Vege v Meat Eating
Discussion
I know, its not very PH to not go and shoot your own dinner - but I need some assistance here.
I need some useful, and informative facts regarding the pros and cons from both sides, however, my slant needs to be that there is no need to eat meat in order to maintain a healthy diet.
Background:
My stepkids father has suddenly decided that he is going to change their diet from vege (not vegan!) to include meat.
As per usual he has used some fictitious information that he has alledgedly been given by a nutritionalist!? Yeah right... and is now basically breaking a long standing agreement that was in place that the kids would be raised vege until such time as they could decide for themselves (now aged 6 and 9).
Personally, I am happy to live with eating vege around the house, and if I go out I am also happy to eat meat, but SWMBO does not and will not eat meat, and is now facing another broaching of agreement with the ex probably due to lazyness and simply to try and cause issues again.
My first thought was to simply give the kids all the facts, show them a piece of bacon - then show them where it comes from and how they get that product from the thing that was wandering round the field!? Shock tactics or acceptable? Any good sites showing meat production in an honest and open educational way?
Secondly, to back up her theory that with a balanced and healthy diet they are not missing out (and may infact be benefiting) on the staple nutrition they need whilst growing up - We eat eggs, milk, cheese, butter etc and a LOT of fresh fruit and fresh veg go into virtually every meal.
To be honest Im sick to death of this t
t causing trouble every five minutes, and his idea of a good balanced school dinner is jam sandwiches, a chocolate bar and some crisps..... He's also happy for them to binge on sugary cake/pastry products (from his baker family) to the point of being ill from the intake.
You can probably see what sort of a brainless ct mentallity we are up against here so any helpful links, facts, pics etc all greatfully received.
Offers of professional 'hits' and disposal also greatfully received
I need some useful, and informative facts regarding the pros and cons from both sides, however, my slant needs to be that there is no need to eat meat in order to maintain a healthy diet.
Background:
My stepkids father has suddenly decided that he is going to change their diet from vege (not vegan!) to include meat.
As per usual he has used some fictitious information that he has alledgedly been given by a nutritionalist!? Yeah right... and is now basically breaking a long standing agreement that was in place that the kids would be raised vege until such time as they could decide for themselves (now aged 6 and 9).
Personally, I am happy to live with eating vege around the house, and if I go out I am also happy to eat meat, but SWMBO does not and will not eat meat, and is now facing another broaching of agreement with the ex probably due to lazyness and simply to try and cause issues again.
My first thought was to simply give the kids all the facts, show them a piece of bacon - then show them where it comes from and how they get that product from the thing that was wandering round the field!? Shock tactics or acceptable? Any good sites showing meat production in an honest and open educational way?
Secondly, to back up her theory that with a balanced and healthy diet they are not missing out (and may infact be benefiting) on the staple nutrition they need whilst growing up - We eat eggs, milk, cheese, butter etc and a LOT of fresh fruit and fresh veg go into virtually every meal.
To be honest Im sick to death of this t
t causing trouble every five minutes, and his idea of a good balanced school dinner is jam sandwiches, a chocolate bar and some crisps..... He's also happy for them to binge on sugary cake/pastry products (from his baker family) to the point of being ill from the intake. You can probably see what sort of a brainless c
t mentallity we are up against here so any helpful links, facts, pics etc all greatfully received. Offers of professional 'hits' and disposal also greatfully received
Don said:
It's really difficult to obtain the complete set of amino acids necessary for good health if you eat a vegetarian diet. You have to work at it - which I expect your other half does. It isn't necessary to eat meat: but it's easier.
Exactly - and their lazy ct of a father considers it too much hassle to even give them a decent balanced meal, without pumping burgers and meatballs down their necks for his own 'convenience'... 
Well firstly we are omnivores, so biologically we are designed to eat pretty much everything. From what I understand there is nothing damaging about eating meat in moderation ( though fatty meat 3x a day probably isn't the best recipie for a long life )
So the debate you are left with is a purely ethical/moral one. Do you want to see cows as big lumpy things if the field standing around doing cow things, or as providers of calories, amino acids, protein, fats and part of a delicious Kahuna burger, leather products, glues, and a host of binders, fillers and associated bi-products and MRM's for the tin 'meat industry'?
IMO 9 is a perfectly acceptable age to decide if you want to eat meat or not. You're old enough to exercise free will.
