Recording a gig into a laptop - possible?
Discussion
My son and his band have their first gig coming up and I want to find a way of recording it preferably into the lap top. Is this possible, if so how?
They are a rock band (think Radiohead/Manic Street Preachers/REM/Nirvana) and being young their kit is basic, 5 or 6 good amps, pedals, and a mixer (obviously the instruments too)
How can I record this, I want to capture all of the channels 2/3 guitars, drums, keyboard and vocals.
I am thinking either
Plug a mic into laptop and stand at the back of the room - but this will pick up all of the surrounding noise
or
Plug into the mixer, if so, what sort of output would I need and would I need any software?
The set will be about 2 hours long, and they are playing mostly their own material so a recording would be useful to have for analysis and posterity
This is all new to me, so any pointers would be gratefully received
Cheers
Nick
They are a rock band (think Radiohead/Manic Street Preachers/REM/Nirvana) and being young their kit is basic, 5 or 6 good amps, pedals, and a mixer (obviously the instruments too)
How can I record this, I want to capture all of the channels 2/3 guitars, drums, keyboard and vocals.
I am thinking either
Plug a mic into laptop and stand at the back of the room - but this will pick up all of the surrounding noise
or
Plug into the mixer, if so, what sort of output would I need and would I need any software?
The set will be about 2 hours long, and they are playing mostly their own material so a recording would be useful to have for analysis and posterity
This is all new to me, so any pointers would be gratefully received
Cheers
Nick
Depends what sort of sound you want.
If you just want a recording, microphone at the back of the room will probably deliver well.
If you want good quality, then you've got to start looking at microphone placement, DA/AD converters, expensive software like logic etc and come straight out the mixer.
If you just want a recording, microphone at the back of the room will probably deliver well.
If you want good quality, then you've got to start looking at microphone placement, DA/AD converters, expensive software like logic etc and come straight out the mixer.
maniac0796 said:
Depends what sort of sound you want.
If you just want a recording, microphone at the back of the room will probably deliver well.
If you want good quality, then you've got to start looking at microphone placement, DA/AD converters, expensive software like logic etc and come straight out the mixer.
Cheap is best If you just want a recording, microphone at the back of the room will probably deliver well.
If you want good quality, then you've got to start looking at microphone placement, DA/AD converters, expensive software like logic etc and come straight out the mixer.
but I want decent quality too. Unless everything is running through the PA (i.e. all amps miked up, whole drum kit miked with overheads etc) then taking a send from the desk won't get the desired result.
I think for a first gig, just using a half decent mic and recorder will be the best option. It's REALLY hard to get a very good live recording, and the effort involved in getting the set up right might be one distraction too far for your son's first gig.
I would just stick a mic up, and then stand back, enjoy the show and be proud - it'd be a shame to miss it with your head buried in a computer!
I think for a first gig, just using a half decent mic and recorder will be the best option. It's REALLY hard to get a very good live recording, and the effort involved in getting the set up right might be one distraction too far for your son's first gig.
I would just stick a mic up, and then stand back, enjoy the show and be proud - it'd be a shame to miss it with your head buried in a computer!
Video camera (pref) with external mic will be the easiest and cheapest way to do this (if you own one).
I'd forget about using a laptop, get a dedicated recorder of some kind. Recording off the desk only works you have separate (insert) feeds to the recorder with probably sub groups and a multi-channel soundcard (8-16ch). Taking what the punters hears off the desk ends up with all vocals as that's what is mostly going via the desk.
I'd forget about using a laptop, get a dedicated recorder of some kind. Recording off the desk only works you have separate (insert) feeds to the recorder with probably sub groups and a multi-channel soundcard (8-16ch). Taking what the punters hears off the desk ends up with all vocals as that's what is mostly going via the desk.
timbob said:
Unless everything is running through the PA (i.e. all amps miked up, whole drum kit miked with overheads etc) then taking a send from the desk won't get the desired result.
I think for a first gig, just using a half decent mic and recorder will be the best option. It's REALLY hard to get a very good live recording, and the effort involved in getting the set up right might be one distraction too far for your son's first gig.
I would just stick a mic up, and then stand back, enjoy the show and be proud - it'd be a shame to miss it with your head buried in a computer!
