What does an orchestra conductor actually add?
Discussion
Just watching the live War of the Worlds someone posted up (fantastic!)
And it made me think the thing I always think when I see an orchestra conductor conducting. Why?
All the musicians have the music, no doubt it tells them the bits they should be playing, so why do they need some ejit with a baton waving frantically at them?
Actors seem to be able to figure out when it's their turn to speak or be quiet, so why not musicians?
I bet if you could pull a lever and make that conductor disappear they'd still be able to play it the same.
And it made me think the thing I always think when I see an orchestra conductor conducting. Why?
All the musicians have the music, no doubt it tells them the bits they should be playing, so why do they need some ejit with a baton waving frantically at them?
Actors seem to be able to figure out when it's their turn to speak or be quiet, so why not musicians?
I bet if you could pull a lever and make that conductor disappear they'd still be able to play it the same.
The conductor does a lot more than turn up on the night and look like he's having a fit. Granted, at a performance he's more for show than anything else.
The rest of the time, it's up to him how the music is interpreted. This is why different orchestras will interpret things differently to each other.
If you want to go with the acting analogy, imagine him as the director.
The rest of the time, it's up to him how the music is interpreted. This is why different orchestras will interpret things differently to each other.
If you want to go with the acting analogy, imagine him as the director.
Actually they would not.
The leader would deputise but the fact is that Orchestra's require direction for best results.
A full concert orchestra definitely performs better with a good conductor. The musicians are not machines. Good conductors draw out great performances.
Not unlike Head Teachers with schools although the analogy is not perfect.
The leader would deputise but the fact is that Orchestra's require direction for best results.
A full concert orchestra definitely performs better with a good conductor. The musicians are not machines. Good conductors draw out great performances.
Not unlike Head Teachers with schools although the analogy is not perfect.
Ari said:
I bet if you could pull a lever and make that conductor disappear they'd still be able to play it the same.
A professional orchestra (especially a British one) could pretty much instantly play anything you put in front of them. They do not need a conductor to show them how to play in time. The thing with music is that although it is written down, there is far more to it than which notes come where. Allegro means fast, but how fast is that? Largo means very slowly, but how slowly? How loud should a fortissimo be? How quiet should a pianissimo be? How quickly do things get faster when there is an accelerando?These are all things which are a matter of interpretation, and most musical scores are not that specific. It has to be up to one person to decide what it actually means, and that is the conductors job. In addition, he is a focal point for the orchestra who sets the mood and style of the playing. The conductor can be the difference between an acceptable performance and one that has the audience on its feet at the end.
Of course if you ask a brass player, he is there only to tell them to play quieter.
Listen to these recordings of the same piece with different conductors and see if you can see where the differences are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44LqDSSdpew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogJFXqYEYd8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUsxNcghy7I
If the conductor wasn't there then the performance would not be the same. Yes everyone knows what notes they should be playing but it's the conductors job to keep everyone in time and makes sure the sound is balanced properly.
Think of it this way. It's the equivalent of Rock/Pop bands having a click track to keep them in time and a sound engineer to make sure all the instruments are balanced properly.
With an orchestra easily having over 100 people then they all need a central reference point. Every member will be continually watching the conductor for his/her instruction.
Another thing to realise is that if you took the same piece of music with the same musicians and changed the conductor it would also sound different. How different would depend on each conductors interpretation of the music.
Note that you don't get absolute volumes in music normally just "very quiet, quiet, loud, very loud" and with orchestral music you don't always get absolute speeds. It is quite common to see phrases like "a bit quicker". Oh and these instructions are normally in Italian
Think of it this way. It's the equivalent of Rock/Pop bands having a click track to keep them in time and a sound engineer to make sure all the instruments are balanced properly.
With an orchestra easily having over 100 people then they all need a central reference point. Every member will be continually watching the conductor for his/her instruction.
Another thing to realise is that if you took the same piece of music with the same musicians and changed the conductor it would also sound different. How different would depend on each conductors interpretation of the music.
Note that you don't get absolute volumes in music normally just "very quiet, quiet, loud, very loud" and with orchestral music you don't always get absolute speeds. It is quite common to see phrases like "a bit quicker". Oh and these instructions are normally in Italian
Ari said:
Ok, the director bit, fine, I can see that.
But you don't go to a play and have some bod with a stick pointing at different actors going "right, you speak next, you speak a bit quicker", etc.
That's not what a conductor does.But you don't go to a play and have some bod with a stick pointing at different actors going "right, you speak next, you speak a bit quicker", etc.
It's up to him how the music is interpreted. There's an awful lot more to playing an instrument that physically being able to play what's on the music infront of you.
It's up to the conductor to make sure the orchestra are playing things correctly, to make sure dynamics as how he envisaged them, to make sure phrases are being started and finished together without 'stragglers'.
Granted any orchestra worth it's salt will be pretty damned good - but the conductor makes the performance. You'd be surprised how different the same piece of music can sound.
cornet said:
If the conductor wasn't there then the performance would not be the same. Yes everyone knows what notes they should be playing but it's the conductors job to keep everyone in time and makes sure the sound is balanced properly.
