Ultimate piston fighter?

[Waynester]

I read quite a good article on the design construction of Martin Baker aircraft, culminating with the MB5.

The magazine asked the question 'was the MB5 the ultimate piston engined fighter?

I found the whole article interesting as my grandad worked at MB for 40 years & retiring in 1990.

Anyway I'm not sure the MB5 qualifies as there was only ever the one produced as a prototype?

There are a few candidates,

Spitfire 21
Spiteful
Hawker Fury

What others Qualify? This is where being production or not is open to debate as you could add current day Reno warbirds??

[DBSV8]

Ultimate in speed or in kill ratio ,

If kill ratio the Messerschmitt Bf 109
varients would be high on the list Erich Hartmann (352 victories), Gerhard Barkhorn (301 victories), . Werner Molders (115 victories), Adolf Galland (104 victories). Hans-Joachim Marseille (158 victories), all flew the Bf 109.


as would be the Lockheed P-38 Lightning in the Japanese theatre and the Vought F4U Corsair

for pure speed and fighter capabilities


The Mustang P51 has to be up there as would the last varient Spitfire Mks. 21, 22 and 24 and Japanese Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate

sure Eric will be along to give

[griffdude]

The FW190 was feared by the RAF when it was introduced.

[Waynester]

The question is as follows from Decembers Aeroplane magazine:

Do you consider the Martin Baker MB5 to have been the worlds ultimate single engined piston fighter?
460 mph
4 20mm cannon

it's appearance is quite P-51(ish)

[Dr Jekyll]

If by ultimate you mean in absolute terms not relative to contemporaries.

Maybe late model Mustang or Spitfire.

Sea Fury.
Bearcat.

[The real Apache]

The Sea Fury and Bearcat where at the pinnacle of piston engined fighter design before the jet age took over so surely they must be 'up there'. The Sea Fury is reputed to have shot down a Mig 15 in the Korean War and both were claimed to be able to hold their own in a scrap with an early jet.

[Rotary Madness]

Wasnt the Focke Wulf 190 supposed to be very good, but once again with Germany, it appeared too late in the war to really rack up some kills?

[Chimpy Chompies]

Depends what you mean by Ultimate. If it is based on capability the list could be endless.

I'd say the Mustang as best all round.

Few curveballs for you to consider.

Hellcat Pretty sure this had highest kill to loss ratio during WW2
Tigercat
Black widow

[Odie]

Are you only including single prop fighters.

How would night fighters fare against their single prop cousins?

Mosquito, Beaufighter etc

[DBSV8]

Odie said:

Are you only including single prop fighters.

How would night fighters fare against their single prop cousins?

Mosquito, Beaufighter etc

the lockhed lightening p38

The P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other USAAF fighter in WW II. that was twin engined
Armament:
1-20mm cannon, 4-.50 cal MG,

[Yertis]

Dornier 335

Or being serious, Sea Fury or Bearcat.

There must be some powerful Soviet equivalent too.

[rhinochopig]

This comes up quite often - it did a month or so ago - and it's a question that can't really be answered because there are too many factors.

For example the FW TA-152 was reputed to be probably the best high altitude fighter made during WWII, but one could argue that one of the later generation Russian fighters is the ultimate as they were designed to be built very very quickly so they could literally swamp the Germans with numbers - as they did with their tanks.

It's an interesting debate though as it never gets resolved.

As an aside my father attended a talk by Gunther Rall. Someone asked what the best fighter he ever flew was - his response was the P51D. So there you have it straight from the horses mouth.

To further the discussion, you should propose them based on.

Ease of flying - handling traits
Pilot visibility
Speed across various altitudes - High - Medium - Low
Climb rate
Turn rate
Endurance
Armament
Power to weight
Survivability
Serviceability
Production rate

I've probably missed a few but it's a starter.

[Dr Jekyll]

DBSV8 said:

Odie said:

Are you only including single prop fighters.

How would night fighters fare against their single prop cousins?

Mosquito, Beaufighter etc

the lockhed lightening p38

The P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other USAAF fighter in WW II. that was twin engined
Armament:
1-20mm cannon, 4-.50 cal MG,

But it was less effective than the P51 in Europe.

[DBSV8]

Dr Jekyll said:

DBSV8 said:

Odie said:

Are you only including single prop fighters.

How would night fighters fare against their single prop cousins?

Mosquito, Beaufighter etc

the lockhed lightening p38

The P-38 shot down more Japanese aircraft than any other USAAF fighter in WW II. that was twin engined
Armament:
1-20mm cannon, 4-.50 cal MG,

But it was less effective than the P51 in Europe.

and the p51 looks and sounds better

[Penguinracer]

While the usual suspects would be the Hawker Fury/Seafury, Bearcat, P51-H, Spitty Mks 21, 22 & 24, P38L, Tigercat, Corsair FU4 & Super Corsair F2G-2 & Yak-3, Ray Hanna felt that the all-round hightest performing (agility, speed rate of climb etc) & the nicest flying of the lot was the Lavochkin La-9.

There was an article about the La-9 about 18-months ago in one of the warbird Mags in which he explicitly stated this opinion - unfortunately I can't find an online link to the article.

Here's a linky about the OFMC La-9:

http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=9480&am...

[richw_82]

Dornier 335?

[Yertis]

The La-9 is the Russian thing I was thinking about.

Another big "final" piston engined fighter is the Westland Wyvern. It wasn't very successful but, to look at, the engine is a work of art (at the Yeovilton Museum).

[Chimpy Chompies]

Only used a piston engine for prototype though, rest were jet props.

Edited by Chimpy Chompies on Monday 15th November 11:42

Edited by Chimpy Chompies on Monday 15th November 11:45

[Yertis]

Chimpy Chompies said:

Thats cheating it's not piston power ;-)

You fell straight into my trap...

RR Eagle in a Wyvern

Edited to add:

LOL , not fast enough!

Edited by Yertis on Monday 15th November 11:46

[mybrainhurts]

Chimpy Chompies said:

EDITED

Edited by Chimpy Chompies on Monday 15th November 11:42

You can delete it, you know...

But this will remain intact...