Help understanding cooking times please

[Pistom]

I fully understand that meats need to be cooked at certain temperatures and found the info below on what temps the meat should get to to cook but what I don't quite understand is how long it needs to be at the given temperature to cook - and at what point it overcooks?

For Beef and Veal Rare - 50°C (122°F)
Medium rare - 55°C (131°F)
Medium - 60°C (140°F)
Medium well - 65°C (149°F)
Well done - 70°C (158°F)

For Minced Beef
Medium rare - 55°C (131°F)
Medium - 60°C (140°F)
Medium well - 65°C (149°F)
Well done - 70°C (158°F)

For Lamb
60°C (140°F)

For Pork or Ham
60°C (140°F)

For Fish
50°C (122°F)

For Poultry
Poultry Legs - 75°C (167°F)
Poultry Breast - 65°C (149°F)

I'm currently following a slow cooker recipe for a 1kg shoulder of lamb which says cook on "low" for 8-10 hours but the internal temp of the lamb is 70 deg C - isn't that too high and too long?

Is there anywhere I can find guides on how long to cook meats for?

[TartanPaint]

Those are the temperatures the centre of the meat must reach (using a probe thermometer) to be assured that the meat is cooked. You stick the probe into the middle of the meat, and when it hits that number, you're done.

How long it takes.will depend on loads of things, like how thick the meat is, whether it started at room temp or fridge temp, how hot the oven/pan is etc. Don't worry about the time, just get a meat thermometer and wait for the number you need to appear.

[Eversleigh]

I've always worked on once it hits the temp, rest then eat. I'm sure you have one, but a wireless thermometer works wonders with big joints of meat. Good luck.

[21TonyK]

Pistom said:

I'm currently following a slow cooker recipe for a 1kg shoulder of lamb which says cook on "low" for 8-10 hours but the internal temp of the lamb is 70 deg C - isn't that too high and too long?

Is there anywhere I can find guides on how long to cook meats for?

The reason for cooking lamb shoulder longer is to allow the fats and connective tissues to break down. Different cuts of meat will need different times if not temperatures. For example fillet steak is very tender, almost no fats or connective tissues. This can be cooked faster than say something like cheek which is tougher and has more tissues to break down.

Hugh Fearnlys book "Meat" is a good read and guide.

[Pistom]

I love PH - it's like the answer to anything you ever wanted to know is here - motoring related or not.

I can see a day when PH will be issuing graduation certificates.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

[21TonyK]

If you want to know more (than you need) for the sake of it then a used copy of...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Molecular-Gastronomy-Expl...

[Pistom]

That looks like my kind of book - thank you.

[prand]

My cheap cooking probe thermometer has helped me in the kitchen and BBQ no end (one like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Thermometer-Stain... ) . This lets me keep the probe in the meat in the oven and monitor it as it heats up to the best safe temperature. it also has an alarm for when the meat hits the right temperature.

You just need to have a note of the optimum and safe cooking time for meats. I usually use 75C as a general rule of thumb as the safe temperature to kill most bacteria in poultry and reheated food, though you can cook rare beef anything from 45C upwards.

For example, we reached the correct cooked temp on our Xmas turkey in about 80 minutes, if I had followed the "15 mins a pound then 40 mins" or other similar guidelines we'd have been roasting it away for another 2 hours. No wonder people hate turkey and think it's dry and tasteless if they cook it as described! We had to bring forward sitting down at the table a bit at the time, but gone are the days of getting up at 0500hrs to put the turkey in the oven.

Regarding your question about slow cooking lamb, there is a difference between being safe to eat, and good to eat. If you casserole stewing steak for instance at a high heat (say 180C) in the oven, it will reach safe cooked temperature quite quickly, but will still be chewy and gristly.

So the best approach is to lower the temperature to cook more gristly meat more gently and let the fat and connective tissue break down without totally cremating the outside of the meat or other ingredients.

When I cook a big hunk (2 kg or more) of pork shoulder on my smoker, it takes 12 hours or so at about 110-120C (I use a probe to check the temp in the smoker and one in the meat). When the temperature of the meat reaches about 90-95C it's done, which is way over the recommended safe limit, but ensures the meat completely falls apart and is perfect for pulled pork.

Alternatively, I usually smoke a Christmas gammon but as this is usually a very lean joint and I want it to be sliced easily, it only needs enough cooking at 120C for around 5 hours for the internal temperature to reach 65-70C and it's done.