Think of it this way. It's the equivalent of Rock/Pop bands having a click track to keep them in time and a sound engineer to make sure all the instruments are balanced properly.
With an orchestra easily having over 100 people then they all need a central reference point. Every member will be continually watching the conductor for his/her instruction.
Another thing to realise is that if you took the same piece of music with the same musicians and changed the conductor it would also sound different. How different would depend on each conductors interpretation of the music.
Note that you don't get absolute volumes in music normally just "very quiet, quiet, loud, very loud" and with orchestral music you don't always get absolute speeds. It is quite common to see phrases like "a bit quicker". Oh and these instructions are normally in Italian
This. But you said it better!Think of it this way. It's the equivalent of Rock/Pop bands having a click track to keep them in time and a sound engineer to make sure all the instruments are balanced properly.
With an orchestra easily having over 100 people then they all need a central reference point. Every member will be continually watching the conductor for his/her instruction.
Another thing to realise is that if you took the same piece of music with the same musicians and changed the conductor it would also sound different. How different would depend on each conductors interpretation of the music.
Note that you don't get absolute volumes in music normally just "very quiet, quiet, loud, very loud" and with orchestral music you don't always get absolute speeds. It is quite common to see phrases like "a bit quicker". Oh and these instructions are normally in Italian
The Portsmouth Sinfonia [sic] chose their conductor because "He looked like a conductor" and added "He was more of a mime artist really".
William Tell - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLsFGgfvx8o
(Brian Eno on clarinet)
William Tell - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLsFGgfvx8o
(Brian Eno on clarinet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzkm-kbx2T4
Its not actually too far from the truth, though more than slightly over the top.
start from 1:18
Its not actually too far from the truth, though more than slightly over the top.
start from 1:18
Edited by WetPaint on Monday 19th September 21:18
Agree with the above.
The musicians all have the music in front of them, but the written music does not tell them everything. For example the music may specify "fast" ("presto"), "slow" ("lento"), "quiet" ("piano"), "getting louder" ("crescendo") but it probably won't specify how fast, how slow etc. That's the conductor's job; to decide on the interpretation of the instructions (every conductor's interpretation may be different) and to convey that interpretation via hand signals.
Also, all the players need to be synchronised, so that they play their notes at the same time. That's the conductor's job; to provide hand signals that the players can synchronise to. The players have limited sight of each other but they can all see the conductor.
As others have said, he's like the director of a play. You could just sit down with your mates and read through the script - but that won't in itself make a performance. You need direction from someone who can imagine the play as a whole.
Or think of a building site, with the workers (orchestra members) and a foreman (conductor). The workers could just turn up and do their individual tasks as instructed, but the job may end up a mess. They need high level direction from someone who understands what the entire job is supposed to look like and how the different tasks depend on each other.
In a professional concert performance the conductor typically gets paid as much as the rest of the orchestra put together.
The musicians all have the music in front of them, but the written music does not tell them everything. For example the music may specify "fast" ("presto"), "slow" ("lento"), "quiet" ("piano"), "getting louder" ("crescendo") but it probably won't specify how fast, how slow etc. That's the conductor's job; to decide on the interpretation of the instructions (every conductor's interpretation may be different) and to convey that interpretation via hand signals.
Also, all the players need to be synchronised, so that they play their notes at the same time. That's the conductor's job; to provide hand signals that the players can synchronise to. The players have limited sight of each other but they can all see the conductor.
As others have said, he's like the director of a play. You could just sit down with your mates and read through the script - but that won't in itself make a performance. You need direction from someone who can imagine the play as a whole.
Or think of a building site, with the workers (orchestra members) and a foreman (conductor). The workers could just turn up and do their individual tasks as instructed, but the job may end up a mess. They need high level direction from someone who understands what the entire job is supposed to look like and how the different tasks depend on each other.
In a professional concert performance the conductor typically gets paid as much as the rest of the orchestra put together.
AmitG said:
Also, all the players need to be synchronised, so that they play their notes at the same time. That's the conductor's job; to provide hand signals that the players can synchronise to. The players have limited sight of each other but they can all see the conductor.
Although they do do it, keeping time comes way down the list. A decent orchestra will be able to do it metronomically without any the conductor beating at all. I have played in orchestras many times with conductors who are pretty poor at keeping a regular beat and some don't bother at all, yet there has been absolutely no problem remaining in tempo. If direction is not forthcoming, players look to their head of section or leader to provide it but it's an almost automatic thing. It's part of the reason why playing in a good orchestra is one of the most satisfying things possible to do - there are very few other activities that require 100+ people to be so in tune (no pun intended) with each other at the same time.Being a conductor must be easy - even a 3 year old can do it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0REJ-lCGiKU
[edit]
The same boy, now 4 years old conducting the Kremlin Chamber Orchestra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ILOqRkg4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0REJ-lCGiKU
[edit]
The same boy, now 4 years old conducting the Kremlin Chamber Orchestra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ILOqRkg4U
Edited by timbob on Tuesday 20th September 19:42
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