Dissappointing chicken stock?
Discussion
Any ideas? Having felt like I haven't learn't anything in the kitchen for a while I decided to try jointing a whole chicken and actually the process is very straightforward and personally, quite rewarding (as well as the benefit of making me feel like a real man by being able to cut up an already dead chicken)
Anyway - I took the carcass, split it and added it to a pot with the wing tips and left over odds and sods along with 2 diced carrots and a chopped (loosely) onion with seasoning and boiled on a low simmer for almost three hours.
I deliberately didn't add much water (enough to just about cover the bird - but it was in a tight pot) and afterward I was left with stock that almost filled a mug.
Tonight I wanted to cook cous cous to go with my chicken kebabs and thought "aha!" chicken stock!
I used the whole lot plus another mug of water as I was going to use a mug of cous cous and set it on the stove.
When it was hot I tasted it and was really disappointed. It tasted very 'thin' and pretty far from the default option of a couple of cups of water and an oxo cube.
Did I do something wrong or does stock really come with so little body?
People all over talk of chicken stock being the basis of all soups, great for sauces etc - but this was really wishy washy despite it having enough collagen in it to almost be a jelly when cold (I appreciate this has little taste on it's own - I'm just trying to illustrate having tried to get all the flavour out of the chicken).
Am I missing the obvious? I like the idea of making my own stock - but this really wasn't worth it and having thrown an Oxo cube in the stock and cooked the cous cous couldn't detect any difference at all!
Anyway - I took the carcass, split it and added it to a pot with the wing tips and left over odds and sods along with 2 diced carrots and a chopped (loosely) onion with seasoning and boiled on a low simmer for almost three hours.
I deliberately didn't add much water (enough to just about cover the bird - but it was in a tight pot) and afterward I was left with stock that almost filled a mug.
Tonight I wanted to cook cous cous to go with my chicken kebabs and thought "aha!" chicken stock!
I used the whole lot plus another mug of water as I was going to use a mug of cous cous and set it on the stove.
When it was hot I tasted it and was really disappointed. It tasted very 'thin' and pretty far from the default option of a couple of cups of water and an oxo cube.
Did I do something wrong or does stock really come with so little body?
People all over talk of chicken stock being the basis of all soups, great for sauces etc - but this was really wishy washy despite it having enough collagen in it to almost be a jelly when cold (I appreciate this has little taste on it's own - I'm just trying to illustrate having tried to get all the flavour out of the chicken).
Am I missing the obvious? I like the idea of making my own stock - but this really wasn't worth it and having thrown an Oxo cube in the stock and cooked the cous cous couldn't detect any difference at all!
Did you boil the wing tips before or after you roasted it? What about the skin? The roasted skin is where the flavour is.
But there's not much flavour on just the one carcass: I collect chicken carcasses and freeze them until I've got three or four, then roast them (important), and then boil them for stock.
But there's not much flavour on just the one carcass: I collect chicken carcasses and freeze them until I've got three or four, then roast them (important), and then boil them for stock.
IME just using a carcass will never give stock with depth.
I use half a chicken, 750g of trimmed brisket, three or four carrots, a beef tomato, a few sticks of celery, bouquet garni, two onions cut in half and salt to taste.
Start with cold water with just the meat in and slowly bring to the boil, this will release the fats from the meat which you can skim off. Then throw in the veg with a blob of tomato puree and very gently simmer for four hours. Strain with a cheese cloth to get all the bits out and leave to chill in the fridge to solidify the remaining fat which you can then pick out.
I use a stock pot and will end up with it about half full at the end.
The meat can be eaten, salted beef is awesome with pickled veg and fresh, crispy bread.
I use half a chicken, 750g of trimmed brisket, three or four carrots, a beef tomato, a few sticks of celery, bouquet garni, two onions cut in half and salt to taste.
Start with cold water with just the meat in and slowly bring to the boil, this will release the fats from the meat which you can skim off. Then throw in the veg with a blob of tomato puree and very gently simmer for four hours. Strain with a cheese cloth to get all the bits out and leave to chill in the fridge to solidify the remaining fat which you can then pick out.
I use a stock pot and will end up with it about half full at the end.
The meat can be eaten, salted beef is awesome with pickled veg and fresh, crispy bread.
was the chicken carcass cooked or raw? you want a cooked carcass for the roasted flavors if you can. Also use any giblets (substitute for some pork bits if no giblets in your chicken).
Also you have to reduce the stock, i usually reduce it by just under half the original volume once ive strained it.
Also you have to reduce the stock, i usually reduce it by just under half the original volume once ive strained it.
Thanks guys,
It would seem the recurrent theme is that the chicken should be cooked prior to simmering down rather than a raw one as I have used.
I was working on the theory that my way would capture all the flavour available rather than it being 'used' in the roasting process. It would seem I was perhaps misguided.
So I am willing to give it another shot - but my question is this:
If I don't want to use a roast chicken - but instead want to start with a jointed carcass is that a dead end so to speak - or is there a way of cooking through the carcass? Or indeed - is there any point when stock cubes are ten a penny? The value in this seems pretty marginal!
Should I just wait until I have a roast chicken, use the meat in the regular way and try then?
I do now see where the real flavour comes from - I'm not sure though whether this can be replicated outside of using an already roasted chicken's carcass
It would seem the recurrent theme is that the chicken should be cooked prior to simmering down rather than a raw one as I have used.
I was working on the theory that my way would capture all the flavour available rather than it being 'used' in the roasting process. It would seem I was perhaps misguided.