Edited by prand on Wednesday 3rd October 16:02

[Pistom]

The probe thermometer looks useful - ordered.

[21TonyK]

First comes the probe, then the unhealthy obsession with knives and sharpening systems, then comes the vac pac and the water bath. Next its foam guns and reverse spherification followed by a detailed understanding of natural yeasts.

Before you know it you are a cookery geek and even something as simple as pizza is not up to standard unless its created from dough with a named starter, tomatoes you have grown and mozzarella you have made.

Its a slippery slope.

[Pistom]

21TonyK said:

First comes the probe............

Its a slippery slope.

You won't believe this - just been looking at the knives thinking - how have I coped with these?

[saaby93]

21TonyK said:

Before you know it you are a cookery geek and even something as simple as pizza

Can someone explain how to cook a 12" pizza?
In a fan oven the things always come out with the edges verging on being charred yet the centre can be nearly as cold as a cucumber
Top tip -use a small plate as a guide to cut out the middle 7" and pop it in the microwave

[Dogwatch]

Pistom said:

For Minced Beef
Medium rare - 55°C (131°F)
Medium - 60°C (140°F)
Medium well - 65°C (149°F)
Well done - 70°C (158°F)

I really don't like the sound of this. Part-cooked mince whether sossies, burgers or whatever sounds like a recipe for loo-time if not a trip to A&E. I never release minced meat from the barbecue unless it has reached at least 70c

[Du1point8]

Pistom said:

21TonyK said:

First comes the probe............

Its a slippery slope.

You won't believe this - just been looking at the knives thinking - how have I coped with these?

I would have a look at this:

https://anovaculinary.com/

Its a fantastic bit of tech and yes this does lead to other things.

[prand]

saaby93 said:

Can someone explain how to cook a 12" pizza?
In a fan oven the things always come out with the edges verging on being charred yet the centre can be nearly as cold as a cucumber
Top tip -use a small plate as a guide to cut out the middle 7" and pop it in the microwave

Burning can be avoided by dropping recommended temperature by 20C or so, though you're supposed to cook pizza as hot as poss so that's defeating the object a bit. I tend to turn my oven fan off a lot especially when cookign food that's not covered, I find it scorches and dries rather than cooks, (does it make sense that it blows the moisture away?)

For pizza, I try and get the oven as hot as possible (220C+) with the fan off and best results use a pre-heated pizza stone so the stone cooks directly from underneath as well as the hot air of the oven cooking it. Best results of all, of course, are obtained with a wood fired stone pizza oven, another essential "gadget" for the budding chef!

Edited by prand on Thursday 4th October 12:38

[bigandclever]

saaby93 said:

Can someone explain how to cook a 12" pizza?
In a fan oven the things always come out with the edges verging on being charred yet the centre can be nearly as cold as a cucumber
Top tip -use a small plate as a guide to cut out the middle 7" and pop it in the microwave

Pizza steel for me. More expensive than a pizza stone, bloody heavy but it works a treat.

[HarryFlatters]

bigandclever said:

saaby93 said:

Can someone explain how to cook a 12" pizza?
In a fan oven the things always come out with the edges verging on being charred yet the centre can be nearly as cold as a cucumber
Top tip -use a small plate as a guide to cut out the middle 7" and pop it in the microwave

Pizza steel for me. More expensive than a pizza stone, bloody heavy but it works a treat.

I went with a cast iron one, same result.

Can even keep it warm on the gas hob while I'm loading ingredients onto the base before it goes in the oven. Super crispy every time.

[Bullett]

A pizza oven is the only way to cook great pizza.
400c ish cooks them in a few minutes.
Then you need to make your own dough, sauce and mozzarella and cure your own meats.

For which you will need a smoker.

See what you've started?

[LordGrover]

Dogwatch said:

Pistom said:

For Minced Beef
Medium rare - 55°C (131°F)
Medium - 60°C (140°F)
Medium well - 65°C (149°F)
Well done - 70°C (158°F)

I really don't like the sound of this. Part-cooked mince whether sossies, burgers or whatever sounds like a recipe for loo-time if not a trip to A&E. I never release minced meat from the barbecue unless it has reached at least 70c

I guess it depends on how much you trust the source. Bought from local (trusted) butcher I have no concerns about rare minced beef.
For beef tartare I'd make a special request though, or mince myself.