The harsh economics of touring....
Discussion
I think this is pretty spot on, I wouldn't have thought there aren't many savings to be made on these figures. Quite refrreshing to see actually.
He's not paying out that much for the band/transport etc. Plus there are the "normal" running costs of any other self employed/small business ... accountancy, admin, phone, post etc etc.
2 weeks rehearsing is a bit indulgent, if it is a regular set & line up, and there are probably the odd percentage/guarantee deal to be done at some of the venues he has listed, but otherwise he obviously knows his business.
(see how many of the current X factor etc bods understand VAT on ticket sales, PRS returns etc) .... and they should because there will be some disappointed and shocked people when the management produce a set of figures for them, with every thing from chauffeur driven cars, to every paper napkin they used on tour, deducted from their fee's
He's not paying out that much for the band/transport etc. Plus there are the "normal" running costs of any other self employed/small business ... accountancy, admin, phone, post etc etc.
2 weeks rehearsing is a bit indulgent, if it is a regular set & line up, and there are probably the odd percentage/guarantee deal to be done at some of the venues he has listed, but otherwise he obviously knows his business.
(see how many of the current X factor etc bods understand VAT on ticket sales, PRS returns etc) .... and they should because there will be some disappointed and shocked people when the management produce a set of figures for them, with every thing from chauffeur driven cars, to every paper napkin they used on tour, deducted from their fee's
grumbledoak said:
Interesting read. After "Courtney Love does the math" I had thought touring and merchandise were how they actually made any money.
some do.on the european leg of the roger waters tour, they had 1 wagon, (an artic, 45ft trailer) pulling just the merch. main money is progs and t-shirts, and it had to be filled on a regular basis.
mind you, there were another 26 wagons pulling all the gear, and 6 double deck luxury crew busses, all charged daily
so there is big money to be made.
Jazzy Jefferson said:
davepoth said:
He's wasting a hell of a lot of money there.
That's the way it goes for proper musicians.And at the other end of the scale biggest ever grossing tour U2's 360 degree tour $736 million. They didn't have trouble finding enought to pay for the sandwiches.
davepoth said:
Jazzy Jefferson said:
davepoth said:
He's wasting a hell of a lot of money there.
That's the way it goes for proper musicians.After all, this isn't some pub band we're talking about; who would you dispense with?
I like Fish, seen him live at least a dozen times and he's always very entertaining. However each subsequent solo album of his is less interesting than the last one, a lot of his 'official bootleg' releases are quite expensive which puts me off buying them (£25 for a tour DVD for example).
However he has spent over a decade now basically moaning how hard it is being a musician, how bleak it is to tour or sell a record which for me is getting stale. It's like he has an expectation that he should have a fan base that should be keeping him in the rock star lifestyle that he wants. I'm sure the royalties from Kayleigh should still be plenty as it's still played a lot on the radio.
Boo hoo, his former colleagues in Marillion seem to be doing OK, if he's not making the numbers then perhaps he needs to improve his product and give his publicist a kick to gain better exposure, sort out his pricing and present a more positive attitude. His earlier works with Marillion represent the finest neo-prog ever made, he's better than this and should sort himself out rather than just moaning.
However he has spent over a decade now basically moaning how hard it is being a musician, how bleak it is to tour or sell a record which for me is getting stale. It's like he has an expectation that he should have a fan base that should be keeping him in the rock star lifestyle that he wants. I'm sure the royalties from Kayleigh should still be plenty as it's still played a lot on the radio.
Boo hoo, his former colleagues in Marillion seem to be doing OK, if he's not making the numbers then perhaps he needs to improve his product and give his publicist a kick to gain better exposure, sort out his pricing and present a more positive attitude. His earlier works with Marillion represent the finest neo-prog ever made, he's better than this and should sort himself out rather than just moaning.
k for that, I thought there was something catastrophic gone wrong with my eyes!AdeTuono said:
davepoth said:
Jazzy Jefferson said:
davepoth said:
He's wasting a hell of a lot of money there.
That's the way it goes for proper musicians.After all, this isn't some pub band we're talking about; who would you dispense with?
When I used to tour I drove the splitter, did the backline, and did the monitors. We had a lighting guy, FOH soundman and a tour manager. The band was a four piece. If we had a festival gig we would bring in a dedicated drum tech as well as I could not do everything on my own in the time allowed. Everything above is as we used to do it, apart from the crew wages he pays are similar to what I was making on the same circuit 15 years ago, so in real terms he his paying his crew badly, but he acknowledges that. Seems honest to me.
