Getting started as a laptop DJ
Discussion
I spend a large amount of my time listening to trance, purely for pleasure, and I've realised that it would be great to combine listening with having some kind of active involvement, so I wondered about learning to mix. Needless to say, I have some questions...
Thanks!
- I'm aware of software like Traktor - is this the best one to use or are there others which are more favoured? Obviously it needs to be stable and reliable if I ever reach the point of DJing in front of a crowd.
- What is a good source of tuition for DJing/mixing? There are a million and one self-appointed experts on the internet all purporting to be able to teach DJing skills, but many of them are utterly hopeless. Can anyone point me to some genuinely useful YouTube tutorials or recommend any good DVDs or books?
- If you put together a mix and publish it as a podcast or play a live set, do you need to get a PRS license? I'm guessing you have to establish some kind of right to play other people's music.
Thanks!
Edited by MitchT on Saturday 30th June 12:08
MitchT said:
I spend a large amount of my time listening to trance, purely for pleasure, and I've realised that it would be great to combine listening with having some kind of active involvement, so I wondered about learning to mix. Needless to say, I have some questions...
Thanks!
A good book is how to DJ properly (ISBN 0-593-04966-7).- I'm aware of software like Traktor - is this the best one to use or are there others which are more favoured? Obviously it needs to be stable and reliable if I ever reach the point of DJing in front of a crowd.
- What is a good source of tuition for DJing/mixing? There are a million and one self-appointed experts on the internet all purporting to be able to teach DJing skills, but many of them are utterly hopeless. Can anyone point me to some genuinely useful YouTube tutorials or recommend any good DVDs or books?
- If you put together a mix and publish it as a podcast or play a live set, do you need to get a PRS license? I'm guessing you have to establish some kind of right to play other people's music.
Thanks!
Edited by MitchT on Saturday 30th June 12:08
Don't even think about DJ'ing to a crowd now. Seriously. There are so many better ways to waste your hopes and dreams. There are literally a million DJ's in the world, and most of them are s
te. You really need something special to make it, or be very, very lucky. If you want gigs, concentrate on production. But there is no point doing that until you can DJ.
Personally I leant on vinyl (and still play with it today - occasionally). This taught me far more than a PC ever could. A PC will beatmatch for you - the essential ability of a DJ.
If you want to carry on, the you'll need a Macbook. Run Ableton, Traktor or whatever, with a controller. A (real) DJ mate uses the Pioneer DDJ S1 and loves it.
As for the PRS, it's not a problem. Podcasts - have a chat with Big Dub on here. I personally use my own site and upload from there. Don1.
To close I'd say if you love your music, start as a bedroom DJ without spending a lot of money. if you find out that you are really enjoying it, then upgrade. Go clubbing, get in with the promotors. Hand out free CD's at the clubs - getting a groundswell of support can help you get gigs. Good luck, and if you want any honest feedback, please feel free to ask.
Don1 - resume includes playing to 60,000 on a beach in Thailand, multiple major London clubs, Ibiza private parties for the last decade, Hungary, Maldives....
Don1 said:
A good book is how to DJ properly (ISBN 0-593-04966-7).
Agreed - it's a fantastic book, which just happened to be released the same month I got my first set of decks and really helped me along...Most of 'learning how to mix' has to be done using your ears, but what the above achieves is giving a real insight into what separates the men from the boys in terms of tune selection, building a collection, warming a room up, recognising and pacing the 'energy level' of the crowd etc. etc. - there's a lot more to it than being able to mix the two biggest tunes of the moment together!
Thanks guys. I already have a MacBook Pro and spend some of my time cobbling together my own trance tracks in Logic Pro... pretty badly, it has to be said! My main problem where producing tracks is concerned is that I live in a tiny rented house so I can't carry out work on the property to get the acoustics and soundprooing right, so everything has to be done 'quietly', hence why my tracks always end up sounding pretty naff. That said Don, you used one of my tracks some time ago in one of your mixes 
I am very interested in getting into the DJing side, though if there was a way to get my producing up to scratch too it would be great. I could do with finding a local studio with a resident Logic Pro expert where I can take my laptop and get my tracks sounding perfect.
I am very interested in getting into the DJing side, though if there was a way to get my producing up to scratch too it would be great. I could do with finding a local studio with a resident Logic Pro expert where I can take my laptop and get my tracks sounding perfect.
MitchT said:
Thanks guys. I already have a MacBook Pro and spend some of my time cobbling together my own trance tracks in Logic Pro... pretty badly, it has to be said! My main problem where producing tracks is concerned is that I live in a tiny rented house so I can't carry out work on the property to get the acoustics and soundprooing right, so everything has to be done 'quietly', hence why my tracks always end up sounding pretty naff. That said Don, you used one of my tracks some time ago in one of your mixes
I am very interested in getting into the DJing side, though if there was a way to get my producing up to scratch too it would be great. I could do with finding a local studio with a resident Logic Pro expert where I can take my laptop and get my tracks sounding perfect.
