Production music. What you need to know.
Discussion
I've been seeing 'All you need to know' threads on PH for a while now, so I thought I'd give some free advice to those in this (relatively quiet) part of Pistonheads. Few make money from music, far fewer a living, but there is a way to do so 'under the radar'.
First up: Production Music (also known as Library Music) has been my sole job for 36 years, so I know what I'm talking about. There is a really good living to be made if you can cut it. The future may be problematic however, but for now there is still a living to be made.
How this will go.
No, I won't tell you how much I earn, but my music makes millions every few years, but I don't get paid millions!
No, I won't accept mp3's or any other submissions and tell you what I think of them, or pass them on to any production music companies.
I will however, tell you how to impress the people that may employ you on a freelance basis... and what you can earn from then on, is completely up to how good (read receptive) you are.
FYI: You'll need a proper computer and software to even start this conversation.
I hope that doesn't distract from creativity, which is what this all really about. However, a mouth organ and acoustic guitar may want to move onto another thread.
Ask away.
First up: Production Music (also known as Library Music) has been my sole job for 36 years, so I know what I'm talking about. There is a really good living to be made if you can cut it. The future may be problematic however, but for now there is still a living to be made.
How this will go.
No, I won't tell you how much I earn, but my music makes millions every few years, but I don't get paid millions!
No, I won't accept mp3's or any other submissions and tell you what I think of them, or pass them on to any production music companies.
I will however, tell you how to impress the people that may employ you on a freelance basis... and what you can earn from then on, is completely up to how good (read receptive) you are.
FYI: You'll need a proper computer and software to even start this conversation.
I hope that doesn't distract from creativity, which is what this all really about. However, a mouth organ and acoustic guitar may want to move onto another thread.
Ask away.
With 36 years in the business I'd imagine you've covered several genres or styles of music - is there one particular sort that is your forte? Do you tender for the work or do clients come to you? (My uncle is a composer / mixer / producer and does a lot of incidental and soundtrack work and I know sometimes he has to put the feelers out to get work, even so he's made a very good living from it).
Library music is easily dismissed as 'lift muzak' by some but I find it fascinating and am a big fan of the late '60s to late '70s period stuff by the likes of Alan Hawkshaw, Keith Mansfield and John Cameron etc from the KPM back catalogue. The musicianship and quality of the recordings is every bit as good as the output from far more well known artists of the day.
Library music is easily dismissed as 'lift muzak' by some but I find it fascinating and am a big fan of the late '60s to late '70s period stuff by the likes of Alan Hawkshaw, Keith Mansfield and John Cameron etc from the KPM back catalogue. The musicianship and quality of the recordings is every bit as good as the output from far more well known artists of the day.
I have to be (and we all have to be) flexible regarding the styles I can compose.
However, you are right that we have a particular style that we are known for.
Mine has been documentaries and lifestyles.
The good news with that genre is that it is repeated endlessly, and I get paid endlessly.
As for 'musak'. Much of it is, as that is what it supposed to be. If you have a big ego about your music, Production music is not the way to go. We supply what the industry needs. I was watching 'Claimed and Shamed' on BBC TV this morning, which was using my music. I was not shamed! (Terrible prog mind).
I should add.. I still get to work in the best studios in Europe, with the best musicians, which Is an absolute joy.
e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YORoqjXcGO0
ETA, you don't have to know how to score for an orchestra to write production music. (But it'll help).
However, you are right that we have a particular style that we are known for.
Mine has been documentaries and lifestyles.
The good news with that genre is that it is repeated endlessly, and I get paid endlessly.
As for 'musak'. Much of it is, as that is what it supposed to be. If you have a big ego about your music, Production music is not the way to go. We supply what the industry needs. I was watching 'Claimed and Shamed' on BBC TV this morning, which was using my music. I was not shamed! (Terrible prog mind).
I should add.. I still get to work in the best studios in Europe, with the best musicians, which Is an absolute joy.
e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YORoqjXcGO0
ETA, you don't have to know how to score for an orchestra to write production music. (But it'll help).
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 10th December 16:14
Ooh, this interests me.
