Breadmakers - hints, tips and buying advice.
Discussion
We seem to be getting through ludicrous amounts of bread so I'm thinking that a breadmaker makes sense. But I've tried one in the past and found that we ended up with small dense loaves with a funny hole in the bottom, so where was I going wrong and does anyone have any recommendations?
You'll always have a hole in the bottom. 
We're early on with ours, but I found that when using the mixes from Tesco etc, weigh the water to get exactly the right amount, and use a bit of water out of the kettle so it's not too cold for the yeast. Seems to help the loaf to rise more.
The sun dried tomato mix is lovely.
We're early on with ours, but I found that when using the mixes from Tesco etc, weigh the water to get exactly the right amount, and use a bit of water out of the kettle so it's not too cold for the yeast. Seems to help the loaf to rise more.
The sun dried tomato mix is lovely.
Dear Bill,
the only tip I've got is:
Panasonic.
Head and shoulders above others (IMHO).
The hole you get in the bottom is a "feature" of home bread making, embrace it!
Although some models have thinner paddles (leaving a smaller hole) and IIRC there are even some which fold out of the dough when it's mixed. This may just be wishful thinking though
regards,
Jet
the only tip I've got is:
Panasonic.
Head and shoulders above others (IMHO).
The hole you get in the bottom is a "feature" of home bread making, embrace it!
Although some models have thinner paddles (leaving a smaller hole) and IIRC there are even some which fold out of the dough when it's mixed. This may just be wishful thinking though
regards,
Jet
You will almost certainly never make enough bread to justify the cost of the machine. It will soon get consigned to the back of the cupboard/put on a shelf in the garage. So get the cheapest one you can. If you prove me wrong and you are still making two loaves a week by Christmas then upgrade to a better one.
/voe
/voe
Not quite ^^ Mr Hogan. That may have been the case for you but not everyone, though having said that we started with a cheap one and then upgraded to a proper one. 
ops:
Agree with above, Panasonic. End, Full stop. Rule Off.
Follow recipes closely at first, measuring very carefully.
Once you get the hang of it, you can experiment with changing the recipe, but it helps if you figure out the chemistry of breadmaking, eg salt does this so altering the amount to use less salt then means you have also to alter the sugar otherwise it rises too much and can collapse.
Adding an egg means that you have to reduce the liquid otherwise the mixture is too sloppy and so on and so on.
Panasonic instructions have a good section on this.
Almost all the bread products we make, not all, but >80% we no longer use the machine to bake it, but use it as a dough producer, and thus taking it through the mixing, kneading, letting it rise, knocking it down, kneading etc etc process automatically.
Then take the dough out, shape final prove, bake all done manually.
That allows you to deal with other than loaf shaped products, eg baps, bread rolls, pizza bases, baguettes, ficelles, boules, Tiger bread, ciabatta, burger buns, hot dog rolls, as Del Trotter would say, "World's your Lobster Rodders."
ops:Agree with above, Panasonic. End, Full stop. Rule Off.
Follow recipes closely at first, measuring very carefully.
Once you get the hang of it, you can experiment with changing the recipe, but it helps if you figure out the chemistry of breadmaking, eg salt does this so altering the amount to use less salt then means you have also to alter the sugar otherwise it rises too much and can collapse.
Adding an egg means that you have to reduce the liquid otherwise the mixture is too sloppy and so on and so on.
Panasonic instructions have a good section on this.
Almost all the bread products we make, not all, but >80% we no longer use the machine to bake it, but use it as a dough producer, and thus taking it through the mixing, kneading, letting it rise, knocking it down, kneading etc etc process automatically.
Then take the dough out, shape final prove, bake all done manually.
That allows you to deal with other than loaf shaped products, eg baps, bread rolls, pizza bases, baguettes, ficelles, boules, Tiger bread, ciabatta, burger buns, hot dog rolls, as Del Trotter would say, "World's your Lobster Rodders."
Cheers guys, the hole comment was slightly tongue in cheek.
so I'm hoping anything we buy will actually start paying for itself PDQ. And mean I don't need to keep a freezer shelf free for a half week's supply.
PaulHogan said:
You will almost certainly never make enough bread to justify the cost of the machine. It will soon get consigned to the back of the cupboard/put on a shelf in the garage. So get the cheapest one you can. If you prove me wrong and you are still making two loaves a week by Christmas then upgrade to a better one.