Ah! You! Well, in that case I take back the thoughts about not being able to structure a track as you don't know the music.I am very interested in getting into the DJing side, though if there was a way to get my producing up to scratch too it would be great. I could do with finding a local studio with a resident Logic Pro expert where I can take my laptop and get my tracks sounding perfect.
OK, in that case, practice, practice and practice. Keep on producing (you've got some great ideas), and things will come.
Hi Don!
I'm nearly 38 years old now but I've been tinkering with dance music since I was about 12! Most of what I've ever done was pure inspiration coming in a flood and not being particularly well thought out or well executed. In recent times my interest in dance music has led me to question how it's done and reach a greater clarity of thought. I'm currently embarking on a process of reproducing all of my tracks in a far more cohesive and relevant way as a result.
I'm absolutely sure that someone who has experience of DJing will make a greater producer as they will truly understand what makes a track work - this is one of the reasons that I'm interested in getting into DJing. The "In The Studio With The Thrillseekers" series of videos by Steve Helstrip have been hugely helpful - the process of re-working my tracks were triggered by watching these, particularly the Creating a DJ-Friendly Intro episode. Incidentally, I re-worked the track I sent you previously during a six month spell living in a detached house last year - it sounds a million times better for having been mixed in an environment where I wasn't restricted to monitoring quietly, though at that time I still wasn't 100% up on creating a DJ-friendly intro, so it needs a bit more work.
BTW, I'm still listening to, and loving, your mixes. Hopefully I'll have something good to contribute to one of them soon!
I'm nearly 38 years old now but I've been tinkering with dance music since I was about 12! Most of what I've ever done was pure inspiration coming in a flood and not being particularly well thought out or well executed. In recent times my interest in dance music has led me to question how it's done and reach a greater clarity of thought. I'm currently embarking on a process of reproducing all of my tracks in a far more cohesive and relevant way as a result.
I'm absolutely sure that someone who has experience of DJing will make a greater producer as they will truly understand what makes a track work - this is one of the reasons that I'm interested in getting into DJing. The "In The Studio With The Thrillseekers" series of videos by Steve Helstrip have been hugely helpful - the process of re-working my tracks were triggered by watching these, particularly the Creating a DJ-Friendly Intro episode. Incidentally, I re-worked the track I sent you previously during a six month spell living in a detached house last year - it sounds a million times better for having been mixed in an environment where I wasn't restricted to monitoring quietly, though at that time I still wasn't 100% up on creating a DJ-friendly intro, so it needs a bit more work.
BTW, I'm still listening to, and loving, your mixes. Hopefully I'll have something good to contribute to one of them soon!
I don't like trance, but I have DJ'ed a couple of indie nights, one using nothing but 7" singles. Quite hard work that; 30 records an hour! Anyway, doing an indie disco you don't often bother with beat matching, but you do always learn about how to string a set together, and play what the crowd is looking for at the right time. With the ability to auto beatmatch, that's probably the biggest thing to learn.
Don1 said:
A good book is how to DJ properly (ISBN 0-593-04966-7).
^^^This most definately 
I got this book when I first started tinkering with DJ-ing, and of all the books/atricles I've read since I can't think of any that can beat this. Full of useful information, really well explained, and a damn fun read to boot.
The other thing Don touched upon- beatmatching. One of the downsides to learning via laptop DJing with software is the shortcuts available, mainly the sync feature & beat-gridded waveforms. Absolutely nothing wrong with using these- it will allow you to string basic mixes together much quicker, but doing this will likely sidetrack you from learning the core principles i.e beatmatching/phrasematching. Obviously, this may or may not be an issue depending what your goals are, and you can always stick a bit of paper over the visual aids & turn the sync feature off.
I learned on a pair of crappy CD decks (simple cd players with a pitch control and nothing else) that were very out-dated when I bought them second-hand 11 years ago, a single vinyl turntable, an an old mixer with no EQ's. It was difficult, but well worth the effort.
If working on a laptop I would definately go down the controller route, this will at least allow you to get use to many of the equipment features that are common amongst the different formats. The Pioneer controller is an excellent shout, I'd also check out Digital DJ Tips website for a wealth of info, including detailed reviews of the different controllers available for every budget.
If you're coming at it as someone who loves the music and is already dabbling with production I'd say you are pretty well set. As Don also said, where DJ-ing is now more accessible than ever, it has never been more difficult to get yourself noticed. I've never done it as anything other than a hobby, aside from house-parties, and probably never will- but I find it one of the single most rewarding things in my life!
