Save yourself 10-20% in restaurants

[V8mate]

Time to do something about it! If you support it, please forward it to your email networks too!


http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/gratuities/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to ban the practice of restaurant-owners applying service charges to bills.

The use of service charges, obligatory or optional, by restaurant owners has a negative effect on both the paying customer and the waiting staff.

Prices on menus should be fully inclusive of all taxes and charges applicable to dining at a particular establishment.

Gratuities (tips) should be entirely at the discretion of the customer and not form part of the waiting staff's core wages from their employer.

This policy will ensure a transparent cost to the customer and will encourage staff to provide the highest level of service in order to receive discretionary gratuities.

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 23 October 18:23

[SMcP114]

Or you could do a runner and save yourself 100% of the bill..

Not much more illegal than adding a fking service charge on without your consent!!

[richyb]

Gratuities are optional and always have been. You can request to have them removed if you would like. Did you never think to ask????

Edited by richyb on Thursday 23 October 18:23

[V8mate]

richyb said:

Gratuities are optional and oyu can request for them to not be included. Did you never think to ask????

Service charges are not always optional!

[richyb]

V8mate said:

richyb said:

Gratuities are optional and oyu can request for them to not be included. Did you never think to ask????

Service charges are not always optional!

What service charges are you referring to? Tips/gratuities aren't compulsory.

[V8mate]

richyb said:

V8mate said:

richyb said:

Gratuities are optional and oyu can request for them to not be included. Did you never think to ask????

Service charges are not always optional!

What service charges are you referring to? Tips/gratuities aren't compulsory.

I am referring to restaurants who have a fully priced menu and who then state, in small print, that a service charge is payable. Sometimes these state optional, sometimes compulsory. Either way, it's the owner hiding behind his staff and his staff not feeling motivated, especially since the introduction of 'at table' electronic payment. Also confusing for the customer, as it removes the 'did I'/'didn't I' of tipping.

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 23 October 18:29

[illmonkey]

V8mate said:

richyb said:

Gratuities are optional and oyu can request for them to not be included. Did you never think to ask????

Service charges are not always optional!

Are you talking about the one they'll put on the bill if there is 6 or 8+?

It IS optional. Many times i've not been happy with £20 for a tip, for a crap service. So haven't paid all of it.

[richyb]

V8mate said:

richyb said:

V8mate said:

richyb said:

Gratuities are optional and oyu can request for them to not be included. Did you never think to ask????

Service charges are not always optional!

What service charges are you referring to? Tips/gratuities aren't compulsory.

I am referring to restaurants who have a fully priced menu and who then state, in small print, that a service charge is payable. Sometimes these state optional, sometimes compulsory. Either way, it's the owner hiding behind his staff and his staff not feeling motivated, especially since the introduction of 'at table' electronic payment. Also confusing for the customer, as it removes the 'did I'/'didn't I' of tipping.

Sorry buddy, I don't think this is the case. Often places say they will add a 12.5% (or whatever) to the bill for large groups but this is still not binding and you are not legally required to pay it. It is still an optional gratuities which you can choose to give. Google the 'Tronc' system. This is a fair more unfair practise used in restaurants.

Edited by richyb on Thursday 23 October 18:33

[IforB]

Iagree with this 100%. Tips and the way they are used in the UK is seriously hooky, from both a punter and staff point of view. So petition duly signed.

[shadowninja]

It's easy and legal: cross off the service charge and give the cash as a tip to the serving staff.

Snag with service charge is that it is at the discretion of the restaurant owner to pay the staff this money at the end of the month. And serving staff are often paid below the minimum wage with the notion that the difference will be made up in tips. <insert your own rude word here>

[V8mate]

I'm not looking to argue the toss with anyone. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

Whether compulsory (and not just for groups) or voluntary (thereby creating an obligation, because most people don't want to ruin a nice evening with a row) I feel that 'service charges' stink of 'rip-off'. They are used by restaurants to boost profits/cover wage bill away from the main input/output nature of their accounts.

It is not really transparent trading.

Tesco doesn't add 'an amount' at the till for having stocked the shelves for you or had an employee waiting at a checkout.

Tips, on the other hand, are a customer's way of saying 'thank you' for great service; not the minimum to get your meal to your table.

[richyb]

V8mate said:

I'm not looking to argue the toss with anyone. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

Whether compulsory (and not just for groups) or voluntary (thereby creating an obligation, because most people don't want to ruin a nice evening with a row) I feel that 'service charges' stink of 'rip-off'. They are used by restaurants to boost profits/cover wage bill away from the main input/output nature of their accounts.

It is not really transparent trading.

Tesco doesn't add 'an amount' at the till for having stocked the shelves for you or had an employee waiting at a checkout.

Tips, on the other hand, are a customer's way of saying 'thank you' for great service; not the minimum to get your meal to your table.

I'm not arguing with you. I am just saying you don't need a petition to solve this. When the bill is presented you just ask for the service charge to be removed, no row, no fuss. The Tronc system is something a lot of people are already trying to get rid of because restaurants use it to make the wages upto the minimum hourly rate. There is probably a larger petition you can join.

