Why is this track/musician so great?
Discussion
Before anyone says it, yes I’ve seen most of Rick Beato’s stuff on this topic. And that’s kinda what made me ask this here…
There are lots of assertions made that a particular song or musician was or is the best or one of the greatest. The reasons are usually given in some sort of poetic prose about a song being something like a perfect slice of summer pop, or how a guitarist’s phrasing of a particular solo used just the right amount of notes.
As a non-musician that sort of explanation does my head in as it gives no clue as to why those descriptions apply. I’m hoping we can use this thread to help those of us that are musically bereft understand what we’re listening to but not hearing.
Rick Beato does a great job of getting some of this together, but often his explanation is along the lines of, “And then instead of going from E flat minor to B, it goes to C sharp major. That’s just genius!” And he leaves it at that, with me wondering what the hell just happened!
This isn’t about being right or wrong, by the way, but more about helping me, and maybe others, understand why such acknowledgments are made.
Perhaps when someone posts about why a track/musician is so great, they can add in here more so that some of us can learn more. Ta!
There are lots of assertions made that a particular song or musician was or is the best or one of the greatest. The reasons are usually given in some sort of poetic prose about a song being something like a perfect slice of summer pop, or how a guitarist’s phrasing of a particular solo used just the right amount of notes.
As a non-musician that sort of explanation does my head in as it gives no clue as to why those descriptions apply. I’m hoping we can use this thread to help those of us that are musically bereft understand what we’re listening to but not hearing.
Rick Beato does a great job of getting some of this together, but often his explanation is along the lines of, “And then instead of going from E flat minor to B, it goes to C sharp major. That’s just genius!” And he leaves it at that, with me wondering what the hell just happened!
This isn’t about being right or wrong, by the way, but more about helping me, and maybe others, understand why such acknowledgments are made.
Perhaps when someone posts about why a track/musician is so great, they can add in here more so that some of us can learn more. Ta!
Something by The Beatles is an example of a very satisfying intro chord progression that mirrors the lyrics. David Bennett (piano teacher on YT did a very good analysis of the tune some years ago, but I can't find it). Anyway, the gist is this:-
The opening two bars are, 'Something in the way she moves, attracts me like no other lover'. So we're falling in love with someone.
The chords for these two bars are C / Cmaj7 / C7 / F, and each chord has a [/i]line cliche[/i] whereby the highest note in each chord descends a half step from the previous one. So, for each chord above, the highest note descends C > B > B flat / A which sounds like "falling" like falling in love. Clever.
The Great Gig In The Sky intro by Pink Floyd's Rick Wright is (IMO) astonishing starting on B minor and resolving to B flat major. Just looking at my chord chart, it includes Bm / F flat 5 / B flat / F / Gm7 / C9 / Fmaj7 / B flat maj7 / E flat maj7 / C minor 7 / F7. I have asked Rick and David for a deep dive on the theory of this, but nothing so far.
The opening two bars are, 'Something in the way she moves, attracts me like no other lover'. So we're falling in love with someone.
The chords for these two bars are C / Cmaj7 / C7 / F, and each chord has a [/i]line cliche[/i] whereby the highest note in each chord descends a half step from the previous one. So, for each chord above, the highest note descends C > B > B flat / A which sounds like "falling" like falling in love. Clever.
The Great Gig In The Sky intro by Pink Floyd's Rick Wright is (IMO) astonishing starting on B minor and resolving to B flat major. Just looking at my chord chart, it includes Bm / F flat 5 / B flat / F / Gm7 / C9 / Fmaj7 / B flat maj7 / E flat maj7 / C minor 7 / F7. I have asked Rick and David for a deep dive on the theory of this, but nothing so far.
I also watch Rick Beato and miss his "What makes this song great" series that he used to do. As another non-musician, I felt I was learning a little. But as it's mostly jargon to me, it's just the ability to come up with music that I can wrap myself in.