Thanks, I think you are right. I will do it this wayI think for a first gig, just using a half decent mic and recorder will be the best option. It's REALLY hard to get a very good live recording, and the effort involved in getting the set up right might be one distraction too far for your son's first gig.
I would just stick a mic up, and then stand back, enjoy the show and be proud - it'd be a shame to miss it with your head buried in a computer!
To do it properly will need a decent usb or firewire interface (this looks good value:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alesis-Multimix16-Firewire-M... )
and some software (garageband or logic if using a mac).
With that sort of setup you can get close to comercial quality if, as has been said, it is ALL miced up.
I got all my gear from eBay and get decent results, but it takes time and practice.
Take a look at "The Blue Room" for advice ( http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?s=e8636eb67f... )
John
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Alesis-Multimix16-Firewire-M... )
and some software (garageband or logic if using a mac).
With that sort of setup you can get close to comercial quality if, as has been said, it is ALL miced up.
I got all my gear from eBay and get decent results, but it takes time and practice.
Take a look at "The Blue Room" for advice ( http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?s=e8636eb67f... )
John
As has been said, unless this is a proper venue with all the kit mic'd up, then a desk feed will only result in some instruments/vocals, and even then at all different levels.
Rather than going directly into a laptop, check out some of the dual mic handheld recorders, like from Zoom...
http://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-h1/40763
TBH, when I've done some mixing work before and I've thought a band sounds alright I've just pulled out my iphone and pointed the microphone towards a wall or somewhere indirect to the kit and had some cracking results, but then I do like to think thats also down to my skillz on the desk.
Rather than going directly into a laptop, check out some of the dual mic handheld recorders, like from Zoom...
http://www.gak.co.uk/en/zoom-h1/40763
TBH, when I've done some mixing work before and I've thought a band sounds alright I've just pulled out my iphone and pointed the microphone towards a wall or somewhere indirect to the kit and had some cracking results, but then I do like to think thats also down to my skillz on the desk.
Thanks for the advice all.
I ended up by buying a condenser mic from maplin for £20. downloaded Audacity and recorded directly into the lap top.
I have nearly 2 hours of ok recording and I can use Audacity to manipulate the recordings, divide into tracks etc
The band were pretty good, vocals need to be louder they need a better amp for vocals. But for a group of 4 15 year olds they did well, landlord of a local pub has asked them to play a set.
They played a couple of Radiohead and Manic Street Preachers covers but most of the music was their own. Feeling quite proud
I ended up by buying a condenser mic from maplin for £20. downloaded Audacity and recorded directly into the lap top.
I have nearly 2 hours of ok recording and I can use Audacity to manipulate the recordings, divide into tracks etc
The band were pretty good, vocals need to be louder they need a better amp for vocals. But for a group of 4 15 year olds they did well, landlord of a local pub has asked them to play a set.
They played a couple of Radiohead and Manic Street Preachers covers but most of the music was their own. Feeling quite proud
Edited by blueg33 on Monday 6th June 21:37
I'd suggest sorting the live sound first might be a better investment of time and money. Not hearing the vocals is either, guitars too loud, vocal PA too quiet/poorly mixed and/or poor mic technique. Quite possibly a combination of all three.
As a suggestion I'd start with turning it down, it will protect the band and punters ears. Although that does depend on how loud the drummer is! Quality over volume.
Good luck for the next gig.
As a suggestion I'd start with turning it down, it will protect the band and punters ears. Although that does depend on how loud the drummer is! Quality over volume.
Good luck for the next gig.
Bullett said:
I'd suggest sorting the live sound first might be a better investment of time and money. Not hearing the vocals is either, guitars too loud, vocal PA too quiet/poorly mixed and/or poor mic technique. Quite possibly a combination of all three.
As a suggestion I'd start with turning it down, it will protect the band and punters ears. Although that does depend on how loud the drummer is! Quality over volume.
Good luck for the next gig.
Thanks.As a suggestion I'd start with turning it down, it will protect the band and punters ears. Although that does depend on how loud the drummer is! Quality over volume.
Good luck for the next gig.
The problem with the vocals was poor positioning of the speaker, I think we need to use two speakers for the vocals and move them away from the mic as we got feedback when we got to the point of enough volume.
Its tricky as the band are all 15 years old and hence on a tight budget, but for a first attempt it was pretty good
This is going off topic of the original question, but it sounds like for the next gig you guys could do with a sound tech.