[Jasandjules]

Perhaps the idea of the petition would also ensure that staff get paid the minimum wage at least... And would stop owners nicking the tips for themselves, when they are left for the staff........ I'd quite like that myself...

[ln1234]

richyb said:

V8mate said:

I'm not looking to argue the toss with anyone. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

Whether compulsory (and not just for groups) or voluntary (thereby creating an obligation, because most people don't want to ruin a nice evening with a row) I feel that 'service charges' stink of 'rip-off'. They are used by restaurants to boost profits/cover wage bill away from the main input/output nature of their accounts.

It is not really transparent trading.

Tesco doesn't add 'an amount' at the till for having stocked the shelves for you or had an employee waiting at a checkout.

Tips, on the other hand, are a customer's way of saying 'thank you' for great service; not the minimum to get your meal to your table.

I'm not arguing with you. I am just saying you don't need a petition to solve this. When the bill is presented you just ask for the service charge to be removed, no row, no fuss. The Tronc system is something a lot of people are already trying to get rid of because restaurants use it to make the wages upto the minimum hourly rate. There is probably a larger petition you can join.

Have you actually had experience of asking for the service charge to be removed? If so, would you mind naming some of these establishments where it's worked? I can understand if you don't want to divulge specifics, but if you know of any chains that are ok with it then i'd like to know. In London it seems the norm to add a service charge and then expect a tip on top. If you have a problem with it they make it sound like there is a problem and get the manager involved, who then asks you why you want the charge removed. Not very nice in front of company.

Edited by ln1234 on Thursday 23 October 19:20

[richyb]

ln1234 said:

richyb said:

V8mate said:

I'm not looking to argue the toss with anyone. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

Whether compulsory (and not just for groups) or voluntary (thereby creating an obligation, because most people don't want to ruin a nice evening with a row) I feel that 'service charges' stink of 'rip-off'. They are used by restaurants to boost profits/cover wage bill away from the main input/output nature of their accounts.

It is not really transparent trading.

Tesco doesn't add 'an amount' at the till for having stocked the shelves for you or had an employee waiting at a checkout.

Tips, on the other hand, are a customer's way of saying 'thank you' for great service; not the minimum to get your meal to your table.

I'm not arguing with you. I am just saying you don't need a petition to solve this. When the bill is presented you just ask for the service charge to be removed, no row, no fuss. The Tronc system is something a lot of people are already trying to get rid of because restaurants use it to make the wages upto the minimum hourly rate. There is probably a larger petition you can join.

Have you actually had experience of asking for the service charge to be removed? If so, would you mind naming some of these establishments where it's worked? I can understand if you don't want to divulge specifics, but if you know of any chains that are ok with it then i'd like to know. In London it seems the norm to add a service charge and then expect a tip on top. If you have a problem with it they make it sound like there is a problem and get the manager involved, who then asks you why you want the charge removed. Not very nice in front of company.

Couldn't possibly remember all the restaurants I've been to in the last few years but I ask for it to be removed everytime. I get my bill, ask them to remove the tip as I always leave it in cash. I have never once in probably 40-50 times had a problem with this and even if the manager was called I would tell them the same. I tip in cash because I don't agree with the tronc system and I want it to go to the specific waiter/waitress. I can't believe how timid you guys must be to not even ask in case they question you about it.

[A8VIP]

V8mate said:

Time to do something about it! If you support it, please forward it to your email networks too!


http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/gratuities/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to ban the practice of restaurant-owners applying service charges to bills.

The use of service charges, obligatory or optional, by restaurant owners has a negative effect on both the paying customer and the waiting staff.

Prices on menus should be fully inclusive of all taxes and charges applicable to dining at a particular establishment.

Gratuities (tips) should be entirely at the discretion of the customer and not form part of the waiting staff's core wages from their employer.

This policy will ensure a transparent cost to the customer and will encourage staff to provide the highest level of service in order to receive discretionary gratuities.

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 23 October 18:23

Don't waste your opinion on a Government run dumping ground for the countries anger!

WRITE TO YOUR MP! OR GB HIMSELF!!!

The whole reason the sodding Petitions website was set up, was to neatly package all the grumbling folks into an easy to ignore bit of cyberspace.

I bet the Government love the fact that there's not sacks of letters pouring into Number 10 anymore, they must be laughing.

GB "Where's the total sum of the Nation's vented spleen this week, Tarquin?"

Tarquin "It's on this memory stick, Gordon!"

FFS!

[richyb]

A8VIP said:

V8mate said:

Time to do something about it! If you support it, please forward it to your email networks too!


http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/gratuities/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to ban the practice of restaurant-owners applying service charges to bills.

The use of service charges, obligatory or optional, by restaurant owners has a negative effect on both the paying customer and the waiting staff.

Prices on menus should be fully inclusive of all taxes and charges applicable to dining at a particular establishment.

Gratuities (tips) should be entirely at the discretion of the customer and not form part of the waiting staff's core wages from their employer.

