Idiots Guide To Time Signatures.

[coppernorks]

Can anyone explain time signatures in a simple fashion, so simple that even drummers can
understand [ oh dearie me, couldn't resist ]

No seriously.

Id like to know wtf people are on about when they sagely intone that the song
Baby's In Black by The Beatles is in 3/4 Waltz time and that Golden Brown
by The Stranglers is in carrazee 13/8 time

[Escapegoat]

It's a bit bizarre to want a text-based answer to something that is explained so much better on Youtube!

In Ye Olden Days we had to puzzle over textbooks and scores, but today, the online world's your oyster.

[cherryowen]

This lad is pretty good (he was house pianist at Casino Monte Carlo for a few years), and here explains differences in time signatures using tunes by The Beatles as examples:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzsKR7vNzAA&t=...

[oddman]

Top number is the number of beats in a bar of music

Bottom number is the type of note

2=minim
4 = crotchet (quarter note)
8= quaver
16=semiquaver

2/4 = march time one two,one two,one two,

3/4 = waltz one two three,one two three,one two three

4/4 = 'common time' ie most rock one two three four,one two three four,one two three four

6/8 = common in folk music usually counted one two three,two two three,one two three,two two three - think 'We are the champions' by Queen

[CAPP0]

oddman said:

Top number is the number of beats in a bar of music

Bottom number is the type of note

2=minim
4 = crotchet (quarter note)
8= quaver
16=semiquaver

2/4 = march time one two,one two,one two,

3/4 = waltz one two three,one two three,one two three

4/4 = 'common time' ie most rock one two three four,one two three four,one two three four

6/8 = common in folk music usually counted one two three,two two three,one two three,two two three - think 'We are the champions' by Queen

I think though that you need to have a musical ear to be able to either transpose the (completely correct) explanations above into what you're listening to, or conversely to work out the time signature of a particular song, unless it's very standard?

[oddman]

CAPP0 said:

I think though that you need to have a musical ear to be able to either transpose the (completely correct) explanations above into what you're listening to, or conversely to work out the time signature of a particular song, unless it's very standard?

Or listen with the sole focus on rhythm.

A good example to try this is Money by Pink Floyd. The reason the bass line is so distinctive and slightly unsettling is it's in 7/4 there is a change of signature to 4/4 for the guitar solo and then it resolves back to 7/4

Saying standard rock is 4/4 is a bit misleading. As a listener tapping your feet it is but as a guitarist you kind of hear and play it as 12/8.

Watching Strictly is quite good for learning the time signatures and watching rhythm of dancers. Eg waltz 3/4 foxtrot 4/4. Though even 'slow' dances can be very quick rhythmically.

I'm terrible with rhythm - have to practice with metronome and force myself to try and pick up the rhythm in songs - hence a qualification to comment!

Edited by oddman on Thursday 3rd December 08:31

[thewarlock]

CAPP0 said:

oddman said:

Top number is the number of beats in a bar of music

Bottom number is the type of note

2=minim
4 = crotchet (quarter note)
8= quaver
16=semiquaver

2/4 = march time one two,one two,one two,

3/4 = waltz one two three,one two three,one two three

4/4 = 'common time' ie most rock one two three four,one two three four,one two three four

6/8 = common in folk music usually counted one two three,two two three,one two three,two two three - think 'We are the champions' by Queen

I think though that you need to have a musical ear to be able to either transpose the (completely correct) explanations above into what you're listening to, or conversely to work out the time signature of a particular song, unless it's very standard?

Not necessarily, I mean, stuff that changes time signature a lot, as an example, Trampled Down Below by Black Label Society, will take a listen or two to get the hang of it, where its 3/4 mostly, with the odd bar of 4/4 and 5/4, but something a bit simpler like Times Like These by Foo Fighters, anyone can listen to the pre-chorus/main riff and count to 7, even if they're not 'trained'.

Figuring out the number on the top line is certainly easier. Consider Back In Black by ACDC.

Is that 2/4 or 4/4.

Nothing Else Matters by Metallica, is that 3/4? Or 6/8? They're essentially the same thing.

[dojo]

thewarlock said:

Not necessarily, I mean, stuff that changes time signature a lot, as an example, Trampled Down Below by Black Label Society, will take a listen or two to get the hang of it, where its 3/4 mostly, with the odd bar of 4/4 and 5/4, but something a bit simpler like Times Like These by Foo Fighters, anyone can listen to the pre-chorus/main riff and count to 7, even if they're not 'trained'.

Figuring out the number on the top line is certainly easier. Consider Back In Black by ACDC.

Is that 2/4 or 4/4.

Nothing Else Matters by Metallica, is that 3/4? Or 6/8? They're essentially the same thing.

2/4 vs 4/4 listen to the length of the phrases. If its popular music 99% of the time is in 4

3/4 and 6/8 are different - 6/8 is compound time sig and is essentially 2/4 with a triplet feel. i.e 6/8 has 2 strong pulses vs 3 in 3/4 (ie Nothing Else Matters is in 6)

[dojo]

thewarlock said:

Yes, however as a piper, a lot of the stuff that I play in 2/4 would be exactly the same if you scored out a 2, added a 4, and removed half the lines.