AdeTuono said:
I think you'd be hard pressed to do it with less, TBH. You'll need (as he detailed) a sound guy, a lighting guy, a backline guy, and I assume Yatta is his road manager. I imagine the driver would stay with the vehicles if it's not possible to leave the trucks etc at the venue.
After all, this isn't some pub band we're talking about; who would you dispense with?
I wouldn't bring an extra driver - since he seems to be happy to drive between gigs and then play it seems a bit superfluous. But I think you could cut it down more.After all, this isn't some pub band we're talking about; who would you dispense with?
From my experience (which goes up as far as the main stage at a festival where Oasis were headlining) the presence of your own sound and lighting guys is often more of a hinderance than a help if you aren't bringing your own PA and light rig.
A five piece band would never be able to get all of their kit plus a PA and light rig into a splitter so they must have arranged to hire the stuff in at each venue - in that case it would make sense to get the guys who set the stuff up to run it, since their fee will be less than the price of employing people, plus their buyout, plus their hotel room, plus breakfast and they will know their way around their kit, making soundcheck much faster and giving much more time for eating sandwiches.
davepoth said:
From my experience (which goes up as far as the main stage at a festival where Oasis were headlining) the presence of your own sound and lighting guys is often more of a hinderance than a help if you aren't bringing your own PA and light rig.
A five piece band would never be able to get all of their kit plus a PA and light rig into a splitter so they must have arranged to hire the stuff in at each venue - in that case it would make sense to get the guys who set the stuff up to run it, since their fee will be less than the price of employing people, plus their buyout, plus their hotel room, plus breakfast and they will know their way around their kit, making soundcheck much faster and giving much more time for eating sandwiches.
Entirely disagree with this. You spec the PA requirements in the rider and work from there, I've never had any problems using house kit, and the monitor systems tend to be much more esoteric than the FOH. Festival setups with a quick turnaround and 5 minute soundchecks should have well EQd systems and be ready to rock from the word go. Worst case would be we used to carry our own desks and outboard along with a drum fill and hook these into the house systems. A five piece band would never be able to get all of their kit plus a PA and light rig into a splitter so they must have arranged to hire the stuff in at each venue - in that case it would make sense to get the guys who set the stuff up to run it, since their fee will be less than the price of employing people, plus their buyout, plus their hotel room, plus breakfast and they will know their way around their kit, making soundcheck much faster and giving much more time for eating sandwiches.
davepoth said:
AdeTuono said:
I think you'd be hard pressed to do it with less, TBH. You'll need (as he detailed) a sound guy, a lighting guy, a backline guy, and I assume Yatta is his road manager. I imagine the driver would stay with the vehicles if it's not possible to leave the trucks etc at the venue.
After all, this isn't some pub band we're talking about; who would you dispense with?
I wouldn't bring an extra driver - since he seems to be happy to drive between gigs and then play it seems a bit superfluous. But I think you could cut it down more.After all, this isn't some pub band we're talking about; who would you dispense with?
From my experience (which goes up as far as the main stage at a festival where Oasis were headlining) the presence of your own sound and lighting guys is often more of a hinderance than a help if you aren't bringing your own PA and light rig.
A five piece band would never be able to get all of their kit plus a PA and light rig into a splitter so they must have arranged to hire the stuff in at each venue - in that case it would make sense to get the guys who set the stuff up to run it, since their fee will be less than the price of employing people, plus their buyout, plus their hotel room, plus breakfast and they will know their way around their kit, making soundcheck much faster and giving much more time for eating sandwiches.
As stated by Gazza, a festival is a totally different kettle of Fish (sic) to a tour.
davepoth said:
From my experience (which goes up as far as the main stage at a festival where Oasis were headlining) the presence of your own sound and lighting guys is often more of a hinderance than a help if you aren't bringing your own PA and light rig.
Well, you are assuming the local crew has a dedicated sound guy, not someone who "has a go" occasionally, and even if they have someone who dares to call them self an FOH or Monitor engineer, they don't have painted on ears .... which an awful lot do.Bringing your own FOH/Monitor guy will stop a 30 minute soundcheck becoming a 2 hour feedback/argument fest. You can possibly lose the Monitor guy, if the local guy a) can be arsed to watch for instructions from the guys on stage and b) when he's got it right, leave the desk alone.
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