My latest discovery is Deja Vu by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. CSN and CSNY had never really been on my radar but somehow I ended up playing "Almost Cut My Hair" and I was hooked. I don't know if it's a great song (it's obviously not since I only discovered it in my 49th year on the planet) but I've listened maybe 20 times over the last month. The whole album is great too.
My latest discovery is Deja Vu by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. CSN and CSNY had never really been on my radar but somehow I ended up playing "Almost Cut My Hair" and I was hooked. I don't know if it's a great song (it's obviously not since I only discovered it in my 49th year on the planet) but I've listened maybe 20 times over the last month. The whole album is great too.
I watch Rick Beato and have done since the ear training days….
Music has rules and boundaries, lots of pop music follows the same harmonic conventions.
Eg. Chord I IV V and VI in one key.
And in any order. So in C major chord IV is F, V is G and VI is Am. A chord is two or more different notes at the same time, basic chords have 3 notes in them.
When a musician introduces extended chords eg chords with the 7th or 9th added or adds chords that are not in the key or changes (modulates) key this is when things get more interesting adding twists and turns to the music and exciting the listener.
Here’s a good example.
https://youtu.be/eV4dNQtAX10?si=NxbhROKN4XYwq-nD
Music has rules and boundaries, lots of pop music follows the same harmonic conventions.
Eg. Chord I IV V and VI in one key.
And in any order. So in C major chord IV is F, V is G and VI is Am. A chord is two or more different notes at the same time, basic chords have 3 notes in them.
When a musician introduces extended chords eg chords with the 7th or 9th added or adds chords that are not in the key or changes (modulates) key this is when things get more interesting adding twists and turns to the music and exciting the listener.
Here’s a good example.
https://youtu.be/eV4dNQtAX10?si=NxbhROKN4XYwq-nD
Edited by Simes205 on Thursday 7th December 07:44
Edited by Simes205 on Thursday 7th December 07:45
I've never really subscribed to this whole concept of someone being amazing in the view of a bunch of chin-stroking highbrow music critics. As far as I'm concerned either I like something or I don't. If the best instrumentalist on earth plays a boring tune it'll be a boring tune and I won't enjoy it. If someone who can't play for toffee keys everything into Logic Pro using the trackpad on their laptop, but it has a really catchy melody and chord changes that make the hair stand up on the back of your neck, I will enjoy it. A lot of award winning and critically acclaimed artists produce stuff that leaves me feeling completely nonplussed and wondering what I'm missing.
MitchT said:
I've never really subscribed to this whole concept of someone being amazing in the view of a bunch of chin-stroking highbrow music critics. As far as I'm concerned either I like something or I don't. If the best instrumentalist on earth plays a boring tune it'll be a boring tune and I won't enjoy it. If someone who can't play for toffee keys everything into Logic Pro using the trackpad on their laptop, but it has a really catchy melody and chord changes that make the hair stand up on the back of your neck, I will enjoy it. A lot of award winning and critically acclaimed artists produce stuff that leaves me feeling completely nonplussed and wondering what I'm missing.
Ahhh yes but what if they explain to you WHY you like that song.And then you realise that your other favourite songs are all in E-Flat or whatever.
I can’t read music, have never played an instrument despite trying but love listening to music and hearing someone dissect it and explain the mechanics is fascinating.
A lot of people just like their car.
Maybe it’s a Boxster.
Imagine if they knew nothing about it and you could explain the history of the flat 6 engine, why Porsche chose to go that way & the interesting history of mid engined Porsches, from 904 & 908 to 914 & the current models.
If that enhanced the pleasure they took from owning their car wouldn’t it be worthwhile?
Edited by Stick Legs on Friday 8th December 15:01
Edited by Stick Legs on Friday 8th December 15:02
LunarOne said:
I also watch Rick Beato and miss his "What makes this song great" series that he used to do. As another non-musician, I felt I was learning a little. But as it's mostly jargon to me, it's just the ability to come up with music that I can wrap myself in.
