RAF Practice Shooting Down Civil Aircraft

[Geneve]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10750260

Presumably that explains the mysterious Notam over Cornwall last week?

No doubt these exercises have been taking place for years. Even before 9/11 the RAF reputedly used civil aircraft for training purposes.

Anyone ever been aware of being used for target practice?

[jmorgan]

I would be surprised if it was not practiced.

[ninja-lewis]

What's special about this? I assumed they simply practised against regular RAF trasnport flights as well as in the Falklands. Is it this only in the news because of the VIPs watching?

[Simpo Two]

'The exercise involved two Eurofighter Typhoons, scrambled from an RAF base in the UK, tailing an airborne jet. Home Secretary Theresa May is believed to have taken part in the exercise.'


I wonder which one she was flying?

Coningsby to London flat out - wonder how much notice they'd need? US fighters were scrambled on 9/11 but didn't make it in time.

It must be pretty brain-spinning to be a military pilot ordered to shoot down an airliner... you'd probably ponder the odds of a terrorist hacking the freqency.

Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 25th July 19:08

[davepoth]

They are apparently trying to find ways of making the aircraft crash-land (by blowing up the engines). I imagine the solution will involve remote access to engage the autopilot and point the plane away from anything important.

[eharding]

Geneve said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10750260

Presumably that explains the mysterious Notam over Cornwall last week?

No doubt these exercises have been taking place for years. Even before 9/11 the RAF reputedly used civil aircraft for training purposes.

Anyone ever been aware of being used for target practice?

Which mysterious NOTAM? - there have been notifications of Fighter Controller training over Cornwall and the Western Approaches at regular intervals for ages.

I believe there was an understanding between BA and the RAF about Concorde being used for supersonic intercept practice - I doubt that when it happens any passenger is likely to know anything about it.

[anonymous-user]

davepoth said:

I imagine the solution will involve remote access to engage the autopilot

That's some imagination you have there.

[Simpo Two]

el stovey said:

davepoth said:

I imagine the solution will involve remote access to engage the autopilot

That's some imagination you have there.

Anything is possible when HM Govt puts its mind to it. Eventually of course the remote gizmo will go wrong and the airliner will blow up of its own accord. Al Qaeda will get the blame so it doesn't matter.

[aeropilot]

davepoth said:

They are apparently trying to find ways of making the aircraft crash-land (by blowing up the engines). I imagine the solution will involve remote access to engage the autopilot and point the plane away from anything important.

I'm sure given that almost all current civ airliners effectively fly as a 'manned' UAV of sorts, it won't actually take much for airlines or the two major airliner manufacturers to create a mil UAV style, full remote take-over control station at the Boeing or Airbus factory whereby a duty chief pilot can override the a/c and remote land it without anyone in the a/c being able to interfere.....??

Not so sure on the crash landing theory though by a mil a/c taking out the engines or anything.....again these modern FBW civ aircraft don't fly well in any sort of controlled way if they take any serious systems damage.....

[Eric Mc]

I remember Air Anglia (now absorbed into Flybe via Air UK) complaining about their F-27s being bounced by USAF Aggressor Squadron F-5E Tiger IIs operating out of RAF Alconbury in the mid 1970s.

Nothing new here.

Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th July 09:30

[jmorgan]

aeropilot said:

davepoth said:

They are apparently trying to find ways of making the aircraft crash-land (by blowing up the engines). I imagine the solution will involve remote access to engage the autopilot and point the plane away from anything important.

I'm sure given that almost all current civ airliners effectively fly as a 'manned' UAV of sorts, it won't actually take much for airlines or the two major airliner manufacturers to create a mil UAV style, full remote take-over control station at the Boeing or Airbus factory whereby a duty chief pilot can override the a/c and remote land it without anyone in the a/c being able to interfere.....??

Not so sure on the crash landing theory though by a mil a/c taking out the engines or anything.....again these modern FBW civ aircraft don't fly well in any sort of controlled way if they take any serious systems damage.....

Or a good way not to become martyrs. Nick the codes....

OK, I know not how or if this would work. Just that if such a system was ever put in place, how long before its is used against you.

[Vipers]

aeropilot said:

davepoth said:

They are apparently trying to find ways of making the aircraft crash-land (by blowing up the engines). I imagine the solution will involve remote access to engage the autopilot and point the plane away from anything important.