As for the idea of showing them where meat comes from, how it's killed etc, well that's an interesting idea. Cue, on one hand the doe-eyed pictures of calfs standing there in the moments pre stun gun and eviceration vs the clean, humane and caring approach on the ethical abatoir.
Tough call this, once you've eaten meat you can't un-eat it, yet that in itself perhaps is the biggest ethical/moral stick used in this debate. Tough call this.
Personally, I see little reason to bring up children as vegetarians but vegan I think is a step too far, simply because of the dietary constraints and limitations it places upon exploration of food and flavours.
BBC3 ran a series called 'kill it, cook it, eat it'. If it's around maybe that would be an interesting thing to show them. From what I remember, it actually did try to be unbiased and it showed the slaughter of cows, pigs, chickens and other things besides and the ethical/moral debates that sat along side.
edit: actually the BBC3 prog did have some kind of age warning on it so be aware..
So the debate you are left with is a purely ethical/moral one. Do you want to see cows as big lumpy things if the field standing around doing cow things, or as providers of calories, amino acids, protein, fats and part of a delicious Kahuna burger, leather products, glues, and a host of binders, fillers and associated bi-products and MRM's for the tin 'meat industry'?
IMO 9 is a perfectly acceptable age to decide if you want to eat meat or not. You're old enough to exercise free will.
As for the idea of showing them where meat comes from, how it's killed etc, well that's an interesting idea. Cue, on one hand the doe-eyed pictures of calfs standing there in the moments pre stun gun and eviceration vs the clean, humane and caring approach on the ethical abatoir.
Tough call this, once you've eaten meat you can't un-eat it, yet that in itself perhaps is the biggest ethical/moral stick used in this debate. Tough call this.
Personally, I see little reason to bring up children as vegetarians but vegan I think is a step too far, simply because of the dietary constraints and limitations it places upon exploration of food and flavours.
BBC3 ran a series called 'kill it, cook it, eat it'. If it's around maybe that would be an interesting thing to show them. From what I remember, it actually did try to be unbiased and it showed the slaughter of cows, pigs, chickens and other things besides and the ethical/moral debates that sat along side.
edit: actually the BBC3 prog did have some kind of age warning on it so be aware..
Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Tuesday 15th December 12:20
RizzoTheRat said:
Beef's just processed grass, it's fine for vegetarians.
and so on a connected note: If so many people were'nt reliant upon their burgers / steaks / offle etc, surely there would be considerably less gas being emitted into the atmosphere and we could all ride round in V8's without the loonies being up in arms at us toasting the penguins!?
Perhaps Im getting a little excited now, anyway, I digress:
I like the idea of the BBC3 programmes that showed the processes involved, Im not sure how upsetting this may be to young eyes - But the problem is that this was an agreement. They have always been vege to date, and I dont believe he should have the right to suddenly decide its too much hassle and then climb on the 'Nutrition' bandwagon to fly in the face of my Mrs nutritional morals at his whim.
Im not sure its going to be good me watching these programmes either. If I catch sight of a bolt gun Im likely to get all over excited and conspiratorial again
A911DOM said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Beef's just processed grass, it's fine for vegetarians.
and so on a connected note: If so many people were'nt reliant upon their burgers / steaks / offle etc, surely there would be considerably less gas being emitted into the atmosphere and we could all ride round in V8's without the loonies being up in arms at us toasting the penguins!?
Perhaps Im getting a little excited now, anyway, I digress:
I like the idea of the BBC3 programmes that showed the processes involved, Im not sure how upsetting this may be to young eyes - But the problem is that this was an agreement. They have always been vege to date, and I dont believe he should have the right to suddenly decide its too much hassle and then climb on the 'Nutrition' bandwagon to fly in the face of my Mrs nutritional morals at his whim.
Im not sure its going to be good me watching these programmes either. If I catch sight of a bolt gun Im likely to get all over excited and conspiratorial again
If he wants to feed them meat and they don't object then I don't see the problem.
Don said:
It's really difficult to obtain the complete set of amino acids necessary for good health if you eat a vegetarian diet. You have to work at it - which I expect your other half does. It isn't necessary to eat meat: but it's easier.
There's a lot of misinformation out there about omega 3, 6 & 9 oils from vegetables and seeds being suitable replacements for the real thing from fish and the like. I'm no expert but unless you expect the ex to make an exceptional effort they're going to better off with a good, healthy balanced diet. This includes occasional red meat as well as fish and chicken. It's important that kids especially get a well rounded, balanced diet. It may well be why there are so many intolerances/allergies around these days.
