Why Do Boats Cost so much?

[SystemParanoia]

Why do boats... especially Engineless Sailboats cost so bloomin much ?

arent they just Shaped Fibreglass made from a mould ?

ok yes its 4 inches thick ( isnt it ? )... but fibreglass is hardly expensive is it

[PHmember]

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

[Lefty Two Drams]

[Huntsman]

SystemParanoia said:

Why do boats... especially Engineless Sailboats cost so bloomin much ?

arent they just Shaped Fibreglass made from a mould ?

ok yes its 4 inches thick ( isnt it ? )... but fibreglass is hardly expensive is it

A lot of design and development cost, CE marking cost, moulding cost, marketing. All to be spread over a low volume product.

No, its not 4 inches thick. A 20 foot sail boat would be about 1/2 inch thick along the centreline, praps more near the keel, maybe less than 1/4 inch thick at the top. Thicker in stress areas like keel, rudder, mast step etc.

[SystemParanoia]

i guess if you want a big boat you just have to build it yourself and let CE marking be-damned ?


its just so strange how the simplest bathtub with a bed sheet on a post can be so crippling finantially.



i can understand the cost of the super yachts.. they ar absolutely stunning...

but the lesser machines.. that are ugly, small, and not actually very good compared to a super yacht ( all imho ) just seem WAYYYYYYY overpriced

[maser_spyder]

SystemParanoia said:

i guess if you want a big boat you just have to build it yourself and let CE marking be-damned ?


its just so strange how the simplest bathtub with a bed sheet on a post can be so crippling finantially.



i can understand the cost of the super yachts.. they ar absolutely stunning...

but the lesser machines.. that are ugly, small, and not actually very good compared to a super yacht ( all imho ) just seem WAYYYYYYY overpriced

Build it yourself would equate to roughly the same cost of 'off the shelf' by the time you have design and inevitable 'first build' issues.

If it's not CE marked, it has to be clearly labelled as a 'PROTOTYPE' and sold as such when required. You can't sell a non-CE boat in Europe legally. In any case, RCD compliance isn't actually that hard if you take the regs in to account in the design stages. A large part of it is actually things like having the right stickers and a concise user manual!

I've never sailed a bathtub before, but I'm sure it wouldn't have enough weight at the bottom for a good stiff breeze? You would have to take the plug hole in to account too....

Oddly enough, one part of boating I DON'T understand is superyachts! Why not stay in a hotel? Most of the fun in boating is actually sailing itself, if you have a skipper to do this, all you would need to do is sit and watch the world go by (a bit like sitting on a ferry!). Sailing yourself from one place to the next is really satisfying, and great fun.

Boats are built on very, very small scales, and are pretty much (Brunswick aside) entirely hand built. The labour cost is immense.

If you took apart a cheapy sailing yacht, say, 40' Bavaria at £100k, you have;

£8k of commissioning (anti-foul, launch, delivery, etc.)
£17500 of VAT
£5000 of mast/rig
£1500 of sails
£10000 engine
£5000 electronics
£2000 plumbing
£2000 cushions etc.
£5000 interior fit out (wood, seats, cupboards, etc.)

That leaves about £44k for the bathtub, and profit.

Not really a huge money-spinner for the builder as far as I can work out.

Perhaps you should look for a Topper?

[maser_spyder]

PHmember said:

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

I will have to remember that one!

[SystemParanoia]

i like that topper! will do some more research into that!

could it be modified to have a bigger mast/sail and hydrofoils like that bloody quick french thing


ETA : Awesome!

ETA : Forgot the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW_UfYGO3Kg

Edited by SystemParanoia on Thursday 11th March 13:44

[maser_spyder]

SystemParanoia said:

i like that topper! will do some more research into that!

could it be modified to have a bigger mast/sail and hydrofoils like that bloody quick french thing


ETA : Awesome!

Edited by SystemParanoia on Thursday 11th March 13:32

Ah, you're looking for the 'Topper WEWAF' model. (With Extra Wings And Fins).

Costs just a bit more than the standard one.

[blueg33]

PHmember said:

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

That has to be a response from a member of my yacht club in Hamble (I will keep the actual club name quiet)

Buying the boat is nothing, its the running costs in terms of mooring fees, maintenance, craneage in and out, anti fouling (very expensive stuff), electronics and Gin and Tonics

I describe sailing in the UK as being like standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes.

[maser_spyder]

blueg33 said:

PHmember said:

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

That has to be a response from a member of my yacht club in Hamble (I will keep the actual club name quiet)

Buying the boat is nothing, its the running costs in terms of mooring fees, maintenance, craneage in and out, anti fouling (very expensive stuff), electronics and Gin and Tonics

I describe sailing in the UK as being like standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes.

Ah, depends what you've got I guess. Normally quoted at around 10% of the yacht price?

Anti-foul is quite cheap really. Lift out, cradle, rubbing it down, painting it on, crane back in again, is less so....

[SystemParanoia]

oooooh, ive found one of those moth things for £975 !

for someone whos never been on the water.. are they a good starting point?

[maser_spyder]

SystemParanoia said:

oooooh, ive found one of those moth things for £975 !

for someone whos never been on the water.. are they a good starting point?

No.

ETA - Unless you want to get (very) wet.

