Discussion
I'm looking to buy a day sailing dinghy. It needs an outboard, is easy to sail for me and my two young sons. We would launch from Lyme Regis. We would use it for pottering around the bay and a little further afield. May be doing some fishing from it and the like. I used to sail GP14's and windsurf but I'm really struggling to come up with a shortlist of the type of dinghy we need. I don't want to spend too much but it would need to be safe for the kids around £3.5K max to include towing trailor and outboard.
Thanks
Thanks
Quite fancy a Hawk myself, but I think launching it from a trailer without a few adults about would be tricky.
Are you planing to leave it on a mooring or launch it every time you go out?
What about something like:
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.ph...
Are you planing to leave it on a mooring or launch it every time you go out?
What about something like:
http://sailingdinghies.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.ph...
You need a Cat, and one of the very best boats for ease of use / price / loading / space / indestructible / stability / pace is the laser funboat. Nielson bought about 1000, RYA approved training boats and i have taught 100's of people of all ages ti sail in them of the beach in open water..
Alot of those images are fro, our school. http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4GG...
Alot of those images are fro, our school. http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&rlz=1T4GG...
Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 13th July 12:35
OK, radical idea.
Try and find Wharram Tiki 21. One just completed the Jester Challenge so it's got the stability and space the OP is after, probably a bit iffy for trailering but then something big and stable is always going to be a challenge to tow and launch single handed.
Wharram Tiki 21
Realistically I think it's a case of something smaller than ideal like a Wayfarer which can be trailered or something bigger which is left on a mooring during the season.
Try and find Wharram Tiki 21. One just completed the Jester Challenge so it's got the stability and space the OP is after, probably a bit iffy for trailering but then something big and stable is always going to be a challenge to tow and launch single handed.
Wharram Tiki 21
Realistically I think it's a case of something smaller than ideal like a Wayfarer which can be trailered or something bigger which is left on a mooring during the season.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Rum Runner said:
You need a Cat, and one of the very best boats for ease of use / price / loading / space / indestructible / stability / pace is the laser funboat.
Outboard Motor Compatible, as per OP request 
Reviews are luke-warm on the day to day living with them for Pottering around on too. Laser Funboat Dinghy many of which I can understand (comfortable, tacking etc)
Wayfarer type would be a good bet and a good network of bits n pieces for them too.
dons flamesuit.
The only reason the school manages to stay open is due to these boats as we can operate in a huge wind range plus the ability to teach sitting in one as there is enough space yet very easy for 8 years to single hand. Given the stability it means the kids can spend more time learning to steer and figure out wind angle / sail settings instead of spending most of the time worrying about keeping it upright...we send them out in breeze gusty conditions when other sailing schools are all ashore. Very Very easy to right given the handles on the underside and the boom is high enough that adults don't bang there heads. The other school that operates off the beach has had at least one airlift per season, we have had none since 2002 using these boats.
There is a technique to tacking them and if you sit a long way back light airs they are slow, and the rear will not sing as you go through the tack if all the weight is there . Again it depends if the person sailing is used to cats if not and they review is from a none Cat experience they are not going to give a realistic view especially if the try and point like Monohull...
Another great boat and best bang for your £ is a Dart 16. Nice and easy reefing, can go like a rocket of pootle about with ease.
Try wrestling with a wayfarer on a slip or worse sandy beach, you will soon be thinking it is a bad idea...that's a 4 strong man job on softish sand !
Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 13th July 16:48
Thank you all for your comments.
I like the look for the Dart 16
I rememeber sailing a similar cat when I was 15 with my younger brother and it was great fun then.
Are they easy to right if capsized and can you fit an outboard?
Reviews are luke-warm on the day to day living with them for Pottering around on too. Laser Funboat Dinghy many of which I can understand (comfortable, tacking etc)
Wayfarer type would be a good bet and a good network of bits n pieces for them too.
dons flamesuit.We have outboard brackets which fit on the existing rudder stock, very stable and no centre board.... The Net work for Funboat is huge as it is a main Laser product..also sport rig if you want to go faster. Also when the kids surf them up the beach / dock there is no centre board to rip out and the rudder kicks up.
The only reason the school manages to stay open is due to these boats as we can operate in a huge wind range plus the ability to teach sitting in one as there is enough space yet very easy for 8 years to single hand. Given the stability it means the kids can spend more time learning to steer and figure out wind angle / sail settings instead of spending most of the time worrying about keeping it upright...we send them out in breeze gusty conditions when other sailing schools are all ashore. Very Very easy to right given the handles on the underside and the boom is high enough that adults don't bang there heads. The other school that operates off the beach has had at least one airlift per season, we have had none since 2002 using these boats.
