Deltic engines - can someone explain the starting process

[drivin_me_nuts]

OK, so it's not a car, but I know (even if they're in the train closet) there are a number of people here who know a thing or three about these engines...

Can someone please explain the starting cycle here with the deltic engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiO7HrjE_qg

[Incorrigible]

I WATCHED THAT FG VIDEO

NOTHING FG HAPPENED

You owe me 3 minutes of my life back

[drivin_me_nuts]

No you can't. Now if you know how it starts then please tell, or if not, phfeck off toute suite.

[Pigeon]

It's not a Deltic. As it says in the comments it's a Class 40, which is a conventional V16 quad-turbo four-stroke. All that's up with it is it's cold and not in the best of condition. The white smoke is unburned diesel from pots that haven't fired alternating with bursts of black smoke when some of them do.

Having said that, Deltics do kick out a lot of smoke at startup... The three exhaust manifolds from the three banks run into a big collector drum and oil tends to collect in the bottom of this drum; when you give it some wellie it smokes it all out.

[sherman]

Its much like any diesel thats starting from cold it needs to be warmed up first before the engine will lumber into life.

[Pigeon]

I used to live next door to someone who had a Transit that started like that. He would start it turning over at 7:15 every morning and by 7:20 it might just about be going well enough to run without the starter motor.

[drivin_me_nuts]

Pigeon said:

It's not a Deltic. As it says in the comments it's a Class 40, which is a conventional V16 quad-turbo four-stroke. All that's up with it is it's cold and not in the best of condition. The white smoke is unburned diesel from pots that haven't fired alternating with bursts of black smoke when some of them do.

Having said that, Deltics do kick out a lot of smoke at startup... The three exhaust manifolds from the three banks run into a big collector drum and oil tends to collect in the bottom of this drum; when you give it some wellie it smokes it all out.

Cheers. The rising and falling whine that can be heard - do you know what the purspose is; is it the equivalent of reving the engine?

[sherman]

drivin_me_nuts said:

Pigeon said:

It's not a Deltic. As it says in the comments it's a Class 40, which is a conventional V16 quad-turbo four-stroke. All that's up with it is it's cold and not in the best of condition. The white smoke is unburned diesel from pots that haven't fired alternating with bursts of black smoke when some of them do.

Having said that, Deltics do kick out a lot of smoke at startup... The three exhaust manifolds from the three banks run into a big collector drum and oil tends to collect in the bottom of this drum; when you give it some wellie it smokes it all out.

Cheers. The rising and falling whine that can be heard - do you know what the purspose is; is it the equivalent of reving the engine?

It could be either the driver reving the engine a bit or it could be a stuttering engine catching just before it stalls.

[Pigeon]

It's the turbos. There are four of them, they are large, and they are not very well silenced. The Class 40s are known as "Whistlers" because of the turbo noise. When they put the hammer down and the turbos spool up it is quite spine-tingling.

You can hear them more clearly in this video of it idling having warmed up a bit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=KHiIr1XQnZ0

(And in the bit at the end where there is a random shot of some locos in the yard - the one on the left, that's a Deltic.)

[Pigeon]

Another cold start vid of it. Starting gear whine at the start and then turbo noise once it begins to fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Nlk0AjvT6yY

[Pigeon]

Full thrash...

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=HxUzQJxPmi4

[lord summerisle]

Zontar shows you how to start one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh4MBa1bk4w




you push he starter button.

[Bish]

The rising and falling of the engine revs is due to the engine speed govenor. Because the enginge and therefore the oil is cold it is very thick.......the oil runs through the govenor setting the idle speed.....when it is very cold though it surges ever so slightly producing that lovely English Electric off beat thrash.

The white smoke is unburnt diesel etc as it takes an age for all the cylinders to catch on. At night when you start one of these (or even the 12 cylinder V12 fitted to 31'2 and 37's) they can produce some quite nice flames from the exhaust!

[Bish]

here are a couple of great cold start vids....

37 at Old Oak Common
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_cGG56QA4

40145 at ELR (watch for the flames at 2:35)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlk0AjvT6yY&fea...

MY LORDDZZZZ

Edited by Bish on Monday 8th March 08:19

Edited by Bish on Monday 8th March 08:21

[baldy1926]

you have to like trains to live near one of those depots

[sambaman]

fantastic that diesel throwing those flames...takes me back to my youth.....never forget those sounds of those diesels working all night long going past york.....

[Chris-R]

Bish said:

here are a couple of great cold start vids....

37 at Old Oak Common
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_cGG56QA4

40145 at ELR (watch for the flames at 2:35)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlk0AjvT6yY&fea...

MY LORDDZZZZ

Edited by Bish on Monday 8th March 08:19

Edited by Bish on Monday 8th March 08:21

Blimey, that's epic. So do you have to keep your finger on the starter button for the whole three minutes?

[drivin_me_nuts]

Thanks for the explainations and the youtube links -very enjoyable.

Does anyone know if the English locomotives use dynamic braking as used by the larger American SDxx classes?

Edit: There was a rather fabulous vid on youtube a while back showing an HST starting after repairs. Flames hot enough to burn the foreskin off old nic himself. I can't find it now.

Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Tuesday 9th March 01:04

[The Student]

Reminds me of a tractor we used to have. Did very good Deltic impressions on a daily basis. Flames and all. How big must the batteries on them things be to turn a big V16 over for 3 or 4 minuets while it fires. Amazing thing.

[Huntsman]

The Student said:

Reminds me of a tractor we used to have. Did very good Deltic impressions on a daily basis. Flames and all. How big must the batteries on them things be to turn a big V16 over for 3 or 4 minuets while it fires. Amazing thing.

Is it batteries?

Or maybe a smaller diesel running a compressor with an air starter?