So says the fat, bald smoker with no kids.
obob said:
A911DOM said:
RizzoTheRat said:
Beef's just processed grass, it's fine for vegetarians.
and so on a connected note: If so many people were'nt reliant upon their burgers / steaks / offle etc, surely there would be considerably less gas being emitted into the atmosphere and we could all ride round in V8's without the loonies being up in arms at us toasting the penguins!?
Perhaps Im getting a little excited now, anyway, I digress:
I like the idea of the BBC3 programmes that showed the processes involved, Im not sure how upsetting this may be to young eyes - But the problem is that this was an agreement. They have always been vege to date, and I dont believe he should have the right to suddenly decide its too much hassle and then climb on the 'Nutrition' bandwagon to fly in the face of my Mrs nutritional morals at his whim.
Im not sure its going to be good me watching these programmes either. If I catch sight of a bolt gun Im likely to get all over excited and conspiratorial again
If he wants to feed them meat and they don't object then I don't see the problem.
It would give me great pleasure to be able to 'get one over on him', as he does not see reason, is a lying selfish ignorant pr
k with regards to anything and everything. But this is more than that, and nothing about our personal feelings towards him. The Mrs has said recently that if she was given cold hard facts to indicate that her kids (specifically) were at a significant health risk due to lackings in their diet then she would obviously ensure that they received the nutrition they need. But they are not sick, or hampered in any way through their current 'agreed' diet - Its just his lazyness and desire to constantly find the next thing to wind everyone up. The man has no moral fibre and will stop at nothing to cause as much hassle as possible, this is just one of very many things he has done to provoke the maximum possible effect.
A911DOM said:
I know, its not very PH to not go and shoot your own dinner - but I need some assistance here.
I need some useful, and informative facts regarding the pros and cons from both sides, however, my slant needs to be that there is no need to eat meat in order to maintain a healthy diet.
Sorry you lost me there. I need some useful, and informative facts regarding the pros and cons from both sides, however, my slant needs to be that there is no need to eat meat in order to maintain a healthy diet.
I fully expected (and appreciate) both sides of the argument.
But for her its a moral issue, and they AGREED that they would be brought up vege.
Now on a whim, he's deciding he fancies rocking the boat again and is completely going against their mothers wishes (whether its right of wrong to be a vege for whatever reasons).
Im still a full blown meat eater, although I dont eat meat at home out of respect for the way that they have been brought up (and I dont really fancy doing twice the shopping / cooking etc either) - I guess Im likely to be biased in her favour on this argument, but its black and white to me - they agreed, now he's deciding to break the rules and go against the mothers wishes in something as serious as part of the kids upbringing!
One thing they are not is denied treats... But you dont need to eat a steak to have chocolate or croissants do you.
But for her its a moral issue, and they AGREED that they would be brought up vege.
Now on a whim, he's deciding he fancies rocking the boat again and is completely going against their mothers wishes (whether its right of wrong to be a vege for whatever reasons).
Im still a full blown meat eater, although I dont eat meat at home out of respect for the way that they have been brought up (and I dont really fancy doing twice the shopping / cooking etc either) - I guess Im likely to be biased in her favour on this argument, but its black and white to me - they agreed, now he's deciding to break the rules and go against the mothers wishes in something as serious as part of the kids upbringing!
One thing they are not is denied treats... But you dont need to eat a steak to have chocolate or croissants do you.
Cotty said:
A911DOM said:
I know, its not very PH to not go and shoot your own dinner - but I need some assistance here.
I need some useful, and informative facts regarding the pros and cons from both sides, however, my slant needs to be that there is no need to eat meat in order to maintain a healthy diet.
Sorry you lost me there. I need some useful, and informative facts regarding the pros and cons from both sides, however, my slant needs to be that there is no need to eat meat in order to maintain a healthy diet.
A911DOM said:
If so many people were'nt reliant upon their burgers / steaks / offle etc, surely there would be considerably less gas being emitted into the atmosphere and we could all ride round in V8's without the loonies being up in arms at us toasting the penguins!?
Silent1 said:
What's her problem with then eating meat, it's not going to harm them and it's not going to affect her life.
Seems to me that she's trying to force her ideas on the kids whether they're good or not
and therein lies the problem. Seems to me that she's trying to force her ideas on the kids whether they're good or not
Is it bad for you - if so how?
