The Mallard

[GEORDIE_BOY]

Planning on taking my son to Shildon next week to see The Mallard as it was something I've always loved. I remember going to see it at Scaborough when I was 5 and its always stuck with me to this day.

I was showing him some videos on youtube of it (in between fireman sam lol) and came across several videos of it being pulled up to Shildon in June from York behind Tornado. Is it just me that thinks it is a shame that she is unable to move her self and has to be pulled? This is probably the greatest steam train of all time and is now confined to being a museum piece. The cost to restore The scotsman I believe has exceeded the cost of building Tornado from scratch so the chances of Mallard being brought back to steam are slim.

Anyone else got a view on it?

Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKHTV2CodeE&fea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtUCbV1jgy4&fea...

And how it shoudl be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvlFeE38WN0&fea...

And the reunion in 2008, Again all the other A4s in steam and whistling, yet Mallard stayed silent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5fe1P6ulvE&fea...

[Zad]

I think there is a bit of a dilemma with Mallard. Because it is a specific loco, and holder of the steam record, they wish to preserve it rather than restore it. Their argument being that there are several other Gresley A4 locos in steam and capable of regular running and it doesn't really matter if parts wear out, they can be replaced. Whereas if Mallard's parts wear, that is part of the original machine gone forever. I'm sure that many parts already have been replaced, but I can kinda see their point. At least it was moved to Shildon under dignified steam power. Maybe when financial conditions allow, it will be allowed to be restored to a point where it can at least steam up.

Over the summer there has been a regular steam service around here. 3 days a week it starts earliyish morning from York, does a circuit of West Yorks, then over to Scarborough via York. Returning to York then doing another loop of West Yorks. Big kid that I am, I couldn't resist going to a couple of local stations to take some photos. It is really good to see these locos working, hauling a good number of carriages on the main line. They don't hang around either.

Outwood


Woodlesford


(No thread hijack intended, just seemed relevant!)

[loltolhurst]

my grandfather helped build the mallard apparently

[mrmaggit]

I think you've answered your own question.

It is very sad to see her stood silent and cold at York or anywhere else, and while I was there a loud voice in my head was shouting she should be in steam, alive, but; she is the only World Speed for Steam holding engine in existance. There are, as you say, other A4's out there, they are in steam, and Mallard is irreplaceable. I think there could be a case for her being put in a state where she could be steamed if required (anniversaries, special gatherings etc), but I would have thought the money required would be better spent elsewhere. As long as she isn't allowed to rust away, I regret to say that her current state is probably the best compromise.

[Pigeon]

If you want to be that pedantic about it the Mallard currently stuffed in York is not the same Mallard that broke the speed record, as it continued in ordinary service for over 20 years after breaking the record and in that time underwent far more replacement of worn parts than would be required in 200 years of service in preservation.

Ship of Theseus, an' all that.

Let it run.

[GEORDIE_BOY]

Pigeon said:

If you want to be that pedantic about it the Mallard currently stuffed in York is not the same Mallard that broke the speed record, as it continued in ordinary service for over 20 years after breaking the record and in that time underwent far more replacement of worn parts than would be required in 200 years of service in preservation.

Ship of Theseus, an' all that.

Let it run.

Agreed, During its 25 years if service (good old wikipedia says from 1938-63) it would have been overhauled several times so it isn't techncaly the same train that set the record if that was their argument.

Ref the steam runs, have you ever visited the North yorkshire moors railway? I went last week, sadly Sir Nigel Gresley is in for repairs but will be running later this month/early sept.

[Chocmonster]

We got to see the Tornado towing the Mallard to Shildon. It was an amazing sight which was well worth the wait in the field near North Road Station in Darlington!



Few more photos here:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chocmonster/sets/7215...

[dilbert]

Zad said:

Over the summer there has been a regular steam service around here. 3 days a week it starts earliyish morning from York, does a circuit of West Yorks, then over to Scarborough via York. Returning to York then doing another loop of West Yorks. Big kid that I am, I couldn't resist going to a couple of local stations to take some photos. It is really good to see these locos working, hauling a good number of carriages on the main line. They don't hang around either.

Working, is what they do best.
Some might say, that they're better at the job than all the modern tripe!

Mallard will steam again one day. I don't know when or how, I just know she will.

[RedYellowGreen]

I traveled behind Mallard when I were a lad in 1988 when it had a stint hauling the Shakespear express trains from Marylebone to Stratford upon Avon. The return train was hauled by 4472 Flying Scotsman. Have a great picture of myself sat in the drivers seat wearing the drivers cap. Was great to see it being used as it should be, hauling a 12 coach express train at speed it looked so gracefull with the side skirts fitted unlike the other preserved a4s that I know of I think they were taken of in WW2 for the war effort and to make maintanence easier. One of the few public transport vehicles designed to look good rather being solely practical imo. Good memories.

