It feels as if Rock got magically old in a nanosecond..
Discussion
I've never really thought much about the ageing of the entire contingent from the sixties and seventies, and somewhere in my mind I froze them with their music, not following much how they all got old. Noticed a pic of Jon Lord from Deep Purple who has sadly died, but seeing 70ish year old Bob Dylan and Paul McCartney, the 50th anniversary for the Rolling Stones and so on made me realize just how long ago all this stuff was, yet it seems quite recent to me in memory. The music scene is so fragmented now that its difficult to imagine that there will be the same amazing longevity of music geezers as we have today....but maybe I'm just too old to understand that........
I know what you mean. When we were at school bands like Deep Purple were in their prime but we didn't recognise that we were hearing a genre that was barely 5 years old (arguably). You can argue about when rock as opposed to blues/pop started but lets say 1966 and it was over as a mainstream style by 1990 although obviously bands like Kasabian are still recognisably rock.
My children think a lot of it is crap.
My children think a lot of it is crap.
To me (26yo) Dylan, Macca, Tom Petty, Pink Floyd etc are all timeless. I'm of the opinion you can't put an age category on good music.
The problem is media outlets like the X-Factor drill it into the younger generation that music is throwaway and that there needs to be a new star every year. I feel blessed that I was taught differently.
I know what you mean about seeing the "originals" fade away, but as Bob Dylan said, "He not bust being born is busy dying"
The problem is media outlets like the X-Factor drill it into the younger generation that music is throwaway and that there needs to be a new star every year. I feel blessed that I was taught differently.
I know what you mean about seeing the "originals" fade away, but as Bob Dylan said, "He not bust being born is busy dying"
I think the thing that bothers me is that the established festival headliners such as AC/DC, Maiden, Sabbath & even Metallica (though not quite as old) have all been around for a very long time, and I don't see many (any?) bands of that size/stature waiting in the wings to take over.
Of course, there are younger bands that do headline slots, but usually only because the "big boys" are otherwise engaged. For example, Slipknot have headlined Download but if Metallica are available they automatically take the headline slot, and Slipknot drop down to the support slot.
I'm struggling to think of many bands less than 10 years old that could potentially be the next AC/DC or Sabbath, and still be big crowd-pullers in 30 years time.
And am I the only one who, when watching the likes of Lemmy, Ozzy & Co, wonders whether I'm seeing them for the last time? Much as I'd like them to, they can't go on forever (well, except Lemmy perhaps, as he appears to be immortal).
Of course, there are younger bands that do headline slots, but usually only because the "big boys" are otherwise engaged. For example, Slipknot have headlined Download but if Metallica are available they automatically take the headline slot, and Slipknot drop down to the support slot.
I'm struggling to think of many bands less than 10 years old that could potentially be the next AC/DC or Sabbath, and still be big crowd-pullers in 30 years time.
And am I the only one who, when watching the likes of Lemmy, Ozzy & Co, wonders whether I'm seeing them for the last time? Much as I'd like them to, they can't go on forever (well, except Lemmy perhaps, as he appears to be immortal).
S7Paul said:
I think the thing that bothers me is that the established festival headliners such as AC/DC, Maiden, Sabbath & even Metallica (though not quite as old) have all been around for a very long time, and I don't see many (any?) bands of that size/stature waiting in the wings to take over.
Of course, there are younger bands that do headline slots, but usually only because the "big boys" are otherwise engaged. For example, Slipknot have headlined Download but if Metallica are available they automatically take the headline slot, and Slipknot drop down to the support slot.
I'm struggling to think of many bands less than 10 years old that could potentially be the next AC/DC or Sabbath, and still be big crowd-pullers in 30 years time.
And am I the only one who, when watching the likes of Lemmy, Ozzy & Co, wonders whether I'm seeing them for the last time? Much as I'd like them to, they can't go on forever (well, except Lemmy perhaps, as he appears to be immortal).
Agreed. Here and there I have attended corporate (!) events where they had boxes for people like the Stones ad it seems completely bonkers to me. I saw them in the sixties and I was a kid. There are some people I have seen who have aged amazingly....Van Morrison, Leonard Cohen, Clapton, JJ Cale and so on, but by and large I don't bother and I just don;t have the youth to sit in small clubs and venues to hear the next wave. I think its just ageOf course, there are younger bands that do headline slots, but usually only because the "big boys" are otherwise engaged. For example, Slipknot have headlined Download but if Metallica are available they automatically take the headline slot, and Slipknot drop down to the support slot.