There is nothing wrong with them healthwise, she's done a lot of work on getting a good variety in their diet despite the lack of meat.
And it will affect her is she then has to prepare meat for them, and she will continue to bring up our son as Vege... This is more complicated and hasslesum than it first appears.
What a bl00dy PITA...
It is very hard to say what is healthy and what is not without looking at the whole picture - a burger once a week will not do them any harm if it is balanced with exercise and they are getting all their vitamins and minerals from somewhere.
I have eaten meat my whole life, so i struggle to see the veggie point of view, but i understand it really matters to some - question is, does it matter to the kids? Guy who I know had his kid on a veggie diet, and played the full on scare tactics "burgers are cow hoofs and brains" card. Kid was in town with a group of mates and ended up having a burger (call it peer pressure or curiosity) upon his dad asking what he wanted for dinner the kid replied "cow hoofs and brains"
I have eaten meat my whole life, so i struggle to see the veggie point of view, but i understand it really matters to some - question is, does it matter to the kids? Guy who I know had his kid on a veggie diet, and played the full on scare tactics "burgers are cow hoofs and brains" card. Kid was in town with a group of mates and ended up having a burger (call it peer pressure or curiosity) upon his dad asking what he wanted for dinner the kid replied "cow hoofs and brains"
A911DOM said:
Silent1 said:
What's her problem with then eating meat, it's not going to harm them and it's not going to affect her life.
Seems to me that she's trying to force her ideas on the kids whether they're good or not
and therein lies the problem. Seems to me that she's trying to force her ideas on the kids whether they're good or not
Is it bad for you - if so how?
There is nothing wrong with them healthwise, she's done a lot of work on getting a good variety in their diet despite the lack of meat.
And it will affect her is she then has to prepare meat for them, and she will continue to bring up our son as Vege... This is more complicated and hasslesum than it first appears.
What a bl00dy PITA...
IL_JDM said:
'Raising kids as vege until they're old enough to decide for themselves'.
Well, they won't know of any other choices as their communist stepfather wants to use propaganda and scare tactics to put them off meat...?
Let them be kids for fk sake, just don't be a retard and allow them to binge on stty processed food.
agree with the spirit of this post.Well, they won't know of any other choices as their communist stepfather wants to use propaganda and scare tactics to put them off meat...?
Let them be kids for f
k sake, just don't be a retard and allow them to binge on stty processed food.Edited by IL_JDM on Tuesday 15th December 14:00
they are 6 and 9. if you explain how animals are killed and eaten you will get a completely different response than you would with a 16 or 19 yr old.
kids at that age will only think of animals as cute and fluffy. with them living with you and your veggie OH their dad is on a hiding to nowhere, though if he wants to cause trouble he'll give them maccy d's which they'll love and you're doubly f
ked.leave the preaching, their decision whether they ant meat or not should be based on taste. cook them a selection of meats and see if they like it. you can move onto the morality at a later date.
Edited by shirt on Tuesday 15th December 14:26
A911DOM said:
I fully expected (and appreciate) both sides of the argument.
But for her its a moral issue, and they AGREED that they would be brought up vege.
Now on a whim, he's deciding he fancies rocking the boat again and is completely going against their mothers wishes (whether its right of wrong to be a vege for whatever reasons).
Im still a full blown meat eater, although I dont eat meat at home out of respect for the way that they have been brought up (and I dont really fancy doing twice the shopping / cooking etc either) - I guess Im likely to be biased in her favour on this argument, but its black and white to me - they agreed, now he's deciding to break the rules and go against the mothers wishes in something as serious as part of the kids upbringing!
One thing they are not is denied treats... But you dont need to eat a steak to have chocolate or croissants do you.
It goes agains the mother's wishes but what about the father's? IMO you/your missus are being unreasonable.But for her its a moral issue, and they AGREED that they would be brought up vege.
Now on a whim, he's deciding he fancies rocking the boat again and is completely going against their mothers wishes (whether its right of wrong to be a vege for whatever reasons).
Im still a full blown meat eater, although I dont eat meat at home out of respect for the way that they have been brought up (and I dont really fancy doing twice the shopping / cooking etc either) - I guess Im likely to be biased in her favour on this argument, but its black and white to me - they agreed, now he's deciding to break the rules and go against the mothers wishes in something as serious as part of the kids upbringing!
One thing they are not is denied treats... But you dont need to eat a steak to have chocolate or croissants do you.
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