WWII bombing site database?

[smack]

Is there anywhere recorded where German bombs landed in the UK during the war? While walking in some local woods, I found what I suspect is a bomb crater.

[Eric Mc]

All of London?
All of Coventry?
Al;l of Portsmouth?
All of Plymouth?

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of tons of bombs fell on the UK between 1939 and 1945. Such a database would be vast.

[Simpo Two]

I've seen one which records V1 and V2 hits in London, don't have the URL though.

[twinturboz]

Quick google shows that there was a book called: The London County Council Bomb Damage Maps 1939-45 not sure where you will be able to get a copy though

Think this is the link simpo was talking about http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_summary.ht...

Edited by twinturboz on Thursday 17th December 12:29

[Simpo Two]

twinturboz said:

Quick google shows that there was a book called: The London County Council Bomb Damage Maps 1939-45 not sure where you will be able to get a copy though

Yes, there are certainly archive maps which record areas of light/medium/heavy damage, but individual bomb hits would be impossible. In the middle of an air raid, they had more important things to do than write down where each bomb fell!

The odd crater in the countryside would probably be caused by planes dumping bombs either because they were lost, or for emergency reasons, and could be German or Allied.

Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 17th December 12:33

[DieselGriff]

Simpo Two said:

The odd crater in the countryside would probably be caused by planes dumping bombs either because they were lost, or for emergency reasons, and could be German or Allied.

This is broadly true but you need to know what was nearby during the war. There's 3-4 craters near me that are out in the country and I ran into the land owner in my local and he told me that his father remembered them being created.

The target would likely to have been a large munitions factory nearby which is now an industrial estate and a bit easy to think was just fields during the war.

So you could try the locals see if anyone remembers how they came to be there.

[tank slapper]

Simpo Two said:

The odd crater in the countryside would probably be caused by planes dumping bombs either because they were lost, or for emergency reasons, and could be German or Allied.

It could equally be bombers releasing bombs inaccurately - a great many bomb loads were scattered over empty countryside purely because the standard of navigation was not good enough to hit the target in all cases, especially earlier in the war when electronic navigation aids were not available.

The bomb damage maps are quite accurate, in that they record the damage as it stood at the end of the war. They don't show individual hits (apart from V1 and V2), but you can often see them anyway because of the pattern of damage, which is graded by severity using different colours.

Unfotunately, the London Metropolitan Archive have decided that rather than make the information freely available online, you will have to pay for it. You can see them if you go there in person though.

Here is what they look like:



Found here which has the colour key.

Edited by tank slapper on Friday 18th December 09:37

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of tons of bombs fell on the UK between 1939 and 1945. Such a database would be vast.

Official estimated figure for the UK, 1939 - 1945, is *less* than 71,000 metric tons (including V1's and V2's).

[Eric Mc]

dr_gn said:

Eric Mc said:

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of tons of bombs fell on the UK between 1939 and 1945. Such a database would be vast.

Official estimated figure for the UK, 1939 - 1945, is *less* than 71,000 metric tons (including V1's and V2's).

Fair enough. After I wrote it I thought that "millions" might be a bit excessive

Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 18th December 23:01

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

dr_gn said:

Eric Mc said:

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of tons of bombs fell on the UK between 1939 and 1945. Such a database would be vast.

Official estimated figure for the UK, 1939 - 1945, is *less* than 71,000 metric tons (including V1's and V2's).

Fair enough. After I wrote it I thought that "millions" might be a bit excessive

Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 18th December 23:01

I guess the figure for mainland Europe might be a little bit different?

[tank slapper]

dr_gn said:

I guess the figure for mainland Europe might be a little bit different?

I seem to recall that more ordnance was dropped in the 1991 Gulf war than the whole of WW2.

Edit - Did some looking, and it appears that isn't the case. Allied aerial ordnance dropped was in the order of 1.6 million tons in WW2, and about 100,000 in GW1. Not sure where I heard that, but obviously it wasn't right.

