Bread machine, help me improve results
Discussion
We bought a Panasonic bread maker at the weekend. The one with the yeast and fruit dispenser. So far, I've had mixed results. The bread tastes fine, but there's a couple of things I'm not happy with.
When the bread first cools down I cut into slices. It's light, fluffy and bright white. I then place the loaf in bag and pop it in a cupboard. Within hours, and especially the next day, the bread has lost it's lovely white colour and turns a kind of grey (I'd say it looks like 50/50 bread). Each slice also seems to firm up and become heavy. For toast it's great, but not so great for sandwiches.
In terms of how I'm making the bread. I've tried a number of recipes with similar results.
Using program [01] on the machine, this is the latest recipe I'm following;
- 450g Allisons Strong Bread Flour
- 1 1/2 tsp Allisons Easy Bake Yeast (put into the yeast dispenser on the machine)
- 1 1/2 tsp Table Salt
- 1 1/2 tsp Sugar (Granulated)
- 25g Softened Salted Butter (I've tried unsalted too)
- 225ml Warm Water (straight from the hot tap - combi boiler)
What I'm looking for is a loaf that stays white and fluffy for at least a 2-3 days, and something that is fine toasted and used in sandwiches. Our 8 year old has packed lunch for school, so it would be good if we could use it in his lunchbox, at the minute, it's just too heavy.
A couple of things I think I could try to see if they make a difference;
- Use filtered water or bottled water and warm it up slightly to rule out tap water causing any problems
- Change to a different brand of table salt, as I've read sometimes something in some salts can make the bread go grey
Any advice/pointers from any bread making experts would be appreciated.
When the bread first cools down I cut into slices. It's light, fluffy and bright white. I then place the loaf in bag and pop it in a cupboard. Within hours, and especially the next day, the bread has lost it's lovely white colour and turns a kind of grey (I'd say it looks like 50/50 bread). Each slice also seems to firm up and become heavy. For toast it's great, but not so great for sandwiches.
In terms of how I'm making the bread. I've tried a number of recipes with similar results.
Using program [01] on the machine, this is the latest recipe I'm following;
- 450g Allisons Strong Bread Flour
- 1 1/2 tsp Allisons Easy Bake Yeast (put into the yeast dispenser on the machine)
- 1 1/2 tsp Table Salt
- 1 1/2 tsp Sugar (Granulated)
- 25g Softened Salted Butter (I've tried unsalted too)
- 225ml Warm Water (straight from the hot tap - combi boiler)
What I'm looking for is a loaf that stays white and fluffy for at least a 2-3 days, and something that is fine toasted and used in sandwiches. Our 8 year old has packed lunch for school, so it would be good if we could use it in his lunchbox, at the minute, it's just too heavy.
A couple of things I think I could try to see if they make a difference;
- Use filtered water or bottled water and warm it up slightly to rule out tap water causing any problems
- Change to a different brand of table salt, as I've read sometimes something in some salts can make the bread go grey
Any advice/pointers from any bread making experts would be appreciated.
Landcrab_Six said:
That looks like too much butter and not enough water.
The basic recipe for my Panasonic uses 400g flour, 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp easy bake yeast, 1 tsp salt, 15g butter and 290ml water.
(I've also substituted live yeast when I've had it)
That's more like the standard recipe I use, don't add sugar though.The basic recipe for my Panasonic uses 400g flour, 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp easy bake yeast, 1 tsp salt, 15g butter and 290ml water.
(I've also substituted live yeast when I've had it)
Slicing once cooled rather than when needed isn't going to help the bread last
Landcrab_Six said:
That looks like too much butter and not enough water.
The basic recipe for my Panasonic uses 400g flour, 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp easy bake yeast, 1 tsp salt, 15g butter and 290ml water.
(I've also substituted live yeast when I've had it)
I forgot to mention, I'm making a large loaf. When I check the book that came with the machine the medium loaf ingredients are similar to yours. I did try the recipe that came with the machine, but I had similar results.The basic recipe for my Panasonic uses 400g flour, 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp easy bake yeast, 1 tsp salt, 15g butter and 290ml water.
(I've also substituted live yeast when I've had it)
I'm on my second Panasonic (the first died after some years of regular use), and the recipe for wholemeal large is significantly different from the recipe with the first machine. For a large wholemeal loaf I use 1 teaspoon of fast acting yeast (Hovis preferably), 500g wholemeal flour (Carr's when available), 1.5 teaspoons salt, 1.5 dessertspoons sugar, 25 g olive oil, and 360ml water. The later machine has reduced the sugar to teaspoons instead of dessertspoons so I assume sugar quantity is non-critical. I was advised by the manufacturer than the water to flour proportions were the most important. Usually we have a decently risen loaf but occasionally, and probably seasonally affected, they are less well risen. Carr's flour is excellent except on the very occasional times when it can be rubbish. Factory made Chorleywood process bread is formulated to keep better than 'proper' bread and it spoils the consumer into believing that all bread should have a long shelf life - it doesn't have.
