Thinking of starting boating
Discussion
I'm working in Portsmouth at the moment and there are lots of boats everywhere which has made me think that it would be fun to learn to sail. I've no experience with boats whatsoever however.
What training do I need to get to be safe and legal (and see if I enjoy it)? I've seen web sites that advertise "Day Skipper" courses. Is this the sort of thing I need, and if so, what questions should I ask when booking?
To sanity check if I can afford this as a hobby, what is the cheapest option for buying a boat that can safely transport 2 people across the English Channel to France and venture round the coast not too far out to sea (with 2 berths and basic cooking facilities), and how much roughly should I expect to pay to buy and maintain something in seaworthy condition and keep it somewhere? Also, how easy is it to charter a boat for a day / weekend and is this a better option than buying one?
Thanks
What training do I need to get to be safe and legal (and see if I enjoy it)? I've seen web sites that advertise "Day Skipper" courses. Is this the sort of thing I need, and if so, what questions should I ask when booking?
To sanity check if I can afford this as a hobby, what is the cheapest option for buying a boat that can safely transport 2 people across the English Channel to France and venture round the coast not too far out to sea (with 2 berths and basic cooking facilities), and how much roughly should I expect to pay to buy and maintain something in seaworthy condition and keep it somewhere? Also, how easy is it to charter a boat for a day / weekend and is this a better option than buying one?
Thanks
Crikey, that's a heck of a lot of questions....
To answer all of them will take hours, not for 10.15 on a Sunday night I'm afraid.
For starters - Training. Don't start with Day Skipper, this really requires some prior experience, even just being out on the water. Go for RYA competent crew, or get out on the water with somebody else who has a boat already, and (literally) learn the ropes.
Then, do your Day Skipper theory. This is ideally done whilst doing a bit if yachting too, as you match book learning with sea miles, it will all seem to click in to place if you are doing a bit of both at the same time.
Once you're confident on the water, do your day skipper.
I don't just say this because it's what the RYA recommend, it really does make sense this way.
Technically, you can go out on the water for your very first time doing day skipper and (probably) pass your day skipper course. However, you'll spend at least a couple of days learning the absolute basics, and the rest will be rushed. You won't have time to learn anything.
Going on a day skipper course with a bit of prior knowledge, at least on boat handling, etc. means you'll be asking some sensible questions, and will learn a heck of a lot more.
It's a really good idea to go on a day skipper course with a load of questions to ask an instructor. They won't mind a bit, and you'll learn so much more this way. Unless you've tried it yourself already, you won't even have the questions to ask.
Put it this way, on day two or three, you'll be expected to navigate, by night, using only a paper chart and any visible lights. You're skipper. Your responsibility. Instructor is there to stop you getting in to danger, but it's up to you to navigate.
There's no feasible way you can learn to do this in the two days.
A bit of prior learning will mean you're at least expecting what to expect!
First thing to do before anything else is get yourself on a VHF (DSC) radio course, which is essential if you're going to be on the water.
If you're keen to start straight away, get the RYA day skipper book and have a look through. You should be learning, at the least, the 'rules of the road' (otherwise known as COLREGS), navigation marks (bouys and lights), basic boat handling, boat lights and marks (there are a heck of a lot of these!).
By the end of your book learning, you should be able to tell if a boat is of a certain size, moving in a certain direction, is or is not a fishing boat, (trawling or casting/recovering nets), minesweeping, diving, is limited by ability to manoeuvre, or by draught, and by the sounds they make, if they're turning to port, starboard, engaging astern propulsion, or are kindly asking you to get the hell out of the way! You also need to learn how to forecast wind speed and direction, tides, tide heights (especially for sailing in the Solent!), and how to plot a course and calculate leeway, course over ground, and calculate your estimated position from waypoints.
It's easy to learn, but you should learn it all before day skipper. Sounds like a lot too, but a lot of it is common sense.
A lot of the best sailors are not necessarily those with the most experience, but those with the most common sense, and can think under pressure, quickly. 6 knots sounds slow, but you often have to think, fast, to avoid a collision in the Solent.
RYA training is NOT LIKE SCHOOL! The courses are generally run by real enthusiasts, keen to pass on a wealth of their knowledge. They'll take you to the best places, and teach you some neat tricks.
Know how to turn a boat round in its own length without moving the steering? You will by the end of the course!
As for boats, that's another thing entirely....
To answer all of them will take hours, not for 10.15 on a Sunday night I'm afraid.
For starters - Training. Don't start with Day Skipper, this really requires some prior experience, even just being out on the water. Go for RYA competent crew, or get out on the water with somebody else who has a boat already, and (literally) learn the ropes.
Then, do your Day Skipper theory. This is ideally done whilst doing a bit if yachting too, as you match book learning with sea miles, it will all seem to click in to place if you are doing a bit of both at the same time.