Similarly with a jig, yes, the number of accents and their position is different, compound and simple time have their differences, but in terms of how I'd play it, and how one would count it, they're not so different.

My point was that it shouldn't be that difficult to get an idea of time signature, if it's 3s, 4s, 5s, 7s, fecking, 11s or 13s in some of the weirder stuff I listen to.

My bad I thought you referring to contemporary music.

Yes agree with the 2 vs 4 and then you get Cut time and it gets super messy To be honest a lot of the time when I have to read in 2/4 I count through the bar line (not great but its just easier for me).

Yes its pretty easy to get an idea of the time sig - my wife (who isn't a musician) and I have 'game' where I ask her the time sigs of odd songs - most of the time she gets it.

[Escapegoat]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

And here's that piece played aloud to help the OP get the hang of this stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPMavTIaqhw

[thewarlock]

dojo said:

My bad I thought you referring to contemporary music.

Yes agree with the 2 vs 4 and then you get Cut time and it gets super messy To be honest a lot of the time when I have to read in 2/4 I count through the bar line (not great but its just easier for me).

Yes its pretty easy to get an idea of the time sig - my wife (who isn't a musician) and I have 'game' where I ask her the time sigs of odd songs - most of the time she gets it.

I was being a bit vague all round tbh.

Sticking to the 'idiot's guide' theme.

I'm primarily a guitarist, but I play some bass, some violin, some bagpipes, and more recently, drumkit.

So been messing around with fun time signatures; it'll be at least in part because I've been playing guitar longer, but the song Lateralus by Tool. All sorts of fun things happening with the time, and I find it harder to deal with on drums, than on guitar.

Bleed by Meshuggah is another fun one, it's basically in 4/4, your hands are playing a straight 4/4 rock beat, but your feet are playing hertas, so the bar only repeats every 3rd time. Polyrhythms add an extra complexity to the counting.

[CAPP0]

Escapegoat said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

And here's that piece played aloud to help the OP get the hang of this stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPMavTIaqhw

That did make me chuckle!

[CAPP0]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Ah, it's jazz. All time signatures are completely out of the window then

Alternatively, each musician has their own, separate, different time sig!

[thebraketester]

Bang, crash, crash. Bang, crash crash. That’s 3/4

Bang, crash, crash, crash . Bang, crash crash, crash. That’s 4/4

Bang, crash. Bang, crash. That’s 2/4

Bang, crash, crash, CRASH, crash, crash. Bang, crash, crash, CRASH, crash, crash. That’s 6/8


Golden Brown isn’t in 13/8... it’s in a combination of 3/4 and 4/4. or 6/8 and 7/8 depending on how you want to write it out.

HTH.

Edited by thebraketester on Thursday 3rd December 17:40

[CAPP0]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Apols, none intended, was just being frivolous.

[oddman]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Did you have a conductor or did you have to count that St out?

Glad I was a violinist - more playing than counting!

[P5BNij]

thebraketester said:

Bang, crash, crash. Bang, crash crash. That’s 3/4

Bang, crash, crash, crash . Bang, crash crash, crash. That’s 4/4

Bang, crash. Bang, crash. That’s 2/4

Bang, crash, crash, CRASH, crash, crash. Bang, crash, crash, CRASH, crash, crash. That’s 6/8


Golden Brown isn’t in 13/8... it’s in a combination of 3/4 and 4/4. or 6/8 and 7/8 depending on how you want to write it out.

HTH.

Edited by thebraketester on Thursday 3rd December 17:40

Makes sense to me, pretty much anyway! Can you tell me what time signature John Barry's theme to 'The Persuaders' is please...? I must've listened to it thousands of times and it still beguiles me, the underlying percussion seems to be in a completely different time signature to the keyboard parts. I was sitting in my car for quite a while this afternoon waiting for my other half to come away from a hospital appointment and played the full two minute version several times on the trot trying to work it out.... happy to be properly educated on this fab piece of music

[thebraketester]

The Persuaders.... it’s either 3/4 or 6/8, again depending on how you interpret it. It is an odd sounding piece for sure.

[coppernorks]

Most interesting reading.

Ginger Baker was one of the few rock musicians who could sight read, and
would annoy his arch nemesis Jack Bruce by starting off Jack's songs in strange
time signatures. " it's in 7/8 time Jack, keep up "

Does anyone find the intro to The Eagles Take it Easy slightly off, time wise ?

I have a decent sense of rhythmic strumming , but when I strum along to it I always miss the start of the
lyrics by half a beat.

[thebraketester]

That’s sneaky. There is a 9/8 bar (or a bar of 3/4 and a bar of 3/8) dropped in there. Hence if you try and play it all in 4/4 you’ll be fine until bar 8 where the above happens.