This policy will ensure a transparent cost to the customer and will encourage staff to provide the highest level of service in order to receive discretionary gratuities.

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 23 October 18:23

Don't waste your opinion on a Government run dumping ground for the countries anger!

WRITE TO YOUR MP! OR GB HIMSELF!!!

The whole reason the sodding Petitions website was set up, was to neatly package all the grumbling folks into an easy to ignore bit of cyberspace.

I bet the Government love the fact that there's not sacks of letters pouring into Number 10 anymore, they must be laughing.

GB "Where's the total sum of the Nation's vented spleen this week, Tarquin?"

Tarquin "It's on this memory stick, Gordon!"

FFS!

Exactly.

No letters to dispose of, no phone calls, no people hanging about outside number 10. Just 'select all' then 'delete'.

[briSk]

..OR MAYBE THEY COULD JUST ADD THE SERVICE CHARGE INTO THE PRICE OF THE 'COMPONENTS' (like every other retailer/service provider)...

if a service charge were a random 20% or something fair enough. but only a retard should be surprised by an additional 10-15%...

yes fed up because i am still at work grrrr etc.

[V8mate]

richyb said:

ln1234 said:

richyb said:

V8mate said:

I'm not looking to argue the toss with anyone. If you don't agree, don't sign it.

Whether compulsory (and not just for groups) or voluntary (thereby creating an obligation, because most people don't want to ruin a nice evening with a row) I feel that 'service charges' stink of 'rip-off'. They are used by restaurants to boost profits/cover wage bill away from the main input/output nature of their accounts.

It is not really transparent trading.

Tesco doesn't add 'an amount' at the till for having stocked the shelves for you or had an employee waiting at a checkout.

Tips, on the other hand, are a customer's way of saying 'thank you' for great service; not the minimum to get your meal to your table.

I'm not arguing with you. I am just saying you don't need a petition to solve this. When the bill is presented you just ask for the service charge to be removed, no row, no fuss. The Tronc system is something a lot of people are already trying to get rid of because restaurants use it to make the wages upto the minimum hourly rate. There is probably a larger petition you can join.

Have you actually had experience of asking for the service charge to be removed? If so, would you mind naming some of these establishments where it's worked? I can understand if you don't want to divulge specifics, but if you know of any chains that are ok with it then i'd like to know. In London it seems the norm to add a service charge and then expect a tip on top. If you have a problem with it they make it sound like there is a problem and get the manager involved, who then asks you why you want the charge removed. Not very nice in front of company.

Couldn't possibly remember all the restaurants I've been to in the last few years but I ask for it to be removed everytime. I get my bill, ask them to remove the tip as I always leave it in cash. I have never once in probably 40-50 times had a problem with this and even if the manager was called I would tell them the same. I tip in cash because I don't agree with the tronc system and I want it to go to the specific waiter/waitress. I can't believe how timid you guys must be to not even ask in case they question you about it.

It has nothing to do with timidity. Believe me, you won't meet anyone less bullish.

For me, it's to do with not wanting to create any sense of confrontation when out eating; I'd like to be able to return to a restaurant without wondering why my coffee is 'extra frothy'. For my fellow diners, I want to remove any doubt about the price of a meal out and leave the option of complimenting good service entirely with them. The service charge greys these two elements.

[V8mate]

richyb said:

A8VIP said:

V8mate said:

Time to do something about it! If you support it, please forward it to your email networks too!


http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/gratuities/

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to ban the practice of restaurant-owners applying service charges to bills.

The use of service charges, obligatory or optional, by restaurant owners has a negative effect on both the paying customer and the waiting staff.

Prices on menus should be fully inclusive of all taxes and charges applicable to dining at a particular establishment.

Gratuities (tips) should be entirely at the discretion of the customer and not form part of the waiting staff's core wages from their employer.

This policy will ensure a transparent cost to the customer and will encourage staff to provide the highest level of service in order to receive discretionary gratuities.

Edited by V8mate on Thursday 23 October 18:23

Don't waste your opinion on a Government run dumping ground for the countries anger!

WRITE TO YOUR MP! OR GB HIMSELF!!!

The whole reason the sodding Petitions website was set up, was to neatly package all the grumbling folks into an easy to ignore bit of cyberspace.

I bet the Government love the fact that there's not sacks of letters pouring into Number 10 anymore, they must be laughing.

GB "Where's the total sum of the Nation's vented spleen this week, Tarquin?"

Tarquin "It's on this memory stick, Gordon!"

FFS!

Exactly.

No letters to dispose of, no phone calls, no people hanging about outside number 10. Just 'select all' then 'delete'.

Apparently, if you get 200 signatures or more, you get moved to a special memory stick (probably an MI5 one so it can be specifically lost/misplaced)

I'm not really the 'petition' sort (hence my not wanting to argue about it); I'm just getting more and more fed up with this 'premium' on eating out, fed up of the percentage creeping up and up and yet service levels going down, if anything.

Just want to do something. I'll certainly write to my MP too, highlighting my 'campaign', but he's even less use than a blanket on a wet weekend.