Peak Brewdog?

[Lotobear]

I am not sure what to think about this firm, though I liked Punk IPA when it first came out.

Now I find their beers insipid, over hopped, 'samey', and lacking backbone or complexity

I also find their marketing hype and sanctimony a bit too much. They seems to have become the Starbucks/Apple/Innocent of the craft beer world.

What's the betting we see those 'principled' founder selling out to Diageo or similar in a couple of years?

[miniman]

I rather like Dead Pony Club.

[anonymous-user]

i like punk ipa and some others, when i first started drinking there wasn't much about as there is now. Yes they will probably sell out but good on them, they started a successful company.

edit

''Private equity firm, TSG Consumer Partners acquired a 22% stake in the company for approximately £213 million in April 2017''

So in 10 years makes a billion usd worth company, no bad going.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Saturday 30th December 14:06

[Lotobear]

..the point is they have built their image around being an artisan brewer and railing againts 'Big Beer' as the Guardian might put it.

Wifey bought me their treatise on craft beer for Christmas and the sanctimony is quite sickening

[anonymous-user]

What would you want them to do? They are a brand, yes they are successful, in supermarkets, maybe sold out, but they are still independent from the main brewers and offer the wide consumer base different types of beers and ale enmass. i like there beers i'm not even there target market.

[Lotobear]

I would want them to be true to their expressed 'values'

But it's clear they are riding a fashionable wave and set to make a killing. Nothing wrong with that of course,whilst I'm a free marketeer I just don't like hypocrisy (or their beer)

[anonymous-user]

they been going 10 years so riding the wave well, they own pubs as well. There are loads of other 'real' craft beers, brewed in peoples bath tubs, they just taste st.

I don't like the owners attitude, he did a BBC programme, came across as a tit.

TINY REBEL CWTCH is another i like just can't buy it anywhere.

[bga]

Lotobear said:

..the point is they have built their image around being an artisan brewer and railing againts 'Big Beer' as the Guardian might put it.

Wifey bought me their treatise on craft beer for Christmas and the sanctimony is quite sickening

I found that the master brewers I worked with at SABMiller to be every bit as passionate as the ones in my local brewery. It sounds like you want to hate them because they are successful.

[andy_s]

Lotobear said:

I would want them to be true to their expressed 'values'

But it's clear they are riding a fashionable wave and set to make a killing. Nothing wrong with that of course,whilst I'm a free marketeer I just don't like hypocrisy (or their beer)

I think they started, or were at the vanguard of, the fashionable wave, weren't they?

Pretty much all of the worlds beer is controlled by 5 companies - that's a worth of several hundreds of billion, these boys are still small fry in that context.

Edited by andy_s on Saturday 30th December 16:47

[Lotobear]

Yeah, done their pub in Newcastle - very expensive.

Lots of excellent small craft brewers (whatever that means) around. I like Wylam and Fell Brewy but they're local to me so I'm biased.

[anonymous-user]

i think they popularised craft and different beers to a younger market, which is good. The choice available now is massive and I'm not a fan of CAMRA pubs, no music, beers a bit crap, at least with Brewdog brand you know what you are getting.

[Lotobear]

bga,

Sorry to disappoint you but I think I know rather better what's behind my thinking on BD that you do.

I've been enjoying 'real ale' for nearly 40 years now, perhaps I am just too discerning

[Loyly]

Lotobear said:

Yeah, done their pub in Newcastle - very expensive.

Lots of excellent small craft brewers (whatever that means) around. I like Wylam and Fell Brewy but they're local to me so I'm biased.

Wylam has lost it. They're more focused on naff events at their swanky new tap room than they are on making good beer. They've went down the route of making naff, trendy beers like a foul smoked bitter and novelty super strength IPA. They were a brewer of serious distinction a few years ago.

I'm not that keen on Brewdog's offering. Some of it is alright but it often falls into the trap of super dry, super hoppy American style piss. Their marketing is without a doubt the worst thing about the company though. They sell themselves as 'punks' rebelling against the old guard. It's a sham, the bosses all took home huge salaries last year and the company is very profitable, and yet it still offers that lame 'equity for punks' share system, effectively using customers to crowd fund new ventures that would have been profitable anyway.

[Murph7355]

Lotobear said:

Yeah, done their pub in Newcastle - very expensive.

Lots of excellent small craft brewers (whatever that means) around. I like Wylam and Fell Brewy but they're local to me so I'm biased.

The simple answer is just not to buy it/frequent their pubs

I love Punk. A lot of the others taste pretty much the same just with the %vol toned up or down (or were gimmicky). I found it interesting that the taste wasn't that impacted with lower or greater alcohol content. Punk, to me, is the sweat spot though.

Unfortunately anything that becomes popular will have a very difficult balance to strike, They either go for more volume, or start charging more per unit (assuming they want to maximise their profits - which, let's face it, we all do). Neither of which will be well received by early adopters in all likelihood.

I bet you like to go to holiday destinations that aren't that "touristy" too

[Jer_1974]

£14 for a case of 12 Punk IPA from Tesco has made me switch from Stella over Christmas.

[overunder12g]

Great company. Different to the normal giant brewing giants, Now into spirit production too. Two fingers to the established giants. Long may they continue to prosper.
From someone forty years in the industry.

[Sy1441]

I’m big fan of their beers, have been for years. Elvis Juice is probably my fav.

[Jambo85]

A lot of the beer I can take or leave, but they have turned the UK beer market upside down which is a great thing! Previously the choices were bland lager or real ale which is often warm, flat and oxidised. Maybe a badly kept heavy inbetween. Also demonstrated that good beer can come in cans!

About getting bigger.. what are these companies supposed to do, refuse to grow so that they can remain "craft" and "artisan"? That's ridiculous.

Loyly said:

It's a sham, the bosses all took home huge salaries last year and the company is very profitable, and yet it still offers that lame 'equity for punks' share system, effectively using customers to crowd fund new ventures that would have been profitable anyway.

The salaries they are taking are insignificant compared to the sums they are raising through crowd funding. Although if you study the financial documents in detail they have set up ways that may be used to siphon money out of the company less tracebly (e.g. one of the founders owns 4 of the bars).

Also take issue with the 'would have been profitable anyway' bit... most of what they raise (latterly at least) is used for working capital. By my understanding loans for working capital are hard to get and expensive due to the risk - their net margin is around 5%, interest on conventional loans would cripple them. And it's easy to say now that it would have been profitable!

I invested a small amount early on and I am happy with it. I do think though that anyone investing tens of thousands (and they do) needs their head examined.

[Truckosaurus]

Jambo85 said:

...I invested a small amount early on and I am happy with it.....

Me too. Put £500 into EFP2 whilst being somewhat refreshed, sold 4% of my holding as part of the Venture Capitalist deal for £514, so I've already made a profit Hopefully the remaining 96% will be worth something in the future if they ever get to the open market.

As for the drinks themselves. Punk (and the similar American style IPAs produced by a lot of the large breweries now, eg. Greene King's East Coast IPA) is an unchallenging, refreshing alternative to poorly kept real ale in a lot of pubs.

I like their 'Electric India' sort-of-Saison but most of the other drinks (and this also applies to a lot of 'craft' beer) are just too hoppy or random flavours added for the sake of it - for my taste at least.

The most interesting thing in Brewdog's future is how they can deal with the Chinese market, which is now their biggest export market and they are looking to build a brewery out there.