I have been a library music fan for years, and years ago composed a fair bit of instrumental stuff, but never did anything with it. I never wanted to be well known, just a composer.
Then life got in the way.
With more free time, a house where I can make a noise, and a slight regret at never pursuing it I'm planning to pick it up again. The idea that I could make some income from it without having to perform it myself is great. I have zero idea of where to start though.
How does one go about selling one's compositions and turning a hobby into a career? Did you just approach Warner Chappell with a demo CD?
And if one is successful, what steps are involved between getting a commission/demoing something and the finished production?
I have been a library music fan for years, and years ago composed a fair bit of instrumental stuff, but never did anything with it. I never wanted to be well known, just a composer.
Then life got in the way.
With more free time, a house where I can make a noise, and a slight regret at never pursuing it I'm planning to pick it up again. The idea that I could make some income from it without having to perform it myself is great. I have zero idea of where to start though.
How does one go about selling one's compositions and turning a hobby into a career? Did you just approach Warner Chappell with a demo CD?
And if one is successful, what steps are involved between getting a commission/demoing something and the finished production?
Nice clip that - very reminiscent of lots of other stuff I've heard, that's a compliment by the way and not meant to be at all dismissive 
Here's a clip of my grandad in his home studio in Barnes in the early '80s, which was part of a BBC doc a few years ago.... during the war he was an ARP Warden and kept people entertained with his operatic singing voice, after the war he bought some surplus recording equipment and set himself up at home and recorded all sorts of stuff, reggae, comedy, opera, military, incidental tracks etc, with Olympic Studios just round the corner he and Felicity became very busy with various projects....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YsIwHoItA0
(Their daughter my aunt is married to the uncle I referred to earlier, she's in music accountancy and deals with the PRS a lot. I sometimes look back and wish I'd followed them into the business when I was much younger, but I had other interests and distractions at the time).
Hope this doesn't detract from your thread, I find it all so interesting as it's in the blood so to speak!
Here's a clip of my grandad in his home studio in Barnes in the early '80s, which was part of a BBC doc a few years ago.... during the war he was an ARP Warden and kept people entertained with his operatic singing voice, after the war he bought some surplus recording equipment and set himself up at home and recorded all sorts of stuff, reggae, comedy, opera, military, incidental tracks etc, with Olympic Studios just round the corner he and Felicity became very busy with various projects....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YsIwHoItA0
(Their daughter my aunt is married to the uncle I referred to earlier, she's in music accountancy and deals with the PRS a lot. I sometimes look back and wish I'd followed them into the business when I was much younger, but I had other interests and distractions at the time).
Hope this doesn't detract from your thread, I find it all so interesting as it's in the blood so to speak!
Interesting topic
I'm always coming up with song ideas, lyrics, and melodies but never get around to finishing off any tracks as I get too distracted and onto the next. One of the benefits of my WFH gig is that i get to play with music production a lot, having both my work and DAW computers side by side.
Does your line of work require that the track be complete and finished, or does someone take that and layer on their own instruments/vocal etc?
What do you mean by this: "FYI: You'll need a proper computer and software to even start this conversation."
Do you mean a high spec computer to run a DAW and why is it a pre-requisite to talking about it?
I'm always coming up with song ideas, lyrics, and melodies but never get around to finishing off any tracks as I get too distracted and onto the next. One of the benefits of my WFH gig is that i get to play with music production a lot, having both my work and DAW computers side by side.
Does your line of work require that the track be complete and finished, or does someone take that and layer on their own instruments/vocal etc?
What do you mean by this: "FYI: You'll need a proper computer and software to even start this conversation."
Do you mean a high spec computer to run a DAW and why is it a pre-requisite to talking about it?
Hey OP
I have been making house music for a couple years now and I am now slowly moving into working with original vocalists.
Currently I have just been using Splice for sample packs but I am starting to find artists to work with on Soundbetter.
My question is, how is it best to process original vocals? Currently I just get their WAV's they have recorded over a instrumental, I arrange them in Ableton and then send off to an engineer to mix down and master but I would like to start doing this myself. Are there any specific plugins or techinques you use to process and mix down vocals.