I'm struggling to think of many bands less than 10 years old that could potentially be the next AC/DC or Sabbath, and still be big crowd-pullers in 30 years time.
And am I the only one who, when watching the likes of Lemmy, Ozzy & Co, wonders whether I'm seeing them for the last time? Much as I'd like them to, they can't go on forever (well, except Lemmy perhaps, as he appears to be immortal).
As a mid twenty year old floyd fan, it hit me quite hard when Rick Wright died, knowing that I would never get to see Floyd as a whole (minus Syd of course) perform live.
There are some good bands now, but none that can pull my emotions in the way that bands like the Beatles and pink floyd do. The closest I can think of now is radiohead, but even then there is a kind of detachment compared. Nothing seems quite as epic. Perhaps it is, for me, being able to follow a documented journey from young, eager musicians to legends of music of these people and the fragility and momentary nature of life that pervades through it, that makes these groups so endearing. Who knows.
There are some good bands now, but none that can pull my emotions in the way that bands like the Beatles and pink floyd do. The closest I can think of now is radiohead, but even then there is a kind of detachment compared. Nothing seems quite as epic. Perhaps it is, for me, being able to follow a documented journey from young, eager musicians to legends of music of these people and the fragility and momentary nature of life that pervades through it, that makes these groups so endearing. Who knows.
celticpilgrim said:
that's my point, while there are still rock/metal bands around, are we ever going to see another Sabbath, Priest or Maiden? interms of songs or musicianship
proper worried, me......
Part of it is how we all consumed music...no internet, concentrated media exposure, bought all our music on discs and so on. There were great barriers to entry and few made it, but then they had a huge audience. proper worried, me......
Now, many make it for smaller, more specialized audiences.
There are some bands about that currently have the ability to go the distance so to speak. Muse for instance, cold play, radio head, oasis (I know some have split but reformation is easier now days and its a lucrative thing to do).
I love my rock (29yrs old) I'mm generally poor with modern bands names but I have always listened to the vinyl my dad gave me when he replaced the lot to CD, and I pick up stuff in charity shops if I spot it. Got most of Zeppelin, Dire straits, ZZ Top, Kinks, Who, Squeeze (favorite), T Rex, Rolling Stones, Queen, Derek and Clive,Deep purple, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Cash, Dean Martin, Frank, Bee Gees.
I suppose nearly 150 records. The prices are going up too I'v be informed. I got a 4 pack double sided Elvis compliation (47 songs) for £1 about 5 years ago, and it was near mint condition (both sleeve and records). My nephew has started his own collection and advised me £8-10 would be the current asking price in a charity shop.
I have a pretty decent record player/music center (Rotel. so 1970's!!!), inherited from my grand mothers estate/house...
I love my rock (29yrs old) I'mm generally poor with modern bands names but I have always listened to the vinyl my dad gave me when he replaced the lot to CD, and I pick up stuff in charity shops if I spot it. Got most of Zeppelin, Dire straits, ZZ Top, Kinks, Who, Squeeze (favorite), T Rex, Rolling Stones, Queen, Derek and Clive,Deep purple, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Cash, Dean Martin, Frank, Bee Gees.
I suppose nearly 150 records. The prices are going up too I'v be informed. I got a 4 pack double sided Elvis compliation (47 songs) for £1 about 5 years ago, and it was near mint condition (both sleeve and records). My nephew has started his own collection and advised me £8-10 would be the current asking price in a charity shop.
I have a pretty decent record player/music center (Rotel. so 1970's!!!), inherited from my grand mothers estate/house...
GingerWizard said:
There are some bands about that currently have the ability to go the distance so to speak. Muse for instance, cold play, radio head, oasis (I know some have split but reformation is easier now days and its a lucrative thing to do).
I love my rock (29yrs old) I'mm generally poor with modern bands names but I have always listened to the vinyl my dad gave me when he replaced the lot to CD, and I pick up stuff in charity shops if I spot it. Got most of Zeppelin, Dire straits, ZZ Top, Kinks, Who, Squeeze (favorite), T Rex, Rolling Stones, Queen, Derek and Clive,Deep purple, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Cash, Dean Martin, Frank, Bee Gees.