I should probably point out at that I am certainly no expert, and have only just started putting some of my mixes online (a classic trance mix will be going up today!), but I do spend a vast amount of my time listening to mixes, checking out equipment etc, so I'll happily try and answer any questions!
Good luck!
I'd echo the start basic/cheap route to see if you like it. Like most "hobbies" its easy to start blowing big money only to find out its actually hard work and not always fun. I say that in the sense its a bit like making a presentation at work. Its all very well when things are going well and you have a crowd who are receptive to what you are doing. Now remember that presentation where your laptop crashes, the OHP won't sync up, the investor starts giving you a hard time etc. Djing can be a lot like that. If you come through a real stty gig and still want to do it then you're a dj in the making.
I'm a bit different to most of the other posters. I've kind of grown into djing over the years. Watching my older cousins rapping and breakdancing I absorbed the hip hop culture and at a young age started to scratch my dad's records on his hi-fi. He was so impressed I got the slipper and then after still going back to try again he bought me two turntable seperates (no pitch) from a carboot and one of those Realistic mixers with the threat/promise if I touched his hi-fi one more time I'd know about it lol. It's amazing how inventive you can get with a primitive set up. I tried different materials in between the platter and the record to make them spin better. I learnt about hand/pressure techniques as a hi-fi turntable was never meant to be used as a scratch tool. I learnt about record care. Sounds. BPM although I didn't realise this till much later, at the time it was simply records that would mix if I held the spindle or nudged slightly and ones that would never mix. I think this is an important element alot of new DJs miss. Just because your laptop can time stretch a tune to fit doesn't mean it should be time stretched to fit. I hear some mixes in the club and I think that's a 91bpm record mixed in with a 106bpm record and it sounds awful. Rules are meant to be broken but its about the sound first and foremost.
These days I use a set of Technics 1210s, a Rane 57 Mixer and Serato via my Macbook. I've gotten into a few of the functions on Serato. Cue points, instant doubles and the sampler function but for the most part I still DJ the same way I would if I was rocking with vinyl.
So in summary. Start cheap learn your equipment and see if you like it.
Oh and get a mate who's brutally honest. My mate who was a rapper was an absolute ahole when it came to checking beats I'd sent him. But it meant that when I did get something just right it worked. When I first started producing alot of rappers would say "this is amazing" but would not want to rap to it. As an entertainer you don't need YES men in your camp.
tty gig and still want to do it then you're a dj in the making. I'm a bit different to most of the other posters. I've kind of grown into djing over the years. Watching my older cousins rapping and breakdancing I absorbed the hip hop culture and at a young age started to scratch my dad's records on his hi-fi. He was so impressed I got the slipper and then after still going back to try again he bought me two turntable seperates (no pitch) from a carboot and one of those Realistic mixers with the threat/promise if I touched his hi-fi one more time I'd know about it lol. It's amazing how inventive you can get with a primitive set up. I tried different materials in between the platter and the record to make them spin better. I learnt about hand/pressure techniques as a hi-fi turntable was never meant to be used as a scratch tool. I learnt about record care. Sounds. BPM although I didn't realise this till much later, at the time it was simply records that would mix if I held the spindle or nudged slightly and ones that would never mix. I think this is an important element alot of new DJs miss. Just because your laptop can time stretch a tune to fit doesn't mean it should be time stretched to fit. I hear some mixes in the club and I think that's a 91bpm record mixed in with a 106bpm record and it sounds awful. Rules are meant to be broken but its about the sound first and foremost.
These days I use a set of Technics 1210s, a Rane 57 Mixer and Serato via my Macbook. I've gotten into a few of the functions on Serato. Cue points, instant doubles and the sampler function but for the most part I still DJ the same way I would if I was rocking with vinyl.
So in summary. Start cheap learn your equipment and see if you like it.
Oh and get a mate who's brutally honest. My mate who was a rapper was an absolute a
hole when it came to checking beats I'd sent him. But it meant that when I did get something just right it worked. When I first started producing alot of rappers would say "this is amazing" but would not want to rap to it. As an entertainer you don't need YES men in your camp. 
Look into and learn to mix in key (also called harmonic mixing or key mixing), this will be especially important for melodic lead content such as trance. Basically, each track is written in a certain key and only certain keys will sound good in unison. If you mix two tracks with clashing keys it'll more often than not sound terrible. A vast majority of DJ's dont understand the concept and as a result there are hoards of shocking sounding mixes out there of all genres.
DJing with Traktor or Serato etc is so easy these days -pick a cue point, drop the track and hit beat match. The skill is in picking tracks that go well together and bringing in FX, double dropping and generally being more creative.
Vinyl and vinyl emulation is imho pointless these days, what with the cost and availability of digital music.