Speaker placement is very important, always put the front of house speakers in front of the mics, i.e closer to the audience than the mic. Imagine a line running from either side of mic at 90 degrees from the front where you talk into it. You want this to be the line at which the speakers cannot cross.
For small pub gigs most bands will find the drummer has to quieten down, as he is the overruling factor on the sound level. Cymbals being the worst, but if the drummer has tact, he should be alright adapting to it. A decent sound check will also help a lot, running through each instrument and getting EQs right for room, once sorted move on to levels, starting with drums and bass, guitars, then seeing how the vocals sound. If they're still drowned out, bring everything else down.
A set of active Mackies would surfice in most situations like pub gigs. Used to run events with a pair of SRM450's which would cope up to about 200 people.
Speaker placement is very important, always put the front of house speakers in front of the mics, i.e closer to the audience than the mic. Imagine a line running from either side of mic at 90 degrees from the front where you talk into it. You want this to be the line at which the speakers cannot cross.
For small pub gigs most bands will find the drummer has to quieten down, as he is the overruling factor on the sound level. Cymbals being the worst, but if the drummer has tact, he should be alright adapting to it. A decent sound check will also help a lot, running through each instrument and getting EQs right for room, once sorted move on to levels, starting with drums and bass, guitars, then seeing how the vocals sound. If they're still drowned out, bring everything else down.
A set of active Mackies would surfice in most situations like pub gigs. Used to run events with a pair of SRM450's which would cope up to about 200 people.
blueg33 said:
Its an electronic drum kit so we can turn the drummer down!
Is this going through the PA as well as the vocals? If so, and it's a basic PA get the drummer using a different amp. They dynamics of a drumkit (especially the kick)will effectively suck all the power out of any vocals or other instruments using the same system. Large and pro systems will use cross overs and other clever kit to solve this problem.blueg33 said:
You are right though, we need small speakers behind the band band the bigger ones up front.
No! you need smaller speaker in front of the band facing backwards (wedge speakers or monitors)
blueg33 said:
As for a sound tech, we are talking about 4 teenage boys, apparently they know everything!
Didn't you? (I know I did)....Bullett said:
blueg33 said:
Its an electronic drum kit so we can turn the drummer down!
Is this going through the PA as well as the vocals? If so, and it's a basic PA get the drummer using a different amp. They dynamics of a drumkit (especially the kick)will effectively suck all the power out of any vocals or other instruments using the same system. Large and pro systems will use cross overs and other clever kit to solve this problem.blueg33 said:
You are right though, we need small speakers behind the band band the bigger ones up front.
No! you need smaller speaker in front of the band facing backwards (wedge speakers or monitors)blueg33 said:
As for a sound tech, we are talking about 4 teenage boys, apparently they know everything!
Didn't you? (I know I did)....I see your point about placement of the small wedge speakers (need to buy some)
Good on the drums.
The small speakers are normally called monitors. You need to take a feed from the PA which is a different output to the one going to the main speakers which should be in front of the band facing out (at head height preferably). The monitors typically sit on the floor facing up at 45deg into the face of the singer/band.
Depending on the amp the monitor output may or may not be amplified. If it is great! if not you'll need powered wedges.
The small speakers are normally called monitors. You need to take a feed from the PA which is a different output to the one going to the main speakers which should be in front of the band facing out (at head height preferably). The monitors typically sit on the floor facing up at 45deg into the face of the singer/band.
Depending on the amp the monitor output may or may not be amplified. If it is great! if not you'll need powered wedges.
Having played in bands since I was 14, I would advise trying to avoid spending a load of money buying PA equipment, monitors etc. If possible (and it really depends where you live) I'd suggest trying to find venues for them which provide a PA. Obviously they can't play in pubs yet, but you may be able to find youth clubs etc which have their own PA, and may run their own "underage" nights.
Getting into buying PA equipment gets very expensive very quickly, and the reality of teenage bands is that the band usually lasts about as long as a relationship at that age. You might find yourself buying a PA one day, and find your son's decided to leave the band the next...or he joins another band that already has all the gear.
Getting into buying PA equipment gets very expensive very quickly, and the reality of teenage bands is that the band usually lasts about as long as a relationship at that age. You might find yourself buying a PA one day, and find your son's decided to leave the band the next...or he joins another band that already has all the gear.
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