There is a technique to tacking them and if you sit a long way back light airs they are slow, and the rear will not sing as you go through the tack if all the weight is there . Again it depends if the person sailing is used to cats if not and they review is from a none Cat experience they are not going to give a realistic view especially if the try and point like Monohull...
Another great boat and best bang for your £ is a Dart 16. Nice and easy reefing, can go like a rocket of pootle about with ease.
Try wrestling with a wayfarer on a slip or worse sandy beach, you will soon be thinking it is a bad idea...that's a 4 strong man job on softish sand !
I like the look for the Dart 16
I rememeber sailing a similar cat when I was 15 with my younger brother and it was great fun then.
Are they easy to right if capsized and can you fit an outboard?
Rum Runner said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Rum Runner said:
You need a Cat, and one of the very best boats for ease of use / price / loading / space / indestructible / stability / pace is the laser funboat.
Outboard Motor Compatible, as per OP request Reviews are luke-warm on the day to day living with them for Pottering around on too. Laser Funboat Dinghy many of which I can understand (comfortable, tacking etc)
Wayfarer type would be a good bet and a good network of bits n pieces for them too.
dons flamesuit.
The only reason the school manages to stay open is due to these boats as we can operate in a huge wind range plus the ability to teach sitting in one as there is enough space yet very easy for 8 years to single hand. Given the stability it means the kids can spend more time learning to steer and figure out wind angle / sail settings instead of spending most of the time worrying about keeping it upright...we send them out in breeze gusty conditions when other sailing schools are all ashore. Very Very easy to right given the handles on the underside and the boom is high enough that adults don't bang there heads. The other school that operates off the beach has had at least one airlift per season, we have had none since 2002 using these boats.
There is a technique to tacking them and if you sit a long way back light airs they are slow, and the rear will not sing as you go through the tack if all the weight is there . Again it depends if the person sailing is used to cats if not and they review is from a none Cat experience they are not going to give a realistic view especially if the try and point like Monohull...
Another great boat and best bang for your £ is a Dart 16. Nice and easy reefing, can go like a rocket of pootle about with ease.
Try wrestling with a wayfarer on a slip or worse sandy beach, you will soon be thinking it is a bad idea...that's a 4 strong man job on softish sand !
Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 13th July 16:48
Also like the look of the funboat and I think the lyme regis sailing club has a few
Reviews are luke-warm on the day to day living with them for Pottering around on too. Laser Funboat Dinghy many of which I can understand (comfortable, tacking etc)
Wayfarer type would be a good bet and a good network of bits n pieces for them too.
dons flamesuit.We have outboard brackets which fit on the existing rudder stock, very stable and no centre board.... The Net work for Funboat is huge as it is a main Laser product..also sport rig if you want to go faster. Also when the kids surf them up the beach / dock there is no centre board to rip out and the rudder kicks up.
The only reason the school manages to stay open is due to these boats as we can operate in a huge wind range plus the ability to teach sitting in one as there is enough space yet very easy for 8 years to single hand. Given the stability it means the kids can spend more time learning to steer and figure out wind angle / sail settings instead of spending most of the time worrying about keeping it upright...we send them out in breeze gusty conditions when other sailing schools are all ashore. Very Very easy to right given the handles on the underside and the boom is high enough that adults don't bang there heads. The other school that operates off the beach has had at least one airlift per season, we have had none since 2002 using these boats.
There is a technique to tacking them and if you sit a long way back light airs they are slow, and the rear will not sing as you go through the tack if all the weight is there . Again it depends if the person sailing is used to cats if not and they review is from a none Cat experience they are not going to give a realistic view especially if the try and point like Monohull...
Another great boat and best bang for your £ is a Dart 16. Nice and easy reefing, can go like a rocket of pootle about with ease.
Try wrestling with a wayfarer on a slip or worse sandy beach, you will soon be thinking it is a bad idea...that's a 4 strong man job on softish sand !
Rum Runner said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Rum Runner said:
You need a Cat, and one of the very best boats for ease of use / price / loading / space / indestructible / stability / pace is the laser funboat.
Outboard Motor Compatible, as per OP request Reviews are luke-warm on the day to day living with them for Pottering around on too. Laser Funboat Dinghy many of which I can understand (comfortable, tacking etc)
Wayfarer type would be a good bet and a good network of bits n pieces for them too.
dons flamesuit.