I'm sure given that almost all current civ airliners effectively fly as a 'manned' UAV of sorts, it won't actually take much for airlines or the two major airliner manufacturers to create a mil UAV style, full remote take-over control station at the Boeing or Airbus factory whereby a duty chief pilot can override the a/c and remote land it without anyone in the a/c being able to interfere.....??

BUT what if the terrorists get hold of the gizmo, and take over the plane remotely?

[Simpo Two]

Vipers said:

BUT what if the terrorists get hold of the gizmo, and take over the plane remotely?

You just stop anyone who looks like this getting on...

[Vipers]

Simpo Two said:

Vipers said:

BUT what if the terrorists get hold of the gizmo, and take over the plane remotely?

You just stop anyone who looks like this getting on...

Isnt that the French bloke "Parrot" or something?

[GSP]

Simpo Two said:

It must be pretty brain-spinning to be a military pilot ordered to shoot down an airliner... you'd probably ponder the odds of a terrorist hacking the freqency.

Edited by Simpo Two on Sunday 25th July 19:08

4 Planes, 2 hit the WTC complex, 1 hit the pentagon.

What about the plane that went down in the middle of nowhere?

Military jets seen in the area literally moments before the plane blew up?

Yet none of the other hijacked 9/11 planes had explosives on board, alledgedly.

Lot of people claim that was the first passenger plane in history to be 'removed' from the sky for national security.

[Eric Mc]

There was a strong possibility that the wayward Helios Boeing 737 would have to be shot down by Hellenic Air Force F-16s a few years ago. Also, when golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet suffered a decompression failure the aircraft was shadowed by USAF F-16s until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Fighter pilots do have to deal with situations like this but as far as I know, there is no offically recorded incident where they had to bring a civilian aircraft down in these types of circumstances by gunfire or air to air missiles.

Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th July 10:06

[croyde]

Didn't the flight recorder on the downed plane record a scene to made it seem as if the passengers had tried to regain control of the aircraft. Also mobile phone calls from the airliner that were from passengers saying that they were going to fight back.

[S3_Graham]

Eric Mc said:

There was a strong possibility that the wayward Helios Boeing 737 would have to be shot down by Hellenic Air Force F-16s a few years ago. Also, when golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet suffered a decompression failure the aircraft was shadowed by USAF F-16s until it ran out of fuel and crashed.

Fighter pilots do have to deal with situations like this but as far as I know, there is no offically recorded incident where they had to bring a civilian aircraft down in these types of circumstances by gunfire or air to air missiles.

Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 26th July 10:06

Pain Stewarts was due to his hunting activities was it not?

I heard he went shooting, put all of his catch in the back on 'dry ice' as dry ice lets of gases, which put them all unconcious.

[jmorgan]

croyde said:

Didn't the flight recorder on the downed plane record a scene to made it seem as if the passengers had tried to regain control of the aircraft. Also mobile phone calls from the airliner that were from passengers saying that they were going to fight back.

Careful where you dig, many conspiracies grues are waiting to pounce.....

[Simpo Two]

GSP said:

Simpo Two said:

It must be pretty brain-spinning to be a military pilot ordered to shoot down an airliner... you'd probably ponder the odds of a terrorist hacking the freqency.

4 Planes, 2 hit the WTC complex, 1 hit the pentagon.

What about the plane that went down in the middle of nowhere?

Military jets seen in the area literally moments before the plane blew up?

Yet none of the other hijacked 9/11 planes had explosives on board, alledgedly.

Lot of people claim that was the first passenger plane in history to be 'removed' from the sky for national security.

I'm not saying it can't/doesn't happen, but to be a military pilot, trained for years to attack enemy aircraft, and then told by your controller 'shoot down the 747' you'd want to make very sure he meant it.

S3_Graham said:

Pain Stewarts was due to his hunting activities was it not?

I heard he went shooting, put all of his catch in the back on 'dry ice' as dry ice lets of gases, which put them all unconcious.

Dry ice is solid CO2; I suppose if you sat in a room of it you'd eventually asphyxiate. Wrong kind of ice!

Edited by Simpo Two on Monday 26th July 10:43