This is all my experience of 10 years of DJing - drum n bass
Just a plug - you can hear my mixes and concept of harmonic mixing on my soundcloud page:
www.soundcloud.com/benjamin-sparks
DJing with Traktor or Serato etc is so easy these days -pick a cue point, drop the track and hit beat match. The skill is in picking tracks that go well together and bringing in FX, double dropping and generally being more creative.
Vinyl and vinyl emulation is imho pointless these days, what with the cost and availability of digital music.
This is all my experience of 10 years of DJing - drum n bass
Just a plug - you can hear my mixes and concept of harmonic mixing on my soundcloud page:
www.soundcloud.com/benjamin-sparks
Edited by sparks85 on Wednesday 18th July 12:29
sparks85 said:
Vinyl and vinyl emulation is imho pointless these days, what with the cost and availability of digital music.
Except for those of us who find mixing with vinyl infinitely more fun! Edited by sparks85 on Wednesday 18th July 12:29
[openscanofworms]
On a more serious note, even though 90% of my music is digital (5% cd, 5% vinyl), I quickly tired of looking at a laptop while DJing so it had to go. I just use CDs/memory sticks plugged into my CDJs, and vinyl on the turntables.
I've spent a lot of time recently watching videos from the big trance festivals (Gatecrasher, Creamfields, etc) from the late 90s/early 2000s and the DJs seem to be so much more engaged with the crowd, none of the pouring over laptops that seems to have become a defining characteristic of a lot of nights I've been to recently. Even if the mixing didn't sound anywhere near as 'clinical'!
My mate has currently got his two Vestax turntables set up at mine with a stack load of classic trance vinyl and I have to admit I've not switched my CDJs on once in that time, and I'm now planning on doing Part-2 of the Classic Trance mix I did last week purely on vinyl.
I've always had a smallish vinyl collection myself but never this much to be able to mix for hours on end- and therein lies the main problem you highlighted, availability & cost of music on vinyl
Edited to add: I love a bit of D&B so I shall most definately be checking out your soundcloud page
I've not used Traktor in years but with Serato they don't offer a beat matching feature (well I've not upgraded in a while. Apologies if I'm using old info). Serato can analyse your tunes and tell you the BPM (not always accurate but 99% for me) and you can set your own cue points. So in a way you're right it is a piece of piss that anyone should be able to knock out a basic beat matched mix. That in mind you can tell people who don't have the concept of mixing in them as even with these tools they still manage to fk up a simple 8 bar mix. Personal pet hate. People mixing rap vocals over rap vocals.
I got Serato because it was getting near on impossible to stay current with tunes. DJs with far less skill were playing songs I'd have to wait months for. I'd much prefer to be playing vinyl but Serato is the next best thing for me. Stable, near on in sound replication and in vinyl (true sense not coded) emulation.
k up a simple 8 bar mix. Personal pet hate. People mixing rap vocals over rap vocals. I got Serato because it was getting near on impossible to stay current with tunes. DJs with far less skill were playing songs I'd have to wait months for. I'd much prefer to be playing vinyl but Serato is the next best thing for me. Stable, near on in sound replication and in vinyl (true sense not coded) emulation.
Squirrelofwoe said:
Except for those of us who find mixing with vinyl infinitely more fun!
[openscanofworms]
Oh don't get me wrong - I learnt with vinyl, I love the stuff, it is more fun to mix, more tactile, and more of a spectacle for a crowd. Its also a skill I'm sure 95% of digital DJ's couldnt pick up easily.[openscanofworms]
But vinyl now works out around £7 a single minimum, the second hand market is far more expensive, smaller labels are digital only. With digital you don't have to focus on the task of keeping tracks in time and can concentrate on mixing faster, double drops, decent EQing, FX etc etc The big one for me however is being able to quickly cue up new tracks and experiment with how tracks sound together - vinyl is pain in the arse for this. Also vinyl changes key as you pitch up or down, whereas Traktor lets you fix the key.
I'd always recommend digital for anyone starting nowadays but it doesnt mean it's anything like vinyl mixing!!
sparks85 said:
A lot sense
Agreed totally.OT but on the subject of the Master Tempo feature, I've always found this more trouble than it's worth. On Traktor (I only had LE) whenever it was engaged I found it would cause a slight (but constant) 'wobble' up and down in the bpm that played havoc during a mix.
I've sinced moved on to CDJ900s and they do exactly the same (whether using CDs or usb) and the Pioneer forums seem to be well aware of this too (across all models). Another Traktor user I know has also mentioned it and doesn't use Master Tempo because of it. Given that I never usually pitch anything beyond about 3% it's not a problem I just do without but I'd be interested if anyone else had noticed this.
Appologies for minor thread hijack.
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