Scantily said:
I think the issue is you pre slicing the bread, homemade bread does not last as long as shop bought due to lack of preservatives. The exposed end of a loaf will dry out relatively quickly even if stored properly, I suggest you slice it as you need it.
I did consider that. I'll give it a go.We’ve been using the panny breadmakers for 10 years, and tried every ingredient / brand combo there is.
Carrs or Allisons flour and Allisons Easy Bake yeast are the best for the Panasonic. Salt type won’t make much if any difference to the bake.
I definitely think you are using too little water, we use 360ml on the large setting, so I reckon you should be nearer 280ml. I would also use tepid / slight warm water rather than hot aswell.
Regards keeping the bread fresh. Homemade bread is only really at its best for 24 hours, after which it will go a little heavy and soft. It doesn’t have any preservatives, so it’s normal.
I would either not slice the bread, only when needed and use within 24 hours, or slice and bag it in 2 or 4 slices per bag and pop it in the freezer. It will keep really well, and thaws back to near fresh quality in 30-60 mins. Quicker with a little and subtle help from a microwave.
Carrs or Allisons flour and Allisons Easy Bake yeast are the best for the Panasonic. Salt type won’t make much if any difference to the bake.
I definitely think you are using too little water, we use 360ml on the large setting, so I reckon you should be nearer 280ml. I would also use tepid / slight warm water rather than hot aswell.
Regards keeping the bread fresh. Homemade bread is only really at its best for 24 hours, after which it will go a little heavy and soft. It doesn’t have any preservatives, so it’s normal.
I would either not slice the bread, only when needed and use within 24 hours, or slice and bag it in 2 or 4 slices per bag and pop it in the freezer. It will keep really well, and thaws back to near fresh quality in 30-60 mins. Quicker with a little and subtle help from a microwave.
Ham_and_Jam said:
...
Regards keeping the bread fresh. Homemade bread is only really at its best for 24 hours, after which it will go a little heavy and soft. It doesn’t have any preservatives, so it’s normal.
...
This.Regards keeping the bread fresh. Homemade bread is only really at its best for 24 hours, after which it will go a little heavy and soft. It doesn’t have any preservatives, so it’s normal.
...
And the toast it makes after 24hrs is cracking too.
Sadly I'm low-carb'ing now. But fresh bread like this is the biggest thing I miss
Never had good results with any bread maker, even the famed Panasonic models.
The wife once threw a loaf away by tipping it out of the tin and into the bin, complete with the mixing blade still stuck in the base of the loaf.
I couldn't be bothered to buy a new blade so I took it to the tip.
Even fresh bread tends to only lasts a day, before it goes dry. the best bread for longevity is wonderful Warburtons Toastie, probably due to being filled with preservatives.
The wife once threw a loaf away by tipping it out of the tin and into the bin, complete with the mixing blade still stuck in the base of the loaf.
I couldn't be bothered to buy a new blade so I took it to the tip.
Even fresh bread tends to only lasts a day, before it goes dry. the best bread for longevity is wonderful Warburtons Toastie, probably due to being filled with preservatives.
I got rid of my Panasonic bread maker and make all our bread by hand now but looking at your recipe I would say:
1. That’s a LOT of salt would use no more than a teaspoon
2. Definitely don’t use salted butter, as someone else said a tablespoon of olive oil is a good alternative
3. Assuming that is white flour (stoneground?) then I wouldn’t expect to add warm water, rather use cool or cold water
4. I know you said you wanted fluffy, white bread but that’s awfully hard to make at home - what about a slightly brown loaf - say 3/4 white and 1/4 whole meal - no colour issues as you’ll expect it to be slightly brown (on which point if you are using stoneground that is already going to be a small percentage wholemeal anyway so will never be bright white
1. That’s a LOT of salt would use no more than a teaspoon
2. Definitely don’t use salted butter, as someone else said a tablespoon of olive oil is a good alternative
3. Assuming that is white flour (stoneground?) then I wouldn’t expect to add warm water, rather use cool or cold water
4. I know you said you wanted fluffy, white bread but that’s awfully hard to make at home - what about a slightly brown loaf - say 3/4 white and 1/4 whole meal - no colour issues as you’ll expect it to be slightly brown (on which point if you are using stoneground that is already going to be a small percentage wholemeal anyway so will never be bright white
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