I suppose nearly 150 records. The prices are going up too I'v be informed. I got a 4 pack double sided Elvis compliation (47 songs) for £1 about 5 years ago, and it was near mint condition (both sleeve and records). My nephew has started his own collection and advised me £8-10 would be the current asking price in a charity shop.
I have a pretty decent record player/music center (Rotel. so 1970's!!!), inherited from my grand mothers estate/house...
When I was 25 or so I also discovered stuff from the past. and did the whole Robert Johnson/Ragtime;/Chicago Blues stuff because it really enriched my understanding of the past and at your age, my then-present is your past, of course. You make the very good point that there is new music that has potential to last, and I have no doubt that you are right. Its just less visible to geriatrics like me at 63>>>>I love my rock (29yrs old) I'mm generally poor with modern bands names but I have always listened to the vinyl my dad gave me when he replaced the lot to CD, and I pick up stuff in charity shops if I spot it. Got most of Zeppelin, Dire straits, ZZ Top, Kinks, Who, Squeeze (favorite), T Rex, Rolling Stones, Queen, Derek and Clive,Deep purple, Pink Floyd, Beatles, Cash, Dean Martin, Frank, Bee Gees.
I suppose nearly 150 records. The prices are going up too I'v be informed. I got a 4 pack double sided Elvis compliation (47 songs) for £1 about 5 years ago, and it was near mint condition (both sleeve and records). My nephew has started his own collection and advised me £8-10 would be the current asking price in a charity shop.
I have a pretty decent record player/music center (Rotel. so 1970's!!!), inherited from my grand mothers estate/house...
celticpilgrim said:
that's my point, while there are still rock/metal bands around, are we ever going to see another Sabbath, Priest or Maiden? interms of songs or musicianship
proper worried, me......
The chances are that you, and music fans of a similar age and taste (including myself), won't see another Sabbath, Priest or Maiden.proper worried, me......
But don't think for a second that there aren't going to be bands that kids today can idolise in the exact same way and be asking the same question about in 30 years time.
Rock will never die, it'll just evolve and leave us behind, if it hasn't already.
Funny this should come up - as I've had a recent sad / nostalgic moment of this ilk...
We all remember Peter Gabriel and - 'Sledgehammer', 'Steam' and 'Games Without Frontiers', right?
We all remember the cool video for 'Sledgehammer' (for me, when I was aged 14 at School) yeah?
But back then, although I kinda thought it was cool, I never really got much further with Peter Gabriel - didn't buy any albums or anything.
Then, very recently, Planet Rock played a few Gabriel tracks whilst I was in the garage working on a car. I hummed away to them, and thought to myself 'ya know what? Gabriel was coool man! Better buy an album actually!'
So I got onto Amazon, and ordered up his 'Greatest Hits' album thing.
Loving the music. However, there's a picture of him in the inside sleeve - and when I saw it, my jaw dropped, I sat and stared, and suddenly felt VERY old indeed, and a bit sad
Peter in 'Sledgehammer' how we all remember him:
Peter now *sob* :
Gutted etc...
We all remember Peter Gabriel and - 'Sledgehammer', 'Steam' and 'Games Without Frontiers', right?
We all remember the cool video for 'Sledgehammer' (for me, when I was aged 14 at School) yeah?
But back then, although I kinda thought it was cool, I never really got much further with Peter Gabriel - didn't buy any albums or anything.
Then, very recently, Planet Rock played a few Gabriel tracks whilst I was in the garage working on a car. I hummed away to them, and thought to myself 'ya know what? Gabriel was coool man! Better buy an album actually!'
So I got onto Amazon, and ordered up his 'Greatest Hits' album thing.
Loving the music. However, there's a picture of him in the inside sleeve - and when I saw it, my jaw dropped, I sat and stared, and suddenly felt VERY old indeed, and a bit sad
Peter in 'Sledgehammer' how we all remember him:
Peter now *sob* :
Gutted etc...
GingerWizard said:
There are some bands about that currently have the ability to go the distance so to speak. Muse for instance, cold play, radio head, oasis (I know some have split but reformation is easier now days and its a lucrative thing to do).
I find that very very depressing.. We're gonna lose all these great bands and replace them with s
te Thing is, it's a different time for music. back in the day there were fewer choices and 'the band' was the important thing.
I was born in the 50's so have grown up with these now legendary bands, albeit now legendary pensioners.