Edited by tank slapper on Friday 18th December 23:30

[dr_gn]

tank slapper said:

dr_gn said:

I guess the figure for mainland Europe might be a little bit different?

I seem to recall that more ordnance was dropped in the 1991 Gulf war than the whole of WW2.

Cool.

[williamp]

Eric Mc said:

dr_gn said:

Eric Mc said:

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of tons of bombs fell on the UK between 1939 and 1945. Such a database would be vast.

Official estimated figure for the UK, 1939 - 1945, is *less* than 71,000 metric tons (including V1's and V2's).

Fair enough. After I wrote it I thought that "millions" might be a bit excessive

Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 18th December 23:01

just be a politician and say "up to 10 million tons of bombs" which covers everything from 1 ton up to 10 million. Easy, eh?

Oh, I have seen a map showing where all the V1 bombs fell in kent, published by the KM (the local paper). You can buy these from museums, but I've not seen any scanned images

[smack]

DieselGriff said:

Simpo Two said:

The odd crater in the countryside would probably be caused by planes dumping bombs either because they were lost, or for emergency reasons, and could be German or Allied.

This is broadly true but you need to know what was nearby during the war. There's 3-4 craters near me that are out in the country and I ran into the land owner in my local and he told me that his father remembered them being created.

The target would likely to have been a large munitions factory nearby which is now an industrial estate and a bit easy to think was just fields during the war.

So you could try the locals see if anyone remembers how they came to be there.

I was having a think about that. There was a bomber factory about 12 miles away, and on the other side of town about 4 miles away, was an AA battery (concrete structure is still there), to protect one of the approaches. I don't think there was anything military related in the near by towns, but there is MOD training land close by, but all the barracks are some distance away. Though I guess it doesn't take much for a WWII bomber to be a few miles off course.

Maybe the local History Centre will have some documents.

[Simpo Two]

tank slapper said:

I seem to recall that more ordnance was dropped in the 1991 Gulf war than the whole of WW2.

Edit - Did some looking, and it appears that isn't the case. Allied aerial ordnance dropped was in the order of 1.6 million tons in WW2, and about 100,000 in GW1. Not sure where I heard that, but obviously it wasn't right.

There will probably be a difference between 'tonnage' and 'explosive force/TNT equivalent'. Thanks to 50 years' advances in explosives technology I expect 100,000 tonnes in 1991 did a lot more damage than 100,000 tons in 1940.

[tank slapper]

Most definately the vast majority of that ordnance dropped in the gulf war will have landed on or very near to its target, which is in stark contrast to during WW2, where most of it was lucky to get anywhere near it.

Standards did improve later on but they were still (with a few exceptions) quite a long way from the famed pickle barrel.

[TheEnd]

I know Birmingham has a map, there are often checked by planners/builders when starting work in some areas, as they record the runs, and empty spots in the middle will mean there is likely to be something buried in the mud.


This is B'ham city centre, red and black dots were possibly explosive vs incendiary, x's were UXBs, and there would be little pictures of planes where enemy stuff was brought down.

This is all in B'ham central library. There is also a list of dates and addresses from deaths from air raids for the Birmingham area. I did add a few into google maps for my local area, you can see indivdual bombing runs, and it also records some tragedies, such as atone house, early on in the war, where many people died as they gathered round a UXB which went off.

You can often see the new houses built to replace ones there were bombed. Quite often, they stand out for not having chimneys on them.



http://www.birminghamairraids.co.uk/index.html

Edited by TheEnd on Monday 21st December 18:46

[Simpo Two]

Would it be bad form to organise another air-raid on Birmingham?

[TheEnd]

Simpo Two said:

Would it be bad form to organise another air-raid on Birmingham?

There aren't any factories left now, but i do have the co-ords for some estates you could try.

[williamp]

Not sure how to link form it, but the V1 map is here:

http://www.edenbridgetown.com/maps/v1.shtml