Once you're confident on the water, do your day skipper.
I don't just say this because it's what the RYA recommend, it really does make sense this way.
Technically, you can go out on the water for your very first time doing day skipper and (probably) pass your day skipper course. However, you'll spend at least a couple of days learning the absolute basics, and the rest will be rushed. You won't have time to learn anything.
Going on a day skipper course with a bit of prior knowledge, at least on boat handling, etc. means you'll be asking some sensible questions, and will learn a heck of a lot more.
It's a really good idea to go on a day skipper course with a load of questions to ask an instructor. They won't mind a bit, and you'll learn so much more this way. Unless you've tried it yourself already, you won't even have the questions to ask.
Put it this way, on day two or three, you'll be expected to navigate, by night, using only a paper chart and any visible lights. You're skipper. Your responsibility. Instructor is there to stop you getting in to danger, but it's up to you to navigate.
There's no feasible way you can learn to do this in the two days.
A bit of prior learning will mean you're at least expecting what to expect!
First thing to do before anything else is get yourself on a VHF (DSC) radio course, which is essential if you're going to be on the water.
If you're keen to start straight away, get the RYA day skipper book and have a look through. You should be learning, at the least, the 'rules of the road' (otherwise known as COLREGS), navigation marks (bouys and lights), basic boat handling, boat lights and marks (there are a heck of a lot of these!).
By the end of your book learning, you should be able to tell if a boat is of a certain size, moving in a certain direction, is or is not a fishing boat, (trawling or casting/recovering nets), minesweeping, diving, is limited by ability to manoeuvre, or by draught, and by the sounds they make, if they're turning to port, starboard, engaging astern propulsion, or are kindly asking you to get the hell out of the way! You also need to learn how to forecast wind speed and direction, tides, tide heights (especially for sailing in the Solent!), and how to plot a course and calculate leeway, course over ground, and calculate your estimated position from waypoints.
It's easy to learn, but you should learn it all before day skipper. Sounds like a lot too, but a lot of it is common sense.
A lot of the best sailors are not necessarily those with the most experience, but those with the most common sense, and can think under pressure, quickly. 6 knots sounds slow, but you often have to think, fast, to avoid a collision in the Solent.
RYA training is NOT LIKE SCHOOL! The courses are generally run by real enthusiasts, keen to pass on a wealth of their knowledge. They'll take you to the best places, and teach you some neat tricks.
Know how to turn a boat round in its own length without moving the steering? You will by the end of the course!
As for boats, that's another thing entirely....
OK, I'll add a quick bit about boats....
Don't buy cheap, buy quality.
An old Moody will be a much better sailing yacht than a newer Bavaria (sorry!).
As for channel crossings, don't even think about it yet. You've got a lot to learn first.
For an absolute budget option, you could be on the water for about £10 - £15k for a cheap, seaworthy, basic yacht. You can buy cheaper, but it really requires more experience of what to look for and how to work it. A more modern, slightly more expensive yacht will generally be easier to learn on.
Moorings are expensive for a pontoon (very roughly start at £3k for a small yacht), cheaper for a swinging mooring or trot (out on the river, or in Portsmouth harbour say - you need a dinghy to get on board) which will be around £1000 - £1500.
Or, for a smaller boat (normally with a lifting keel), you should be able to get a spot out of the water where the boat lives on a trailer and you can launch with a car. These start from about £500, but are a bit of a faff for a day out on the water.
There's quite a few smaller marinas in Portsmouth that are inexpensive and friendly, prices are generally (Haslar / Port Solent aside) a little cheaper than the rest of the Solent.
One very final thing, I'll be up and down from the Solent over the next couple of months, drop me a pm if you fancy a day on the water. That goes for anybody else too, happy to give a PHer a taster for what is a fine hobby!
Don't buy cheap, buy quality.
An old Moody will be a much better sailing yacht than a newer Bavaria (sorry!).
As for channel crossings, don't even think about it yet. You've got a lot to learn first.
For an absolute budget option, you could be on the water for about £10 - £15k for a cheap, seaworthy, basic yacht. You can buy cheaper, but it really requires more experience of what to look for and how to work it. A more modern, slightly more expensive yacht will generally be easier to learn on.
Moorings are expensive for a pontoon (very roughly start at £3k for a small yacht), cheaper for a swinging mooring or trot (out on the river, or in Portsmouth harbour say - you need a dinghy to get on board) which will be around £1000 - £1500.
Or, for a smaller boat (normally with a lifting keel), you should be able to get a spot out of the water where the boat lives on a trailer and you can launch with a car. These start from about £500, but are a bit of a faff for a day out on the water.
There's quite a few smaller marinas in Portsmouth that are inexpensive and friendly, prices are generally (Haslar / Port Solent aside) a little cheaper than the rest of the Solent.
