Why are Train Carriages Different Lengths?

[Chrisgr31]

I have always assummed that train carriages were the same length, or certainly on commutting trains anyway.

However its clear when our Diesel Turbostars are in London Bridge the carriages are longer than some if not all the electric trains. Why?

[Simpo Two]

Pure guess - because they run on lines where they don't have to negotiate such tight bends?

[nc107]

That's correct. There are two basic gauges in the UK, known colloquially as South of the River and North of the River.

EMU's are generally run South of the River so are all designed as South of the River gauge (20m long by 2.8m wide), and DMU's are NoR gauge (23m by 2.7m). There are some oddities about, such as the Class 165/166 DMU's which are NoR length but SoR width - but they are quite restricted as to where they can go.

There are different gauges for the designated high speed routes (Channel Tunnel etc) - which run a variation of a European gauge but I've not much experience of that.

In practice there are many detail differences in vehicle gauges and depending on exactly where you want a vehicle to run you can get clearence for NoR to run SoR and vise-versa, but thats the basics.

[grumbledoak]

They all seem to be different heights, too, so sometimes you can drive a pushchair off easily and sometimes it's like throwing it down a staircase.

It seems that British Rail couldn't find it's arse with both hands and several decades to do it in...

[nc107]

Broadly speaking they are all the same height, the difference is the platfrom heights (and distance from the track) which are all over the place.

[43034]

grumbledoak said:

They all seem to be different heights, too, so sometimes you can drive a pushchair off easily and sometimes it's like throwing it down a staircase.

It seems that British Rail couldn't find it's arse with both hands and several decades to do it in...

That's the platforms...............

[grumbledoak]

43034 said:

That's the platforms...............

And it's beyond the wit of Homo British Rail to standardise them?

[43034]

grumbledoak said:

43034 said:

That's the platforms...............

And it's beyond the wit of Homo British Rail to standardise them?

I wouldn't say it's worth it tbh. Europe have mega low platforms and their railways work fine (MUCH better than the UK does).

I think stock shortages are a bigger problem than platform heights tbh.

[mph1977]

grumbledoak said:

43034 said:

That's the platforms...............

And it's beyond the wit of Homo British Rail to standardise them?

well given that for some stations it would mean digging the entire platforms up and re laying them ....

i dread to think what the area that would need to be adjusted at a major station is...

[grumbledoak]

mph1977 said:

well given that for some stations it would mean digging the entire platforms up and re laying them ....

So? Stations are constantly being refurbished. And, as I understand it, we pay a considerable subsidy. They could at least spend it on something useful. Like not getting your toddler's pushchair's wheels trapped between the train and the platform.

[Jonny671]

grumbledoak said:

mph1977 said:

well given that for some stations it would mean digging the entire platforms up and re laying them ....

So? Stations are constantly being refurbished. And, as I understand it, we pay a considerable subsidy. They could at least spend it on something useful. Like not getting your toddler's pushchair's wheels trapped between the train and the platform.

And whilst you're digging up the whole platform and raising it that platform is out of use, so you now have to try and move them to another platform now..

[grumbledoak]

Jonny671 said:

And whilst you're digging up the whole platform and raising it that platform is out of use, so you now have to try and move them to another platform now..

Well, yes.

So get on with it. Work can be quite rewarding, I'm told.

[grumbledoak]

Thanks, tonks. Start with an insinuated insult.

[grumbledoak]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

And they'll still be here in 100 years. So, perhaps some of our enormous subsidy could be spent on them.

And, fyi, I'm quite capable of lifting baby and chair if I can see that I need to. It was, as you say, a misjudgement.

[Jonny671]

grumbledoak said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

And they'll still be here in 100 years. So, perhaps some of our enormous subsidy could be spent on them.

And, fyi, I'm quite capable of lifting baby and chair if I can see that I need to. It was, as you say, a misjudgement.

They may do.. At each train platform they've actually got a ramp you can use, you do have to ask the station staff or the conductor but they'll let you use that if you need.

[Simpo Two]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Special 'Parent and Baby' carriages with automatic hydraulic ramps. People without babies get fined £5,000 for using them. Then you need another carriage for Disabled People with Babies, and another carriage for Morbidly Obese, which has built-in cranes. And of course if you have a morbiidly obese person who is also a parent, you'll need another kind of carriage: 'Morbidly Obese Parent and Baby' which has ramps AND cranes.

I think that covers everything.

[Jonny671]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sorry, what about those few of us which are kind of normal? Or do we not fit in any longer due to there being so many groups?

[Engineer1]

Tonker, a genius plan, infact if they make the train long enough it will be at every station simultaneously, and zero emissions as you get on and then walk down the train till you reach your station. More seriously though adjusting platform height isn't always possible, some stations are old and built behind the platform, raise the platform height and water will now run off into the station buildings.

[grumbledoak]

Engineer1 said:

More seriously though adjusting platform height isn't always possible, some stations are old and built behind the platform, raise the platform height and water will now run off into the station buildings.

So, the passengers wet feet are less important than the Fat Controller's wet feet? Nice to see the public sector mentality still alive and well. The paying public are, of course, simply paying you to drive trains around, after all. Like the buses.

I'm not asking for the impossible, and I don't think it will be quick, or probably ever end. But, just pick a fking platform height, pick the worst station in Britain, and fix it. Then the next one. Repeat.

[JB!]

Re: Platforms.

I am personally responsible for checking clearances through platforms, we work to a tolerance of +/- 15mm.

Yes, we don't want you falling down between the train and platform (you'd have to try real hard) but we also want to make sure we can get the biggest freight trains through with room to spare.

To move trains closer to platform has to be done with a tamper, which costs thousands of pounds per shift, and you have to design the lifts and slues, so it costs to send me and my team out to survey and create the design.

There is a national scheme to add "humps" to low platforms to assist wheelchair and pram users, but all the platforms on my patch are to spec.

The French rolling stock is VERY different, some you can step onto from rail level.

HTH.