Cheers,
I have been making house music for a couple years now and I am now slowly moving into working with original vocalists.
Currently I have just been using Splice for sample packs but I am starting to find artists to work with on Soundbetter.
My question is, how is it best to process original vocals? Currently I just get their WAV's they have recorded over a instrumental, I arrange them in Ableton and then send off to an engineer to mix down and master but I would like to start doing this myself. Are there any specific plugins or techinques you use to process and mix down vocals.
Cheers,
Thanks for the interest chaps:
To answer some of the questions:
How does one go about selling one's compositions and turning a hobby into a career? Did you just approach Warner Chappell with a demo CD?
And if one is successful, what steps are involved between getting a commission/demoing something and the finished production?
You need to approach companies like Warner Chappell Production Music or more likely Audio Networks (who last time I looked were asking for new composers) and provide them with really good quality demos, preferably in a particular style. They should be 30 or 60 secs long, have a start and an end and sound TV quality.
If your work is 'I can do it in the bedroom' quality, then you'll need to provide the requisite quality. If you need studio time and live musicians, then you'll need to convince them that you can transcribe music and run a studio session. (A tough ask if you haven't done so before).
I should add, that 'I can do it in my bedroom' is not a ' what a t
t he is' moment. I currently have a BBC theme tune that airs every week that was 'created' in my 'bedroom/studio'.
They just want to make money. If your music is good enough, they'll employ you on a no fee no money basis, and if your music get's used, you'll make money. Usually a 50/50% on performance royalties.
IMPORTANT: THE MOMENT ANYONE DECIDES TO USE YOUR MUSIC, JOIN: PRSFORMUSIC.COM (or you'll be fked)
Re: Does the music have to be finished... well the demo doesn't, but when they say they need the finished track by Friday, you need it gone by Thursday
Regarding the computer spec.
If you want to submit a demo to anyone, it'll need to sound PROPER good. So I'm not talking about Mac v Pc, or speed, I'm talking about sounds. If the samples you use sound real, you'll stand a much better chance of convincing any emplyoer that you can produce finished products from your 'studio/bedroom'.
Your first 10 seconds to any employer will determine whether they listen to the next 10.
It needs to sound FAB.
No, really Fab... there are so many people that want this, you'll need to stand out. Either quality of sounds, or originality of compositions.
HTH
To answer some of the questions:
How does one go about selling one's compositions and turning a hobby into a career? Did you just approach Warner Chappell with a demo CD?
And if one is successful, what steps are involved between getting a commission/demoing something and the finished production?
You need to approach companies like Warner Chappell Production Music or more likely Audio Networks (who last time I looked were asking for new composers) and provide them with really good quality demos, preferably in a particular style. They should be 30 or 60 secs long, have a start and an end and sound TV quality.
If your work is 'I can do it in the bedroom' quality, then you'll need to provide the requisite quality. If you need studio time and live musicians, then you'll need to convince them that you can transcribe music and run a studio session. (A tough ask if you haven't done so before).
I should add, that 'I can do it in my bedroom' is not a ' what a t
t he is' moment. I currently have a BBC theme tune that airs every week that was 'created' in my 'bedroom/studio'.They just want to make money. If your music is good enough, they'll employ you on a no fee no money basis, and if your music get's used, you'll make money. Usually a 50/50% on performance royalties.
IMPORTANT: THE MOMENT ANYONE DECIDES TO USE YOUR MUSIC, JOIN: PRSFORMUSIC.COM (or you'll be f
ked)Re: Does the music have to be finished... well the demo doesn't, but when they say they need the finished track by Friday, you need it gone by Thursday
Regarding the computer spec.
If you want to submit a demo to anyone, it'll need to sound PROPER good. So I'm not talking about Mac v Pc, or speed, I'm talking about sounds. If the samples you use sound real, you'll stand a much better chance of convincing any emplyoer that you can produce finished products from your 'studio/bedroom'.
Your first 10 seconds to any employer will determine whether they listen to the next 10.
It needs to sound FAB.
No, really Fab... there are so many people that want this, you'll need to stand out. Either quality of sounds, or originality of compositions.
HTH
BOR said:
Do you have your own little black book of session musicians or is there a centralised telephone directory that you can use?