I listen to a lot of music as I work from home and happy to report there is still plenty of fine music being made, though it seems that fame and popularity are shorter in duration, possibly due to the sheer weight of new artists and the commercial pressures involved.
The acid test is when you listen to something and consider if you'll still be listening to it in 10, 20 or 30 years time, a lot of what one person regards as timeless is only timeless to them as it takes them back to a particular time in their life.
Plus of course the legacy of these great bands will available.
I was born in the 50's so have grown up with these now legendary bands, albeit now legendary pensioners.
I listen to a lot of music as I work from home and happy to report there is still plenty of fine music being made, though it seems that fame and popularity are shorter in duration, possibly due to the sheer weight of new artists and the commercial pressures involved.
The acid test is when you listen to something and consider if you'll still be listening to it in 10, 20 or 30 years time, a lot of what one person regards as timeless is only timeless to them as it takes them back to a particular time in their life.
Plus of course the legacy of these great bands will available.
celticpilgrim said:
that's my point, while there are still rock/metal bands around, are we ever going to see another Sabbath, Priest or Maiden? interms of songs or musicianship
proper worried, me......
In terms of songwriting and musicianship, absolutely. proper worried, me......
They're doing what the bands before them did, but heavier and better and more intelligently and technical than ever before (in varying ratios - Sometimes technicality can get in the way of a good song, for example)! It's just a natural evolutionary process... Bands like Sabbath (whom I love) are LEGENDARY because they laid down a blueprint for other to follow, and there are now hundreds of bands LIKE Sabbath who are - arguably - better...
BUT the fact that the music is simply not brand-spanking new any more, means that the impact of these bands is massively reduced.
At the time, the bands you mentioned were doing something completely new. These days it's so hard to come up with anything totally original, because everything has already been done before... Hence why if anything at all, you start seeing a regression instead of progess - IE. people producing 8-bit versions of songs etc.
Edited by CrabDan on Wednesday 18th July 22:03
I started to read this thread last night; thought about posting, but thought it better to have a think about it.
See, I love classic rock. I love Zep / DP / Sabbath / Lizzy / etc etc etc. Likewise lots of Floyd, lots of Marillion, quite a bit of early Genesis (I should point out that I wasn't aware of any of this until I was 16 in 1986), even some of the more obscure stuff like Chicken Shack, Big Brother & The Holding Company, and Camel. It's not an exhaustive list that, BTW.
Yet, they have aged; but aged like a good wine. But like a good vintage, it'll probably not be repeated in our lifetime.
All of the classic rock outfits we know and have loved - like Zep and Sabbath - have their roots in the 1910's and 1920's. Their riffs and solos were adaptations of stuff that Son House and Robert Johnson were playing back then. Yes, the riffs and solos got more involved but the basic architecture of the tunes was - whether by design or accident - faithful to them, and previously adapted over the years by Freddie King, Muddy Waters, and Buddy Guy to name but a few.
I suppose time and musical tastes move on, as do most things, and rock bands will continue to explore odd time signatures and riffs that fuse Phrygian Dominant acales with chromatic passing tones. Progress can be a good thing, but it's great that we can still buy and listen to stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akt3awj_Ah8
See, I love classic rock. I love Zep / DP / Sabbath / Lizzy / etc etc etc. Likewise lots of Floyd, lots of Marillion, quite a bit of early Genesis (I should point out that I wasn't aware of any of this until I was 16 in 1986), even some of the more obscure stuff like Chicken Shack, Big Brother & The Holding Company, and Camel. It's not an exhaustive list that, BTW.
Yet, they have aged; but aged like a good wine. But like a good vintage, it'll probably not be repeated in our lifetime.
All of the classic rock outfits we know and have loved - like Zep and Sabbath - have their roots in the 1910's and 1920's. Their riffs and solos were adaptations of stuff that Son House and Robert Johnson were playing back then. Yes, the riffs and solos got more involved but the basic architecture of the tunes was - whether by design or accident - faithful to them, and previously adapted over the years by Freddie King, Muddy Waters, and Buddy Guy to name but a few.
I suppose time and musical tastes move on, as do most things, and rock bands will continue to explore odd time signatures and riffs that fuse Phrygian Dominant acales with chromatic passing tones. Progress can be a good thing, but it's great that we can still buy and listen to stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akt3awj_Ah8
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