So I am willing to give it another shot - but my question is this:
If I don't want to use a roast chicken - but instead want to start with a jointed carcass is that a dead end so to speak - or is there a way of cooking through the carcass? Or indeed - is there any point when stock cubes are ten a penny? The value in this seems pretty marginal!
Should I just wait until I have a roast chicken, use the meat in the regular way and try then?
I do now see where the real flavour comes from - I'm not sure though whether this can be replicated outside of using an already roasted chicken's carcass
I'd also cook it a lot longer. These days I use a pressure cooker with the same ingredients as you (cooked carcass, left overs from bird, pealed onion and carrot - though both whole) and in that form I still cook for about 2-4 hours (post skimming).
Seem to remember I'd slow simmer for about 6-8 hours before getting the pressure cooker.
Seem to remember I'd slow simmer for about 6-8 hours before getting the pressure cooker.
I use 2 roasted chicken carcasses and sometimes add a packet of chicken wings from the supermarket if they are going cheap (oh look, I made a joke...)
Heston has a trick which involves sprinkling the chicken wings with some milk powder prior to roasting them. I think it works well as it encourages the Maillard reaction.
He also slow-fries an onion and carrot until they are very dark. This can take some time and I'm not convinced it adds much, but try it yourself.
Otherwise, a couple of carrots, stick of celery, an onion, a few black peppercorns and a bayleaf are added to the pot (pressure cooker in my case). Cover it all with water, bring to the boil, skim the scum then simmer very gently for at least 5 hours or 2-3 hrs if using a pressure cooker.
Strain through muslin to clear the stock before reducing (if you don't strain properly and then boil hard, it can spoil the flavour).
Reduced by about a third, it makes a very good soup base. Reduced by 2/3 it will be good for gravies and sauces. I reduce it further and then fill ice cube bags with it so I can freezer it without taking up too much space.
Heston has a trick which involves sprinkling the chicken wings with some milk powder prior to roasting them. I think it works well as it encourages the Maillard reaction.
He also slow-fries an onion and carrot until they are very dark. This can take some time and I'm not convinced it adds much, but try it yourself.
Otherwise, a couple of carrots, stick of celery, an onion, a few black peppercorns and a bayleaf are added to the pot (pressure cooker in my case). Cover it all with water, bring to the boil, skim the scum then simmer very gently for at least 5 hours or 2-3 hrs if using a pressure cooker.
Strain through muslin to clear the stock before reducing (if you don't strain properly and then boil hard, it can spoil the flavour).
Reduced by about a third, it makes a very good soup base. Reduced by 2/3 it will be good for gravies and sauces. I reduce it further and then fill ice cube bags with it so I can freezer it without taking up too much space.
Ok,
Stock V 2.0 is being prepared now.
Having given it some thought I don't know why I considered that boiling a raw chicken would leave a broth with a taste anything other than 'a bit chickeny' vs using a roasted bird with all the delicious seasonings on it etc.
Accordingly the seasoned chicken is roasting now and I have also doubled the amount of veg in the pot. I have 2 x celery sticks, 2 x med onions, 2 x carrots and there will be some garlic in there too as long as I don't forget to add it.
So thanks for all of the above! I did ask Mrs Paolow if I was just wasting my time and she replied 'yes' without hesitation - so clearly I am on the right track....
Will this be a success? who knows, but dinner should be nice enough regardless and a couple of onions and some carrots and celery will hardly break the bank....
Watch this space.....
Stock V 2.0 is being prepared now.
Having given it some thought I don't know why I considered that boiling a raw chicken would leave a broth with a taste anything other than 'a bit chickeny' vs using a roasted bird with all the delicious seasonings on it etc.
Accordingly the seasoned chicken is roasting now and I have also doubled the amount of veg in the pot. I have 2 x celery sticks, 2 x med onions, 2 x carrots and there will be some garlic in there too as long as I don't forget to add it.
So thanks for all of the above! I did ask Mrs Paolow if I was just wasting my time and she replied 'yes' without hesitation - so clearly I am on the right track....
Will this be a success? who knows, but dinner should be nice enough regardless and a couple of onions and some carrots and celery will hardly break the bank....
Watch this space.....
I think it depends on how you want to use your stock.
I usually want to add richness and depth to whatever I use the stock in - but not necessarily a strong chicken flavour. I use a pressure cooker with raw carcasses and some veg and after just 90 mins cooking it will still have enough extract to jellify when cooled, but the flavour is still quite bland.
In my experience, using roast bones/meat/left overs will make a browner stock that tastes more 'chickeny' and can be better for chicken soup.
Oh, and season afterwards in case you need to reduce it!
I usually want to add richness and depth to whatever I use the stock in - but not necessarily a strong chicken flavour. I use a pressure cooker with raw carcasses and some veg and after just 90 mins cooking it will still have enough extract to jellify when cooled, but the flavour is still quite bland.
In my experience, using roast bones/meat/left overs will make a browner stock that tastes more 'chickeny' and can be better for chicken soup.
Oh, and season afterwards in case you need to reduce it!
otolith said:
I wouldn't buy chickens to make stock, but throwing a carcass away and buying stock cubes is just wasteful.
Well this was my thought also. As it is the stock created by the V 2.0 method was a lovely golden brown and tastes pretty good! It is currently, along with the leftover chicken, forming part of my chicken and mushroom risotto for tonight.Fingers crossed it still has it's flavour!
As a coincidental aside we are apparently out of chicken stock cubes so the timing of anything couldn't be better.........
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