[F i F]

Pigeon said:

If you want to be that pedantic about it the Mallard currently stuffed in York is not the same Mallard that broke the speed record, as it continued in ordinary service for over 20 years after breaking the record and in that time underwent far more replacement of worn parts than would be required in 200 years of service in preservation.

Ship of Theseus, an' all that.

Let it run.

This ^^, in fact didn't they have to replace some bearings that were almost completely knackered during the record breaking run?

Ship of Theseus! Getting all intellectual and lah-di-bloddy-dah aren't we Pidge?

Trigger's broom.

[Zad]

Strangely, Mallard's bearings were designed to fail. It was known that they were a weak point and would overheat if run fast for long enough, so they fitted bearings with an insert that melted at just below that at which the bearings themselves failed. This insert gave off a pungent gas which could be smelled by the driver so he could throttle back.

The German railway people have told Tornado's owners that there is effectively no speed limit on some of their network and would be welcome to run on it. It would be interesting to see how close to 126 it could get. So long as it doesn't go any faster! The rumours are that it went considerably above 90mph when it was testing.

[F i F]

Zad said:

Strangely, Mallard's bearings were designed to fail. It was known that they were a weak point and would overheat if run fast for long enough, so they fitted bearings with an insert that melted at just below that at which the bearings themselves failed. This insert gave off a pungent gas which could be smelled by the driver so he could throttle back.

Interesting as I recall a Tv interview with the driver who set the record and he went on about that warning system but kept pushing on past the point and the bearings themselves sustained some damage in the end..

[Pigeon]

The middle big ends on the A4s were prone to failure. The outer two cylinders had individual valve gear in the normal way; the middle one's valves were driven from an arrangement of levers that did (A+B)/-sqrt(2) on the movement of the outer two, the idea being to save maintenance hassles by avoiding having a third set of valve gear inside the frames. The problem was that the lever that did the summation used to bend and whip at high speed due to inertial forces and give excessive travel on the middle valve which caused the middle cylinder to run at a longer cutoff than the outer two and do a disproportionate amount of the work. The middle big end was also less exposed to cooling airflow than the outer ones. So it wore abnormally fast and in extreme cases could develop enough play that the increased piston travel knocked the ends off the middle cylinder. They tried various bodges to get around this, such as sleeving up the middle cylinder to reduce its diameter and using a GWR big end in the middle.

[davepoth]

Zad said:

The German railway people have told Tornado's owners that there is effectively no speed limit on some of their network and would be welcome to run on it. It would be interesting to see how close to 126 it could get. So long as it doesn't go any faster! The rumours are that it went considerably above 90mph when it was testing.

I don't know about that - might be fun to put the record safely beyond reach of anyone for all time...

[dilbert]

Pigeon said:

The middle big ends on the A4s were prone to failure. The outer two cylinders had individual valve gear in the normal way; the middle one's valves were driven from an arrangement of levers that did (A+B)/-sqrt(2) on the movement of the outer two, the idea being to save maintenance hassles by avoiding having a third set of valve gear inside the frames. The problem was that the lever that did the summation used to bend and whip at high speed due to inertial forces and give excessive travel on the middle valve which caused the middle cylinder to run at a longer cutoff than the outer two and do a disproportionate amount of the work. The middle big end was also less exposed to cooling airflow than the outer ones. So it wore abnormally fast and in extreme cases could develop enough play that the increased piston travel knocked the ends off the middle cylinder. They tried various bodges to get around this, such as sleeving up the middle cylinder to reduce its diameter and using a GWR big end in the middle.

For all, even the earliest steam railway locomotives, inside cylinders were always a problem.
In the early days when most locomotives had inside cylinders, the basic difficulty - aside from the maintenance of valve gear - was flex in the crank axle.

The static, and occasionally even hydraulic, loads placed on the crank were enough to flex it by as much as an inch, despite it being 18" or more in diameter.

With the external cylinders, the wheel and axleboxes were close enough that these problems were reduced significantly.

In the early days crankaxle failures were quite common.

Many of the CME's were clear advocates of only two cylinder locomotives, and in some cases it was possible to show that little advantage could be gained from either one or two additional cylinders between the frames. It was also shown quite early on that compounding for railway locomotives, was less useful than good valve gear.

By contrast, in the marine environment the compound really did show advantage.

I think this just goes to show the hammering that many railway locomotives were expected to sustain. Harsh starts, high power outputs. It can be shown that the later larger locomotives could not really achieve much more performance than the older smaller locomotives that preceded them. (Atlantic vs Pacific) The only real difference was that the fireman needed to work less hard, and the engine would last longer in service.