One very final thing, I'll be up and down from the Solent over the next couple of months, drop me a pm if you fancy a day on the water. That goes for anybody else too, happy to give a PHer a taster for what is a fine hobby!
Why do you want to start on big stuff? Have you considered a dinghy, it's far easier and cheaper to learn in one and the skills there will allow you to make the jump to bigger stuff with ease.
Before opening you wallet and buying a boat, lots of yachtie stuff (how much for a coat!!) and various RYA training courses why not try a flotilla holiday? You'll get to sail around the med with experienced sailors at hand if you get into trouble.
Before opening you wallet and buying a boat, lots of yachtie stuff (how much for a coat!!) and various RYA training courses why not try a flotilla holiday? You'll get to sail around the med with experienced sailors at hand if you get into trouble.
Fittster said:
Why do you want to start on big stuff? Have you considered a dinghy, it's far easier and cheaper to learn in one and the skills there will allow you to make the jump to bigger stuff with ease.
Before opening you wallet and buying a boat, lots of yachtie stuff (how much for a coat!!) and various RYA training courses why not try a flotilla holiday? You'll get to sail around the med with experienced sailors at hand if you get into trouble.
Very good reason for not dinghy sailing - you get wet!Before opening you wallet and buying a boat, lots of yachtie stuff (how much for a coat!!) and various RYA training courses why not try a flotilla holiday? You'll get to sail around the med with experienced sailors at hand if you get into trouble.
I totally agree though, if it's feasible, learn the sailing basics on a dinghy, tides and navigation can then come later.
Bonus for dinghy sailing, you need;
Tow bar
Dinghy
Bouyancy aid
Water
Few hundred quid at very most.
Thought id add some of my limited knowledge of sailing onto you, my first experience of sailing was 2008 i did a week competent crew course, its part of the RYA sylabus and is aimed at an introduction to sailing for the complete novice but you also come out of it with a certificate and satisfaction that youve learnt something and had a go at everything from mooring to sailing at night.
Then i did a weeks general sailing to improve my skills and gain some logbook hours for future sailing this was a nice laid back week and again just refreshes everything.
Last year i then completed my Day skipper and VHF radio licence which was great satisfaction passing the course but like a driving licence the learning starts here.
Ive done a weeks sailing this year as skipper/mate and its quite daunting at first knowing that id only done 3 weeks sailing prior to taking out 5 novices along with another day skipper for a weeks sailing in the solent. But once into the flow of things i was more than happy teaching what i knew to everyone.
So my tip - qualifications are nothing without experience. get the courses out the way and for your first trip on your own ask someone with more experience to be your mate to assist in them situations where your mind goes blank.
Sailing is great fun i just wish i could do more but it can also go wrong very quickly.
Then i did a weeks general sailing to improve my skills and gain some logbook hours for future sailing this was a nice laid back week and again just refreshes everything.
Last year i then completed my Day skipper and VHF radio licence which was great satisfaction passing the course but like a driving licence the learning starts here.
Ive done a weeks sailing this year as skipper/mate and its quite daunting at first knowing that id only done 3 weeks sailing prior to taking out 5 novices along with another day skipper for a weeks sailing in the solent. But once into the flow of things i was more than happy teaching what i knew to everyone.
So my tip - qualifications are nothing without experience. get the courses out the way and for your first trip on your own ask someone with more experience to be your mate to assist in them situations where your mind goes blank.
Sailing is great fun i just wish i could do more but it can also go wrong very quickly.
Spot on advice from all there. However I cannot stress enough learn to sail in a dinghy...it's much more easy to understand what is going on and I guarantee it will make you a better and faster sailor, and more receptive to what a bigger boat is trying to tell you when something's not quite right!
Budget wise 5k will get you a 2 berther suitable for weekends away, it will probably fit on a trailer so winter storage is easier, however you will be limited in speed, range, and the ability to deal with heavy weather. £10k will get you 4 berths, an inboard engine, and the ability to go cross channel or west country.
Bilge (twin) keels will enable you to "dry out", will be more forgiving of newbie mistakes, and offer cheaper moorings in Portsmouth harbour (about £800). Fin keelers are the opposite but sail better.
Factor in all the safety gear, foul weather gear, reliable electroincs and training into your plan too and enjoy!
Budget wise 5k will get you a 2 berther suitable for weekends away, it will probably fit on a trailer so winter storage is easier, however you will be limited in speed, range, and the ability to deal with heavy weather. £10k will get you 4 berths, an inboard engine, and the ability to go cross channel or west country.
Bilge (twin) keels will enable you to "dry out", will be more forgiving of newbie mistakes, and offer cheaper moorings in Portsmouth harbour (about £800). Fin keelers are the opposite but sail better.
Factor in all the safety gear, foul weather gear, reliable electroincs and training into your plan too and enjoy!
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