of the boat (and just like buying an old supercar, they don't get cheaper to run as they get older). I currently have a 67ft and a 72ft yacht and spend about £80-100k per year on maintenance. If it is a shared boat remember it is going to be used a lot more than a single owner yacht and equipment will wear faster. The larger the yacht, the faster things wear out and the more they cost to replace (a main sheet on the 72ft yacht is over £1k for just the line and if you blow blocks they can be over £2k each).
Secondly, with the sailing experience mentioned, don't rush in and buy a 50 or 60 foot boat, without experience it could be a nightmare, I know several people who based buying decisions on the interior comfort and once we take them out sailing, realize they have bought totally the wrong boat for their needs and experience.
Thirdly, stop all this worrying about electronics at this stage! You should be able to sail in the Solent with very limited equipment, learn what you need and how you want to use it and then buy it. Otherwise you're going to end up with something complex that again doesn't meet you needs as you progress in your sailing experience.
Hope this helps and doesn't come across as harsh! Not intended that way!
No not harsh, but honest and I appreciate that, thanks for the costs, I had a feeling that £50k per year might be more appropriate as a figure. I want everyone to go into this with their eyes open.
Interested in your comfort versus usage question and the size question. In order to meet our needs we are going to need a certain size and spec, which could be out of step with the major usage, not sure how to get round this. I certainly don't want to end up with a fleet to manage. Although now I'm thinking of two 30-40's (oh bugger!)No maintenance and storage will be even worse) one boat it is!
For me it's question of getting people up to speed sharpish, that was the rationale behind the intensive courses which I would imagine would be on smaller boats, getting those crewing the boat to be familiar with a 30-40 first, I would imagine I could do this through the next summer using charters & training courses.
Not sure on lead times for new builds and when we will get funds and framework in order to actually purchase, store and put to sea in "our boat". This isn't a short term plan, and if it all falls to pieces prior to the purchase then at least we did it right and everyone knew what they were getting into.
Whilst depreciation isn't a criteria on our build, I'm going to be personally accountable for the up keep and future value of the boat, so I have a vested interest in ensuring the maintenance, location and usage of the boat is appropriately done. So in the way this works, I have little investment but all the risk to manage. Which to me seems a fair trade.
With regard to the maintenance of your charters, it sounds like you do that on a job by job basis is it not possible to get a one price cover all eventualities contract with a boat yard, I'm assuming insurance will be a big cost factor for a charter.
Paddy & M, many thanks I didn't really know what to say and was taken a back when my aunts, uncles and older cousin suggest it, and then offered me a share to run it. We used to be a very close unit, in the last 10 years both my parents passed away and the family has really been cast far and wide, not necessarily geographically but by life and the events that have gone on to keep everyone so busy and occupied. I think my parents were the glue that held us all together and they made it seem so effortless, I now realise how much time and energy they put into this. Needless to say we've already got a name for said vessel. I'm going to do everything I can to make it a reality.
With regard to size our spec is quite unique so I'm not surprised there's not a huge market for er (hmm cough! an economy) 6+2 berths.
Interested in your comfort versus usage question and the size question. In order to meet our needs we are going to need a certain size and spec, which could be out of step with the major usage, not sure how to get round this. I certainly don't want to end up with a fleet to manage. Although now I'm thinking of two 30-40's (oh bugger!)No maintenance and storage will be even worse) one boat it is!
For me it's question of getting people up to speed sharpish, that was the rationale behind the intensive courses which I would imagine would be on smaller boats, getting those crewing the boat to be familiar with a 30-40 first, I would imagine I could do this through the next summer using charters & training courses.
Not sure on lead times for new builds and when we will get funds and framework in order to actually purchase, store and put to sea in "our boat". This isn't a short term plan, and if it all falls to pieces prior to the purchase then at least we did it right and everyone knew what they were getting into.
Whilst depreciation isn't a criteria on our build, I'm going to be personally accountable for the up keep and future value of the boat, so I have a vested interest in ensuring the maintenance, location and usage of the boat is appropriately done. So in the way this works, I have little investment but all the risk to manage. Which to me seems a fair trade.
With regard to the maintenance of your charters, it sounds like you do that on a job by job basis is it not possible to get a one price cover all eventualities contract with a boat yard, I'm assuming insurance will be a big cost factor for a charter.
Paddy & M, many thanks I didn't really know what to say and was taken a back when my aunts, uncles and older cousin suggest it, and then offered me a share to run it. We used to be a very close unit, in the last 10 years both my parents passed away and the family has really been cast far and wide, not necessarily geographically but by life and the events that have gone on to keep everyone so busy and occupied. I think my parents were the glue that held us all together and they made it seem so effortless, I now realise how much time and energy they put into this. Needless to say we've already got a name for said vessel. I'm going to do everything I can to make it a reality.
With regard to size our spec is quite unique so I'm not surprised there's not a huge market for er (hmm cough! an economy) 6+2 berths.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th October 15:47
I guess it would be good to understand the comfort aspect, if you do have 8 on board do they want enough space in the cabins to change? Do they want their own heads compartments or is shared OK?