/voe
At the moment we're going through the best part of a loaf a day/voe
so I'm hoping anything we buy will actually start paying for itself PDQ. And mean I don't need to keep a freezer shelf free for a half week's supply.Dear Bill,
If you buy supermarket loss-leading-value-mechanically-recovered-flour-and-additives-white-sliced it is always going to be cheaper than home baking with organic wholemeal, say.
For white I go half and half Chavsda strong (52p!) and the best strong from a farm shop, say £1.50,
regards,
Jet
Bill said:
At the moment we're going through the best part of a loaf a day so I'm hoping anything we buy will actually start paying for itself PDQ. And mean I don't need to keep a freezer shelf free for a half week's supply.
I'm not sure the bread machine will ever pay for itself. It depends on how holistic/pedantic you want to be about the comparison between shop buying and home baking. so I'm hoping anything we buy will actually start paying for itself PDQ. And mean I don't need to keep a freezer shelf free for a half week's supply.If you buy supermarket loss-leading-value-mechanically-recovered-flour-and-additives-white-sliced it is always going to be cheaper than home baking with organic wholemeal, say.
For white I go half and half Chavsda strong (52p!) and the best strong from a farm shop, say £1.50,
regards,
Jet
PaulHogan said:
You will almost certainly never make enough bread to justify the cost of the machine. It will soon get consigned to the back of the cupboard/put on a shelf in the garage. So get the cheapest one you can. If you prove me wrong and you are still making two loaves a week by Christmas then upgrade to a better one.
/voe
Cobblers./voe
5 years on and we're still using ours several times a week.
When you have shop bought bread you realise how salty it is.
I bought a Tesco bread machine ( iirc £38.97) with some £10 doubled up reward vouchers...so real cost was £18.97 last November.
I haven't bought shop made bread since then. I've used the various mix packs and my everyday type loaf is usually using Lidl flour ( currently 69p for 1.5KG, used to be 50p for ages). However, whenever I visit the supermarket I check the home baking section for offers.
I put a dollop of mild olive oil in with the water, as it's supposed to give a longer life to the bread - and although it's best on the day , next day is OK, after that we're veering into toast territory - although it's still vaguely do-able as fresh bread. Next day it's definately toast only - but 4th day for any shop bought fresh bread is also toast. The plus point for home made bread is that there aren't any preservatives added...you know exactly what's gone in to make it.
I'm very pleased I bought my cheapy breadmaker and also just use the dough making facility when I'm going to be using the oven for other things...ie pies, stews, roasts, puddings etc.
I'm sure I posted a thread about breadmaker queries when I first bought it... and got a lot of helpful advice from it. Have a search
last November.I haven't bought shop made bread since then. I've used the various mix packs and my everyday type loaf is usually using Lidl flour ( currently 69p for 1.5KG, used to be 50p for ages). However, whenever I visit the supermarket I check the home baking section for offers.
I put a dollop of mild olive oil in with the water, as it's supposed to give a longer life to the bread - and although it's best on the day , next day is OK, after that we're veering into toast territory - although it's still vaguely do-able as fresh bread. Next day it's definately toast only - but 4th day for any shop bought fresh bread is also toast. The plus point for home made bread is that there aren't any preservatives added...you know exactly what's gone in to make it.
I'm very pleased I bought my cheapy breadmaker and also just use the dough making facility when I'm going to be using the oven for other things...ie pies, stews, roasts, puddings etc.
I'm sure I posted a thread about breadmaker queries when I first bought it... and got a lot of helpful advice from it. Have a search
With regards to the 'hole' thing, I was bought a very nice Morphy Richards one with a blade that folds up to mix, then reverse and lays down flat to cook. It still leaves a hole in the loaf but not as big and not as deep so doesn't affect so many slices. Now if someone could invent one that slices too......
Making bread is less about saving money and more about flavour. You may well find you eat a lot less of it quite simply because it is more filling. I find that one piece of homemade bread takes the place of 3 slices of thick cut mass produced stuff.
I bought a bread maker about 10 years ago and still use it regularly. It cost about £70 at the time - Morphy Richards. I did a lot of experimenting with flours over the years and found that some flours really work well when mixed.
The one that I found 'best' is a mix of
2 parts barleycorn flour
1 part strong bread flour
1 part wholemeal flour (or medium semolina or oak smoked flour)
(or substitute the wholemeal with 1 part medium semolina) Also if you want it softer, use malt extract instead of sugar and throw in a sprinkling of oats.
