Friday afternoon thoughts...

[CaptainSlow]

so I can see modern Spitfire replicas going for £75k (correct me if wrong), no this would be cheaper with a part share. So what would I need to do in order to fly one? PPL plus experience? Are they hard to fly?

[thatone1967]

James May... is that you?

[CaptainSlow]

No but similar I'm sure.

[mattdaniels]

PPL and tailwheel experience

[Chuck328]

Legally, just a PPL.

Common sense (and ahem Insurance), PPL and a good few hundred hours experience with plenty of that on tail draggers.

There is a 60 scale one up at Perth, lovely looking machine, not seen it fly, hopefully I'll luck in next time I'm there. Mate of mine not long ago bought a Cassut racer, 240mph, he has a few hundred hours experience now and he said his first flight needed all his experience in that punchy little machine. (think extra 300 just smaller).

If you do ever go for it, good luck!

(PS can I have a shot )

[eharding]

Chuck328 said:

Legally, just a PPL.

Common sense (and ahem Insurance), PPL and a good few hundred hours experience with plenty of that on tail draggers.

There is a 60 scale one up at Perth, lovely looking machine, not seen it fly, hopefully I'll luck in next time I'm there. Mate of mine not long ago bought a Cassut racer, 240mph, he has a few hundred hours experience now and he said his first flight needed all his experience in that punchy little machine. (think extra 300 just smaller).

If you do ever go for it, good luck!

(PS can I have a shot )

Cobblers.

The current scale Spitfire replicas on offer are far less challenging to land than a Pitts, and provided you get appropriate tuition, and you don't need hundreds of hours to operate a Pitts safely.

You simply have to have average reflexes, and the ability to accept training.

The Extra 300, in mid-wing form, has issues in the last couple of seconds when landing because you can see sod-all over the wing in the three-point attitude. The low-wing variant - IMHO compromised - was a reaction to this.

I don't really get the whole mini-wardbird replica thing - for the same money, you could get a sizeable chunk of something with a lot more performance, and a lot more aerobatic.....or take longer and build yourself something with a lot more performance, and a lot more aerobatic, for the same money.

Edited by eharding on Saturday 2nd October 00:17

[Chuck328]

Cobblers NOT.

You think it's wise to go fire off in a fairly high performance tail dragger with a few post ppl hours under your belt? It was a recommendation that's all. How much experience do you deem? 100hrs, 150? Go for what ever you feel is right for you at the time - just know your limits as best you can, I'm sure you agree with that Mr Harding...

Pitts is a lovely machine, but I wouldn't say no to a replica war bird. It's not about how much G you can pull or what type of aero's you can do, least not for me.

[eharding]

Chuck328 said:

Cobblers NOT.

You think it's wise to go fire off in a fairly high performance tail dragger with a few post ppl hours under your belt? It was a recommendation that's all. How much experience do you deem? 100hrs, 150? Go for what ever you feel is right for you at the time - just know your limits as best you can, I'm sure you agree with that Mr Harding...

Pitts is a lovely machine, but I wouldn't say no to a replica war bird. It's not about how much G you can pull or what type of aero's you can do, least not for me.

See above.

Hours aren't a factor. Aptitude and training are.

You seem to be offering advice without the personal benefit of either.

[Chuck328]

eharding said:

Chuck328 said:

Cobblers NOT.

You think it's wise to go fire off in a fairly high performance tail dragger with a few post ppl hours under your belt? It was a recommendation that's all. How much experience do you deem? 100hrs, 150? Go for what ever you feel is right for you at the time - just know your limits as best you can, I'm sure you agree with that Mr Harding...

Pitts is a lovely machine, but I wouldn't say no to a replica war bird. It's not about how much G you can pull or what type of aero's you can do, least not for me.

See above.

Hours aren't a factor. Aptitude and training are.

You seem to be offering advice without the personal benefit of either.

As I have no idea of the OP's aptitude or even any experience, I offer the safe option of experience, and having been in the flying game since 1994 I know experience DOES help. It's not rocket science is it...?

[eharding]

Chuck328 said:

eharding said:

Chuck328 said:

Cobblers NOT.

You think it's wise to go fire off in a fairly high performance tail dragger with a few post ppl hours under your belt? It was a recommendation that's all. How much experience do you deem? 100hrs, 150? Go for what ever you feel is right for you at the time - just know your limits as best you can, I'm sure you agree with that Mr Harding...

Pitts is a lovely machine, but I wouldn't say no to a replica war bird. It's not about how much G you can pull or what type of aero's you can do, least not for me.

See above.

Hours aren't a factor. Aptitude and training are.

You seem to be offering advice without the personal benefit of either.

As I have no idea of the OP's aptitude or even any experience, I offer the safe option of experience, and having been in the flying game since 1994 I know experience DOES help. It's not rocket science is it...?

Since 1994, how much Pitts or Extra P1 time have you logged?

Edited: ...or any fruity tail-dragger.

Edited by eharding on Saturday 2nd October 00:50

[FezzaDezza]

I'll step in here as I am the mate that Chuck328 was reffering to and I do now indeed own a rather fruity tailwheel Cassutt Racer (G-Bomb) based at Perth.