The only reason the school manages to stay open is due to these boats as we can operate in a huge wind range plus the ability to teach sitting in one as there is enough space yet very easy for 8 years to single hand. Given the stability it means the kids can spend more time learning to steer and figure out wind angle / sail settings instead of spending most of the time worrying about keeping it upright...we send them out in breeze gusty conditions when other sailing schools are all ashore. Very Very easy to right given the handles on the underside and the boom is high enough that adults don't bang there heads. The other school that operates off the beach has had at least one airlift per season, we have had none since 2002 using these boats.
There is a technique to tacking them and if you sit a long way back light airs they are slow, and the rear will not sing as you go through the tack if all the weight is there . Again it depends if the person sailing is used to cats if not and they review is from a none Cat experience they are not going to give a realistic view especially if the try and point like Monohull...
Another great boat and best bang for your £ is a Dart 16. Nice and easy reefing, can go like a rocket of pootle about with ease.
Try wrestling with a wayfarer on a slip or worse sandy beach, you will soon be thinking it is a bad idea...that's a 4 strong man job on softish sand !
Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 13th July 16:48
Jonny TVR
The Dart is easy enough to right if you have in region of 13 stone weight. But to be honest unless you are doing something quite silly they are very predictable. We take them out in all weathers with reefs in and you can single hand it on the wire. They are a great troop carrier and we take lots of underprivileged kids out at time for blast sometimes 3-4 and myself.
The control lines could not simpler, no boom, rudders kick up, no centre board, made of poly prop, great reefing system.
I have seen one with outboard bracket to go on the cross beam, with rudders and bar flicked upwards out of the way.
Fun Boats and Dart 16 are far the best boats for working off a beach....given many things but shore break being one. No messing with the trailer in the water ...
The Dart is easy enough to right if you have in region of 13 stone weight. But to be honest unless you are doing something quite silly they are very predictable. We take them out in all weathers with reefs in and you can single hand it on the wire. They are a great troop carrier and we take lots of underprivileged kids out at time for blast sometimes 3-4 and myself.
The control lines could not simpler, no boom, rudders kick up, no centre board, made of poly prop, great reefing system.
I have seen one with outboard bracket to go on the cross beam, with rudders and bar flicked upwards out of the way.
Fun Boats and Dart 16 are far the best boats for working off a beach....given many things but shore break being one. No messing with the trailer in the water ...
Edited by Rum Runner on Wednesday 14th July 10:18
Totally Yes, I have used Drascombs and Swift 18's open looks identical to a dabber / lugger. We even used to hire out the Swift 18 open which had to many issue of people dipping the toe rail under in a gust and it filling up and sinking around them. Even to the point of all the family in the water hanging onto the gunwale which was awash.
You try fiddling around with one of these on soft sand or a shoreline with any shorebreak or trying to get it out of the water on the trailer when it the wheels are awash. The danger of the boat hitting the kids getting in and out given the weight of the boat in any shore break is a issue and filling with water whilst doing it. The time spent rigging also cuts into your sailing time and by then the kids are bored.
I have spent 1000's of hours teaching off the beach in all manner of craft... Using a boat inland or on coastal estuary is a totally different thing from beach use. Whilst your out sailing the wind swings or tide turns your landing back on the shore can be very different to when you set off...
The thing is have you ever sailed a good Cat off a beach ?.
I used to race fast Asymmetric dinghy's a lot (Youth team 420's from the early 80's)
and still teach in them as well and its hard work..and they capsize a lot on the shoreline often resulting in a broken rig.
We go fishing in the dart as it has a nice flat and easy deck/ tramp we can potter along with Jib furled in a reef in the main, go as slow as you like, or very quickly. Or go out to the Islands drop the pick and use it as a floating sunbed.
Most people here also leave there Dart 16's on the beach as they don't blow over on the trailer and are fairly indestructible and everything worth nicking comes off in 2 mins. Old tyre buried in the sand with chain and lock around the cross beam.
You try fiddling around with one of these on soft sand or a shoreline with any shorebreak or trying to get it out of the water on the trailer when it the wheels are awash. The danger of the boat hitting the kids getting in and out given the weight of the boat in any shore break is a issue and filling with water whilst doing it. The time spent rigging also cuts into your sailing time and by then the kids are bored.
I have spent 1000's of hours teaching off the beach in all manner of craft... Using a boat inland or on coastal estuary is a totally different thing from beach use. Whilst your out sailing the wind swings or tide turns your landing back on the shore can be very different to when you set off...
The thing is have you ever sailed a good Cat off a beach ?.
I used to race fast Asymmetric dinghy's a lot (Youth team 420's from the early 80's)
and still teach in them as well and its hard work..and they capsize a lot on the shoreline often resulting in a broken rig.