My latest discovery is Deja Vu by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. CSN and CSNY had never really been on my radar but somehow I ended up playing "Almost Cut My Hair" and I was hooked. I don't know if it's a great song (it's obviously not since I only discovered it in my 49th year on the planet) but I've listened maybe 20 times over the last month. The whole album is great too.
what a tune and album!! My latest discovery is Deja Vu by Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. CSN and CSNY had never really been on my radar but somehow I ended up playing "Almost Cut My Hair" and I was hooked. I don't know if it's a great song (it's obviously not since I only discovered it in my 49th year on the planet) but I've listened maybe 20 times over the last month. The whole album is great too.
I don't find Rick especially insightful personally. I've played for thirty years & it strikes me as largely a technical breakdown of songs, long on detail & short on emotion for the most part. That isn't to say I don't enjoy his videos but someone like Justin Hawkins is much better at showing you why the hook works & how it gets you, if that's what you want to learn from a pro musician.
Skyedriver said:
simonas2702 said:
what a tune and album!!
Great Album but Hair is definitely NOT my favourite track so where does leave me/As an aside went to see Graham Nash a couple of months ago in Glasgow courtesy of Planet Rock, damn good evenings entertainment.
President Merkin said:
I don't find Rick especially insightful personally. I've played for thirty years & it strikes me as largely a technical breakdown of songs, long on detail & short on emotion for the most part. That isn't to say I don't enjoy his videos but someone like Justin Hawkins is much better at showing you why the hook works & how it gets you, if that's what you want to learn from a pro musician.
I kind of get that.It seems that Rick a lot of the time forgets that he's a musical polymath, and most musicians can't keep up with his musings. I understand chromatic mediant chord changes and tritone substitutions, but when Rick "deep dives" into jazz stuff I'm lost.
Nethybridge said:
Amost Cut My Hair has been largely forgotten, and critics hated it,
but's it one of CSNYs best songs, OK Crosby's lyrics are a tad
overwrought and hippyish, but it has one of the best intro riffs ever.
Seen it played live three times over the years. First time I heard it in the 70s I laughed aloud because it was so..peak hippy. Some of it is so true "..like lookin in the mirror and seeing a poeleece car" but's it one of CSNYs best songs, OK Crosby's lyrics are a tad
overwrought and hippyish, but it has one of the best intro riffs ever.
Edited by popeyewhite on Friday 8th December 23:02
Stick Legs said:
Ahhh yes but what if they explain to you WHY you like that song.
And then you realise that your other favourite songs are all in E-Flat or whatever.
I can’t read music, have never played an instrument despite trying but love listening to music and hearing someone dissect it and explain the mechanics is fascinating.
A lot of people just like their car.
Maybe it’s a Boxster.
Imagine if they knew nothing about it and you could explain the history of the flat 6 engine, why Porsche chose to go that way & the interesting history of mid engined Porsches, from 904 & 908 to 914 & the current models.
If that enhanced the pleasure they took from owning their car wouldn’t it be worthwhile?
Well for me it's just how it makes me feel. I've heard people evangelising about mercury prize winning so-and-so or whatever, but that doesn't make me like their music if I don't already like it. If I was buying a Porsche Boxster I'd buy a 981 because of the wondeful noise it makes. Buying a 718 and keeping an article with with me to explain why, dynamically, it's a better car than a 981, is not going to compensate for that fact that it sounds like a diesel Astra. Ultimately, I want something that makes me feel good, and that's not always the thing that's techically best.And then you realise that your other favourite songs are all in E-Flat or whatever.
I can’t read music, have never played an instrument despite trying but love listening to music and hearing someone dissect it and explain the mechanics is fascinating.
A lot of people just like their car.
Maybe it’s a Boxster.
Imagine if they knew nothing about it and you could explain the history of the flat 6 engine, why Porsche chose to go that way & the interesting history of mid engined Porsches, from 904 & 908 to 914 & the current models.
If that enhanced the pleasure they took from owning their car wouldn’t it be worthwhile?
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