When you make the bread, use water slightly hotter than 'handhot'. Otherwise, by the time you've added the other ingredients, it's too cold.
A loaf made with just barleycorn flour by itself will also be lovely and I've found they rise right to the top of the tin. It is a very soft loaf.
As for brands of flour, bacheldre are superb.. Also try and get your mits on some oak smoked flour (waitrose and the 'better' supermarkets sell it). That makes some seriously tasty bread that is wonderful with a decent ham and pickle sandwich.
I bought a bread maker about 10 years ago and still use it regularly. It cost about £70 at the time - Morphy Richards. I did a lot of experimenting with flours over the years and found that some flours really work well when mixed.
The one that I found 'best' is a mix of
2 parts barleycorn flour
1 part strong bread flour
1 part wholemeal flour (or medium semolina or oak smoked flour)
(or substitute the wholemeal with 1 part medium semolina) Also if you want it softer, use malt extract instead of sugar and throw in a sprinkling of oats.
When you make the bread, use water slightly hotter than 'handhot'. Otherwise, by the time you've added the other ingredients, it's too cold.
A loaf made with just barleycorn flour by itself will also be lovely and I've found they rise right to the top of the tin. It is a very soft loaf.
As for brands of flour, bacheldre are superb.. Also try and get your mits on some oak smoked flour (waitrose and the 'better' supermarkets sell it). That makes some seriously tasty bread that is wonderful with a decent ham and pickle sandwich.
What you can do to take away the sweetness is substitute the sugar for either a 'light' sugar or use instead agave syrup - literally a teaspoon. Agave doesn't taste the same as sugar yet it still provides the food for the yeast. Try that on your existing recipe first. Most supermarkets sell it.
Also substitute half your flour for stoneground flour or replace half a cup of flour with medium semolina.
Also substitute half your flour for stoneground flour or replace half a cup of flour with medium semolina.
drivin_me_nuts said:
What you can do to take away the sweetness is substitute the sugar for either a 'light' sugar or use instead agave syrup - literally a teaspoon. Agave doesn't taste the same as sugar yet it still provides the food for the yeast. Try that on your existing recipe first. Most supermarkets sell it.
Also substitute half your flour for stoneground flour or replace half a cup of flour with medium semolina.
Thanks, also our recipe calls for a teaspoon or two of dried milk, any idea what this is in for, and more importantly can I remove it as I'm sure it adds to the sweetness!Also substitute half your flour for stoneground flour or replace half a cup of flour with medium semolina.
Dried milk acts as a flour improver, finer crumb and some say a better rise. That's the simple answer.
You could use fresh milk but then you have to faff about with the amount of water, to get the liquid right, and it's not just one cup of milk, take away one cup of water.
The problem with fresh milk is an enzyme called protathione iirc, and this affects the gluten bonds and can also bugger up the rise, but can give you softer bread. With fresh milk you might have to deactivate it by scalding the milk and letting it cool. This is already done with dried milk producton process.
If you buy baker's flour improver then it's almost all dried milk anyway plus some stuff that frankly you don't want in home made bread but is in factory made stuff.
Interesting some of the comments about mixing different flours as that is what we do, though not those combinations, preferring a KISS process.
However I would say that in almost every recipe we reduce the sugar to reduce the sweetness, but also have to reduce the salt to compensate and keep the loaf reasonably light. If salt is not reduced then it's so dense you don't want to drop it on your toes.
You could use fresh milk but then you have to faff about with the amount of water, to get the liquid right, and it's not just one cup of milk, take away one cup of water.
The problem with fresh milk is an enzyme called protathione iirc, and this affects the gluten bonds and can also bugger up the rise, but can give you softer bread. With fresh milk you might have to deactivate it by scalding the milk and letting it cool. This is already done with dried milk producton process.
If you buy baker's flour improver then it's almost all dried milk anyway plus some stuff that frankly you don't want in home made bread but is in factory made stuff.
Interesting some of the comments about mixing different flours as that is what we do, though not those combinations, preferring a KISS process.
However I would say that in almost every recipe we reduce the sugar to reduce the sweetness, but also have to reduce the salt to compensate and keep the loaf reasonably light. If salt is not reduced then it's so dense you don't want to drop it on your toes.
Edited by F i F on Thursday 17th February 15:11
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