Edited by maser_spyder on Thursday 11th March 14:32

[Incredible Sulk]

maser_spyder said:

blueg33 said:

PHmember said:

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

That has to be a response from a member of my yacht club in Hamble (I will keep the actual club name quiet)

Buying the boat is nothing, its the running costs in terms of mooring fees, maintenance, craneage in and out, anti fouling (very expensive stuff), electronics and Gin and Tonics

I describe sailing in the UK as being like standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes.

Ah, depends what you've got I guess. Normally quoted at around 10% of the yacht price?

Anti-foul is quite cheap really. Lift out, cradle, rubbing it down, painting it on, crane back in again, is less so....

I was paying about £4.5k mooring fees for a 35 footer at Gosport, plus about £1k for a lift, block down, anti foul and hull polish (if the boatyard did the work, half that if I did the donkey work). Sundry expenses like sail repairs/ new sails every now and again and replacement string, were probably another couple of grand a year on average, taken over a number of years. So, yes about 10% of what the bare boat cost i.e. without sails and electronics and other removable bits and pieces. Best thing I ever did was to sell it. I'm pretty sure in the current economic climate I'd be struggling to pay the mooring fees.

[maser_spyder]

Incredible Sulk said:

maser_spyder said:

blueg33 said:

PHmember said:

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

That has to be a response from a member of my yacht club in Hamble (I will keep the actual club name quiet)

Buying the boat is nothing, its the running costs in terms of mooring fees, maintenance, craneage in and out, anti fouling (very expensive stuff), electronics and Gin and Tonics

I describe sailing in the UK as being like standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes.

Ah, depends what you've got I guess. Normally quoted at around 10% of the yacht price?

Anti-foul is quite cheap really. Lift out, cradle, rubbing it down, painting it on, crane back in again, is less so....

I was paying about £4.5k mooring fees for a 35 footer at Gosport, plus about £1k for a lift, block down, anti foul and hull polish (if the boatyard did the work, half that if I did the donkey work). Sundry expenses like sail repairs/ new sails every now and again and replacement string, were probably another couple of grand a year on average, taken over a number of years. So, yes about 10% of what the bare boat cost i.e. without sails and electronics and other removable bits and pieces. Best thing I ever did was to sell it. I'm pretty sure in the current economic climate I'd be struggling to pay the mooring fees.

Sounds about right. France quite a lot cheaper. Turkey/Greece even less so. Spain expensive (relatively).

I've just had my annual mooring fee bill, payable by the end of the month. Still, at least it's paid for in one hit!

We're down there quite a lot, so works out like a lot of cheap-ish holidays for us, but if you're not there much, it can work out a very expensive hobby.

Dinghy sailing is the way forward for a much cheaper sailing experience!

[SystemParanoia]

whats the maximum wind conditions a "dinghy" can sail in? im lookng but cant find anything.


how would you fare in ocean/coastal waters in one instead of in lakes?

[maser_spyder]

SystemParanoia said:

whats the maximum wind conditions a "dinghy" can sail in? im lookng but cant find anything.


how would you fare in ocean/coastal waters in one instead of in lakes?

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/Pages/default.aspx

Seriously, it's worth it.

[blueg33]

Incredible Sulk said:

maser_spyder said:

blueg33 said:

PHmember said:

It's to keep away the riff-raff that ask questions about cost dear boy.

That has to be a response from a member of my yacht club in Hamble (I will keep the actual club name quiet)

Buying the boat is nothing, its the running costs in terms of mooring fees, maintenance, craneage in and out, anti fouling (very expensive stuff), electronics and Gin and Tonics

I describe sailing in the UK as being like standing in a cold shower tearing up £20 notes.

Ah, depends what you've got I guess. Normally quoted at around 10% of the yacht price?

Anti-foul is quite cheap really. Lift out, cradle, rubbing it down, painting it on, crane back in again, is less so....

I was paying about £4.5k mooring fees for a 35 footer at Gosport, plus about £1k for a lift, block down, anti foul and hull polish (if the boatyard did the work, half that if I did the donkey work). Sundry expenses like sail repairs/ new sails every now and again and replacement string, were probably another couple of grand a year on average, taken over a number of years. So, yes about 10% of what the bare boat cost i.e. without sails and electronics and other removable bits and pieces. Best thing I ever did was to sell it. I'm pretty sure in the current economic climate I'd be struggling to pay the mooring fees.

I now have a harbour board mooring on the Hamble, saved about £10k pa in mooring fees


edited for speeling

Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 11th March 18:48

[SystemParanoia]

maser_spyder said:

SystemParanoia said:

whats the maximum wind conditions a "dinghy" can sail in? im lookng but cant find anything.


how would you fare in ocean/coastal waters in one instead of in lakes?

http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/Pages/default.aspx

Seriously, it's worth it.

thanks for the link.

just rememberd ( after a google search jogged my memory ) that theres a sailing club less than mile away from my pearants in sandwell valley.

ill hit those guys up with a million questions!

[Engineer1]

SystemParanoia said:

oooooh, ive found one of those moth things for £975 !

for someone whos never been on the water.. are they a good starting point?

Great for being in the water.

A point to consider with toppers is they aren't roomy and the boom is lowish meaning if you are tall or bulky you spend a lot of time crouched out of the way. A topper is fine for inshore sailing look at Abersoch for sailing. I would look at a Lazer if you like the topper idea as they are a bit more advanced and have more scope to develop your skills.