Firstly Chuck probably has more hours in the air sitting on the bog than I have in total (I have a CPL with approx 500hrs), and it should be Chuck A319 given his current mount, he knows what he's talking about.

I know the Replica Spitfire well and was close to buying a share in the one at Perth however its still on the Austrailian register and there a number of other issues that put me off, hence I went for the Cassutt instead.
Speaking at length to Ian that owns the Mk26 Spit however you'd be pretty foolish to step stright out of PPL training into a hot tailwheel. Saying that the chap I bought my Cassutt from (Richard Grace) started flying it with only 60hrs TT and 30mins tailwheel, it may be fair to agree however given that at 21 years he was the youngest person to hold a display auth in the UK and at 25 is now displaying not just as part of a Pitts pair team but also dsiplaying the Family Spitfire that he has above average aptitude for this sort of thing.

I'd say give yourself about 150-200hrs with approx 50hrs tailwheel and a bit of complex time before flying the replica Spit, its not just the flying thats an issue you have some extra systems to work with and that very odd gear retraction system that they have....

Still glad I bought the Cassutt though, 250mph beat ups are an absolute hoot!

Edited by FezzaDezza on Saturday 2nd October 13:02

[FezzaDezza]

My Fruity Cassutt....much better than a Spit replica!!!

[Flintstone]

FezzaDezza said:

I know the Replica Spitfire well and was close to buying a share in the one at Perth however its still on the Austrailian register......

Tell you what. Buy it and I'll lend you my Aussie licence in return for a spin round the block

[eharding]

FezzaDezza said:

Saying that the chap I bought my Cassutt from (Richard Grace) started flying it with only 60hrs TT and 30mins tailwheel, it may be fair to agree however given that at 21 years he was the youngest person to hold a display auth in the UK and at 25 is now displaying not just as part of a Pitts pair team but also dsiplaying the Family Spitfire that he has above average aptitude for this sort of thing

My point exactly - flying these types is a matter of training and aptitude, rather than just a set number of hours flying straight and level in a PA28 (or an Airbus, for that matter).

The past couple of years has seen medal winners at the Standard and Intermediate aerobatic nationals with less than 200 hours total power time - and in both of the cases I can think of most of that time was in a Pitts (one of them doing his entire PPL training on type) - granted both of them had a lot of glider time beforehand.

Of course you wouldn't put someone fresh out of a standard PPL course into a high performance tail dragger, but that's more a reflection on the standard PPL course, and another 200 hours in a PA-28 isn't going to help much either.

[FezzaDezza]

eharding said:

My point exactly - flying these types is a matter of training and aptitude, rather than just a set number of hours flying straight and level in a PA28 (or an Airbus, for that matter).

The past couple of years has seen medal winners at the Standard and Intermediate aerobatic nationals with less than 200 hours total power time - and in both of the cases I can think of most of that time was in a Pitts (one of them doing his entire PPL training on type) - granted both of them had a lot of glider time beforehand.

Of course you wouldn't put someone fresh out of a standard PPL course into a high performance tail dragger, but that's more a reflection on the standard PPL course, and another 200 hours in a PA-28 isn't going to help much either.

Additional time in another type of any variety after your PPL will be of benefit, as we know the 3 main aspects to flying are 'Aviate, Navigate, Communicate', a fresh PPL will just about be able to cope with all 3 at once however after a couple of hundered hours 'Navigate and Communicate' will have become second nature leaving much more spare mental capacity to learn to 'Aviate' in a new type.

I would however agree that going purely by hours is not always a great reflection of ability, some people are definately more 'nautrals' than others when it comes to flying and will of course require much less training.
As for flying the Mk26 Spit with low hours, part of the problem is of course that its not 'dual-control' so once your off the ground its down to you to get it back down again, you cant just beat the circuit with an instructor until your starting to get the hang of it.

In a similar respect my conversion onto the Cassutt was nothing more than a quick chat about speeds and foybles then off I went, pity it was less than ideal weather with a very gusty veering x-wind to contend with. I owned a Tipsy Nipper immediately prior to that and the twitchy handling / light stick forces were very similar, previous to that I was flying a JP3 with much higher speeds than other GA types and the combination of both on top of my previous tailwheel time left me well prepared for the Cassutt.
Suspect it would have been a much bigger shock to someone who's only ever flown unresponsive Cessna's and Pipers and the Spit would be very much the same with virtually no view over the nose in the flare, additional systems to manage (U/C and Prop) and of course higher speeds and more responsive / twitchy handling, especially on the ground.

A talented low hour chap might well get away with it but generally speaking I'd still suggest min 150ish hours with some complex and tailwheel time, pretty sure the insurers would ask for something similar too.

Edited by FezzaDezza on Saturday 2nd October 16:36

Edited by FezzaDezza on Saturday 2nd October 16:53

[ninja-lewis]

Spitfire Type 2k promises to be a full size replica albeit one with MTOW of 1000kg.

[FezzaDezza]

Good luck to them with that project, looks fantastic, woud much rather have one of those than the Mk26b.

I'll watch with interest for the future....