As for maintenance, the boats we run have a plan based on age and mileage, very much like an aircraft, the worst thing is breakages at sea, especially if you are in the middle of the Atlantic or Biscay. Then on top of this there are the breakages that you cannot get round, these are normally due to human error rather than kit.
Never come across a boat yard or insurance company offering a fix price maintance package, I can't see how they could really as even so called production boats are never the same spec and parts from one will never fit another. You are still in a handbuilt custom world really.
To give you some ideas about how different a 50-60-70 foot yacht are, on a 50 footer the maximum load you are likely to see on a headsail line is about 1/4 tonne on a 60 footer 1-1.5 tonnes and upto 6 tonnes on the 70 footer. This means costs go up by even larger factors as the kit is produced in smaller numbers on these. It also means if something goes wrong physically managing things on a larger yacht is a much bigger challenge and is where people get in trouble. It's fine having powered winches and furling sails, but if the crew cannot handle then easily when there is no power and get them down manually, what happens when power fails, it rough, dark and urgent to get things sorted.
As for maintenance, the boats we run have a plan based on age and mileage, very much like an aircraft, the worst thing is breakages at sea, especially if you are in the middle of the Atlantic or Biscay. Then on top of this there are the breakages that you cannot get round, these are normally due to human error rather than kit.
Never come across a boat yard or insurance company offering a fix price maintance package, I can't see how they could really as even so called production boats are never the same spec and parts from one will never fit another. You are still in a handbuilt custom world really.
To give you some ideas about how different a 50-60-70 foot yacht are, on a 50 footer the maximum load you are likely to see on a headsail line is about 1/4 tonne on a 60 footer 1-1.5 tonnes and upto 6 tonnes on the 70 footer. This means costs go up by even larger factors as the kit is produced in smaller numbers on these. It also means if something goes wrong physically managing things on a larger yacht is a much bigger challenge and is where people get in trouble. It's fine having powered winches and furling sails, but if the crew cannot handle then easily when there is no power and get them down manually, what happens when power fails, it rough, dark and urgent to get things sorted.
Many thanks again and some of the illustrations on impact of size are very thought provoking. Looks like limiting size would be a good move irrespective of purchase price.
Usage wise, will be by couples on longer journeys adults 50's - early 60's. Occassional owners weekends 8 adults late 30's-60's, and long family weekends 3,4,6 rannging from toddlers, altough mainly teens & late teens with parents or grand parents
Owners weekends will be just decisions re planning for boat usage and everyone getting used to it. So not too worried about having 3 ensuites for this crowd
Long journeys are an opportunty for the retirees to take long spells in warmer climates in the winter, they may be joined down there for the odd period.
Long family weekends will be it's summer bread and butter and probably involve a few cross channel excursions.
My feeling is that one master cabin with an ensuite and two bunked births +1 communal head would meet all these requirment, if the lounge had the ability to put a couple up for a night. Then it should be cosy but doable.
I think I may be asking for an upfront lump sum to cover unforseen repairs/recovery, on top of a annual budget, and then if there is anything left on the annual budget transfer that into the emergency fund.
Usage wise, will be by couples on longer journeys adults 50's - early 60's. Occassional owners weekends 8 adults late 30's-60's, and long family weekends 3,4,6 rannging from toddlers, altough mainly teens & late teens with parents or grand parents
Owners weekends will be just decisions re planning for boat usage and everyone getting used to it. So not too worried about having 3 ensuites for this crowd
Long journeys are an opportunty for the retirees to take long spells in warmer climates in the winter, they may be joined down there for the odd period.
Long family weekends will be it's summer bread and butter and probably involve a few cross channel excursions.
My feeling is that one master cabin with an ensuite and two bunked births +1 communal head would meet all these requirment, if the lounge had the ability to put a couple up for a night. Then it should be cosy but doable.
I think I may be asking for an upfront lump sum to cover unforseen repairs/recovery, on top of a annual budget, and then if there is anything left on the annual budget transfer that into the emergency fund.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th October 16:19
Well from that description, I'll recommend two boats from all the ones I've sailed that would match and still be manageable by two people.
Firstly a Beneteau 57, this is a larger boat, big on interior comfort but with a low power rig. It's production boat so a few to choose from and several interior layouts for cabin space. Being production will not hold value as well as custom boats.
The second for all the uses you say would be a Discovery 55, this is tighter inside but built for hard use and designed to be easy to sail for two people. It would be more of a squeeze when you have 8 on board. This is on the semi custom end of the market, will hold value very well but cost more to buy and maintain.
Firstly a Beneteau 57, this is a larger boat, big on interior comfort but with a low power rig. It's production boat so a few to choose from and several interior layouts for cabin space. Being production will not hold value as well as custom boats.
The second for all the uses you say would be a Discovery 55, this is tighter inside but built for hard use and designed to be easy to sail for two people. It would be more of a squeeze when you have 8 on board. This is on the semi custom end of the market, will hold value very well but cost more to buy and maintain.
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