We go fishing in the dart as it has a nice flat and easy deck/ tramp we can potter along with Jib furled in a reef in the main, go as slow as you like, or very quickly. Or go out to the Islands drop the pick and use it as a floating sunbed.
Most people here also leave there Dart 16's on the beach as they don't blow over on the trailer and are fairly indestructible and everything worth nicking comes off in 2 mins. Old tyre buried in the sand with chain and lock around the cross beam.
Edited by Rum Runner on Wednesday 14th July 12:55
OP. Whichever way you play it (Cat / Monohull with a Bermuda rig / Monhull with a lug or gaff rig) you're still going to take the best part of an hour just getting the damn thing rigged and on the water and the same again at the end of the day. IMHO the critical thing is ease of handling when launching, retrieving and in shallow water. Although my initial thought was for a Wayfarer they can be a challenge to launch and retrieve without some additional help. I'd suggest looking for things which haven't got too much mass or are easily manageable.
A couple of options...
RS Vision
Laser Stratos
A couple of options...
RS Vision
Laser Stratos
unless the geography has changed in changed in the last few years i think that lyme regis has a prety good public slipway without breakers and the like to launch from.
From the OP's OP i don't think that a beach cat is entirely what he is after. and we have over 150 F16 and F18 class cats at my club as well as a growing number of Nacra 20's too!
Cats are great fun but you sit on rather than in, they don't make for a relaxing family sail around the bay and everyone needs to wear wetsuits etc.
From the OP's OP i don't think that a beach cat is entirely what he is after. and we have over 150 F16 and F18 class cats at my club as well as a growing number of Nacra 20's too!
Cats are great fun but you sit on rather than in, they don't make for a relaxing family sail around the bay and everyone needs to wear wetsuits etc.
Its been I while since I was last a Lyme Regis and the Cob sort of looked different in memory probably my age.... We have a Nacra 20 as well, quite a angry thing it is . I take my 3 year old out in the Dart and stick a reef in and half jib and go for a potter even taken our Border Collie out before now.... anyway.
With Regards to the Vision and Stratos, we have a Vision and it is mega heavy given its poly prop (4 man drag in soft sand, very tippy and I really do not like teaching in it. It struggles to go up wind in any form if there is anything other than a light breeze, if there in nobody dangling off the wire. Very slow and sluggish boat all round, heels over rather than speeds up. Rigging is also a fiddly job, string everywhere.On plus side it is robust given it is made of poly prop and the only reason we hire it out, otherwise if it was GRP it would be in a skip by now. It has lost 2 rigs due to capsizes on the shoreline.
Stratos is better but still quite heavy for beach launch / recovery, Laser 2000 is a better option and I would say probably the best type of that style of boat, but again it is GRP so be very careful when loading on and off the trailer on the shoreline.
With Regards to the Vision and Stratos, we have a Vision and it is mega heavy given its poly prop (4 man drag in soft sand, very tippy and I really do not like teaching in it. It struggles to go up wind in any form if there is anything other than a light breeze, if there in nobody dangling off the wire. Very slow and sluggish boat all round, heels over rather than speeds up. Rigging is also a fiddly job, string everywhere.On plus side it is robust given it is made of poly prop and the only reason we hire it out, otherwise if it was GRP it would be in a skip by now. It has lost 2 rigs due to capsizes on the shoreline.
Stratos is better but still quite heavy for beach launch / recovery, Laser 2000 is a better option and I would say probably the best type of that style of boat, but again it is GRP so be very careful when loading on and off the trailer on the shoreline.
Edited by Rum Runner on Wednesday 14th July 19:23
XJSJohn some days I wish the dog was not keen on the water as we only live about 2 miles from the beach when I go down in the car I spend most of my time trying to stop him going in so I don't have that horrid wet sandy dog / car syndrome....nasty especially with salt water...certainly he will not be venturing in the new VXR8 a bought last week....
Edited by Rum Runner on Wednesday 14th July 14:03
Rum Runner said:
Stratos is better but still quite heavy for beach launch / recovery, Laser 2000 is a better option and I would say probably the best type of that style of boat, but again it is GRP so be very careful when loading on and off the trailer on the shoreline.
RS200 or 400 maybe a shout as well? If you want something light to play about with the kids in a topper would be a dirt cheap option, obviously not designed for multiple occupancey but I've taught in them. Just keep your weight back! Indestructable and an excellent race scene as well. Prefer them to the funboats as they are nicer to sail.
Failing that I second the dart 16 option, got a few in our club for training now and very safe and stable with the added fun of a wire.
Edited by happygoron on Wednesday 14th July 14:07
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff