Fadeouts. When & Why?

[Gaspode]

I was listening to some music today, a mixture of live and studio tracks, and found myself wondering when and why they starting fading songs out on recordings rather than finishing them as if the band was playing live?

[GetCarter]

They are a cop out, and generally started in the late 60s - 70s.

Having said that I'd use them, but am not allwed to in my job. Cop out they may be but some pieces work much better with a fade IMHO

Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 10th August 19:45

[Gaspode]

It crossed my mind that one reason might be that they couldn't think up a good resolution to the song, hence the cop out? But then I started wondering if it was done to give a sense of continuity to the nest song when listened to on an album. Remember those days when we would listen to an entire album - first one side, then the other? I can't remember the last time I did that...

[Gokartmozart]

I thought it was to do with allowing DJ's to segue into the next song track and being able to repeat the
song title band etc.

[davepoth]

I have a feeling (backed up by wikipedia) that it was for longer songs that were too long for a single side of a 78 - they would fade it half way through and then fade in on the other side. Of course if it was on a jukebox (where a lot of listening was done) you would only hear the one side. I should think it became so normal to hear a two and a bit minute audio track fading at the end that people started doing it even when they didn't need to.

[Gaspode]

davepoth said:

I have a feeling (backed up by wikipedia) that it was for longer songs that were too long for a single side of a 78 - they would fade it half way through and then fade in on the other side. Of course if it was on a jukebox (where a lot of listening was done) you would only hear the one side. I should think it became so normal to hear a two and a bit minute audio track fading at the end that people started doing it even when they didn't need to.

Interesting. Did they ever have jukeboxes for 78's? I thought they came in with 45's in the 1950's.

[davepoth]

Gaspode said:

Interesting. Did they ever have jukeboxes for 78's? I thought they came in with 45's in the 1950's.

Here's one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5r86ZO4UNs

Even when the 45s came in, it wasn't completely unknown to have a song split across both sides of a 45.

[Tom_C76]

I always put it down to the artist not having enough ideas. The Joker by Steve Millar is a case in point, the third verse/fade being a repeat of the first. I guess inventing the word pompetus used all his inspiration...

[singlecoil]

I think fadeouts are absolutely appropriate for some songs. Can you imagine Third Stone from the Sun or Tomorrow Never Knows with an abrupt ending?

[Disastrous]

Suspicious Minds is an absolute belter with the fade out/fade back in again. Madness. I guess that's Vegas, baby.

[StevieBee]

Radio had a big influence on this. The faded intro / outro segments began to appear around the same time as popular music began benefiting from wider radio time (late 40s through to the early 50s). Early record players didn't start instantly so DJs had to cue records to allow a second or so 'spool' up to speed. It was a difficult art to get right and more often or not, the DJ would finish speaking and there would be a second of so of silence which doesn't sound much but can seem like 10 seconds when you hear it.

It also 'sounded' more fluid and still does to this day.

The station I'm involved with has presenters I'd classify as 'musos' and people like me who love music but cannot play anything other than other people's records! You can tell the muso presenters because they will refuse to over-talk the intro and will let a track playout until the counter shows 00.00.00 as - I assume - they consider any interrruption to the song disrespectful to the artist, which I do get but on radio, it sounds very odd, unless it's a specialist music show.

[GetCarter]

StevieBee said:

You can tell the muso presenters because they will refuse to over-talk the intro and will let a track playout until the counter shows 00.00.00 as - I assume - they consider any interrruption to the song disrespectful to the artist, which I do get but on radio, it sounds very odd, unless it's a specialist music show.

I bloody wish TV did this, esp Sky. You watch a 2 hour film with a sad ending and then get a continuity shouting about 'Come Dine With Me' over a stunning John Williams / Thomas Newman soundtrack. SOOOOOO annoying.

[singlecoil]

GetCarter said:

StevieBee said:

You can tell the muso presenters because they will refuse to over-talk the intro and will let a track playout until the counter shows 00.00.00 as - I assume - they consider any interrruption to the song disrespectful to the artist, which I do get but on radio, it sounds very odd, unless it's a specialist music show.

I bloody wish TV did this, esp Sky. You watch a 2 hour film with a sad ending and then get a continuity shouting about 'Come Dine With Me' over a stunning John Williams / Thomas Newman soundtrack. SOOOOOO annoying.

The BBC did it with Dances With Wolves, which annoys me (a lot) every time I watch it. I bought the DVD so as avoid it, but the DVD either has subtitles all the way through, or none at all.

[Arnd]

I read somewhere that Nirvana never faded out any songs.

And whenever I listen to them, and I've got everything they did, it seems to be true.

[gbbird]

I think artists & producers give more thought to this. Fadeouts suit some tracks more than others; longer, epic sounding songs often benefit from it. When done correctly it adds something to the listening experience. Also, if one listens carefully, the best music/instrumental solos/vocals can often be heard in fadeouts, as if the band, knowing it won't be prominent in the mix, experiment a little more than they would normally dare within the confines of a song. Two tracks immediately spring to mind where anything but fadeout simply would not do - Achilles Last Stand by Led Zep, and Beyond The Plains by Celestial Season