And once you've brought them into a studio, do they get a day rate or a royalty?
The London session music 'book' is well known, and I'm happy to send you details of who to organise them.. just PM me.And once you've brought them into a studio, do they get a day rate or a royalty?
Brummiebeau said:
Hey OP
I have been making house music for a couple years now and I am now slowly moving into working with original vocalists.
Currently I have just been using Splice for sample packs but I am starting to find artists to work with on Soundbetter.
My question is, how is it best to process original vocals? Currently I just get their WAV's they have recorded over a instrumental, I arrange them in Ableton and then send off to an engineer to mix down and master but I would like to start doing this myself. Are there any specific plugins or techinques you use to process and mix down vocals.
Cheers,
That is something that is above my 'tech paygrade'.. I get engineers to do this for me. Sorry to not be of any help on this.I have been making house music for a couple years now and I am now slowly moving into working with original vocalists.
Currently I have just been using Splice for sample packs but I am starting to find artists to work with on Soundbetter.
My question is, how is it best to process original vocals? Currently I just get their WAV's they have recorded over a instrumental, I arrange them in Ableton and then send off to an engineer to mix down and master but I would like to start doing this myself. Are there any specific plugins or techinques you use to process and mix down vocals.
Cheers,
Hoofy said:
Interesting.
By "proper computer", I hope you don't mean a Mac and just mean not a tablet or phone.
See above. Anything that will produce 'human ear' quality sounds in real time a dozen instruments at a time without crashing. (Most current PCs and Macs)By "proper computer", I hope you don't mean a Mac and just mean not a tablet or phone.
My setup has 64gb RAM and that is slightly overkill, but my last setup (32gb) didn't cut it.
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 10th December 17:31
GetCarter said:
They just want to make money. If your music is good enough, they'll employ you on a no fee no money basis, and if your music get's used, you'll make money. Usually a 50/50% on performance royalties.
How much is the average pay range in the industry? How much would you get for a themselves tune, how much for a series etcHow much music would you need to sell to make the UK average wage of £30k.
hyphen said:
GetCarter said:
They just want to make money. If your music is good enough, they'll employ you on a no fee no money basis, and if your music get's used, you'll make money. Usually a 50/50% on performance royalties.
How much is the average pay range in the industry? How much would you get for a themselves tune, how much for a series etcHow much music would you need to sell to make the UK average wage of £30k.
A mate (fellow production music composer) makes more than a million a year because he has 'every night' music.
If one of my tracks is played in Ireland on a Tuesday night at 11 pm, I'll make about 20p. If It's on 'Sex in the City" and played in 85 countries, it'll earn me about £20k a year. If the same piece of music was used on a TV ad coast to coast in the USA, then my earnings would rise to £60k.
That's from one piece of music.
I currently have over 1000 published works (most earning 20p mind)
Thanks for your helpful reply. I shall have to give all my stuff a listen and see how polished it is. It sounded good at the time, but probably not these days.
If you have written something that requires something expensive and logistically complicated, such as an orchestra, who organises and pays for that? I'm assuming you're not required to come up with them yourself, on spec?
If you have written something that requires something expensive and logistically complicated, such as an orchestra, who organises and pays for that? I'm assuming you're not required to come up with them yourself, on spec?
Sebastian Tombs said:
Thanks for your helpful reply. I shall have to give all my stuff a listen and see how polished it is. It sounded good at the time, but probably not these days.
If you have written something that requires something expensive and logistically complicated, such as an orchestra, who organises and pays for that? I'm assuming you're not required to come up with them yourself, on spec?
If you re 'in' with a publishing company, then they will pay for all costs (and still split earnings 50/50) - but being realistic, you'll need to show that your music will earn money before they will spunk money up the wall on an unknown.If you have written something that requires something expensive and logistically complicated, such as an orchestra, who organises and pays for that? I'm assuming you're not required to come up with them yourself, on spec?
Audio Networks may be the exception, but you'll earn less from them as they don't split all the money they earn 50/50 (much to the disgust of the rest of the industry).
Edited by GetCarter on Friday 10th December 18:09
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