Discussion
The early stuff with Ozzy was truly phenomenal and cemented the true sound of Heavy Metal, along with Priest who took up the gauntlet in the late 70's. But the Dio stuff was also brilliant, but with a different feel to it. I actually preferred Dio's solo stufff and Holy Diver has to be one of the classic metal albums of all time alongside the likes of British Steel, Wheels of Steel, Ace of Spades etc
IMO the 3 greatest singers in rock/metal are/were Rob Halford, Glenn Hughes and Ronnie Dio. Hughes and Halford are still brilliant today even in their 50's. Ozzy sounded great in the 70's but is more known for his sheer presence than his ability as a singer and more recently the reality tv stuff. He has played a massive part in keeping metal on the map and as Ozzy has out sold Sabbath by about 4 to 1 in terms of sales. However, in terms of influence Sabbath are right up there with Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest as the 3 bands who shaped Metal.
IMO the 3 greatest singers in rock/metal are/were Rob Halford, Glenn Hughes and Ronnie Dio. Hughes and Halford are still brilliant today even in their 50's. Ozzy sounded great in the 70's but is more known for his sheer presence than his ability as a singer and more recently the reality tv stuff. He has played a massive part in keeping metal on the map and as Ozzy has out sold Sabbath by about 4 to 1 in terms of sales. However, in terms of influence Sabbath are right up there with Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest as the 3 bands who shaped Metal.
Mark13 said:
The early stuff with Ozzy was truly phenomenal and cemented the true sound of Heavy Metal, along with Priest who took up the gauntlet in the late 70's. But the Dio stuff was also brilliant, but with a different feel to it. I actually preferred Dio's solo stufff and Holy Diver has to be one of the classic metal albums of all time alongside the likes of British Steel, Wheels of Steel, Ace of Spades etc
IMO the 3 greatest singers in rock/metal are/were Rob Halford, Glenn Hughes and Ronnie Dio. Hughes and Halford are still brilliant today even in their 50's. Ozzy sounded great in the 70's but is more known for his sheer presence than his ability as a singer and more recently the reality tv stuff. He has played a massive part in keeping metal on the map and as Ozzy has out sold Sabbath by about 4 to 1 in terms of sales. However, in terms of influence Sabbath are right up there with Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest as the 3 bands who shaped Metal.
Naming Judas Priest alongside Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple is ludicrous!IMO the 3 greatest singers in rock/metal are/were Rob Halford, Glenn Hughes and Ronnie Dio. Hughes and Halford are still brilliant today even in their 50's. Ozzy sounded great in the 70's but is more known for his sheer presence than his ability as a singer and more recently the reality tv stuff. He has played a massive part in keeping metal on the map and as Ozzy has out sold Sabbath by about 4 to 1 in terms of sales. However, in terms of influence Sabbath are right up there with Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest as the 3 bands who shaped Metal.
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is one of my all time top records however I've recently been listening to my record collection by year and I've found I prefer the RJD era Sabbath on the whole.
Strangely I'm listening to "Holy Dio - A Tribute To Ronnie James Dio" at the moment.
Of course they weren't the only singers, the others were.....Ian Gillan, Glen Hughes & (the last in line) Tony Martin.
Strangely I'm listening to "Holy Dio - A Tribute To Ronnie James Dio" at the moment.
Of course they weren't the only singers, the others were.....Ian Gillan, Glen Hughes & (the last in line) Tony Martin.
Zod said:
Naming Judas Priest alongside Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple is ludicrous!
I totally disagree. I may also put Metallica up there too. Priest are pure metal rather than blues based heavy rock. Also the likes of Hughes and Halford can still hit their full range which cannot be said for Plant, Gillan and Coverdale. Yes, they were great, but what are they now? You also have the likes of Glenn Tipton, a great metal guitarist and vastly under rated.IainT said:
Have to agree but I'd put 'Zep in a class of their own.
As for the original question: Ozzy every day.
The issue is about era's and the genre. Zeppelin are not a heavy metal act, but elements of what they did influenced metal. They produced some classic tracks, but did not last as a band for various reasons. As for the original question: Ozzy every day.
Mark13 said:
IainT said:
Have to agree but I'd put 'Zep in a class of their own.
As for the original question: Ozzy every day.
The issue is about era's and the genre. Zeppelin are not a heavy metal act, but elements of what they did influenced metal. They produced some classic tracks, but did not last as a band for various reasons. As for the original question: Ozzy every day.
Definitely not heavy metal though. Heavy metal largely bastardised one part of what made Led Zep great, losing the greatness by just emphasising the heavy side. Led Zeppelin were always about light and shade.
You simply cannot compare Sabbs MkI with RJD/MkII.
Ozzy is loved for being part of that original, metal genesis but to the cognoscenti, RJD was emphatically not some make-do interloper (having made his post-Elf bones, heroically with Blackmore's legendary endeavour) and his melodic genius inspired a totally new direction which signified a metaphorical metal lighthouse from which radiance all brothers of metal could sate their creativity whilst avoiding the destructive rocks of false prophecy and deception.
There's no question that from Master of reality onwards, the Brummie quartet built upon the populist simplicity of their opening and most famous salvo with a flair that belies the neanderthallic tag of metallicism in the eyes of the masses: time changes that became Iommi's trademark combined with constantly varying tempos and all the while, Oswaldo's inimitable delivery sealing the deal.
Just magical.
However, I'll never forget the first time the needle hit plastic and Neon Knights assailed that all too willing, small gathering of teenage supplicants; NWOBHM had landed, Priest were in the ascendency and in that moment, the fires of Asgard joined in a holy trinity with denim, leather and a whole lotta tennis raquet abuse.
Re Priest; they'd morphed into pure metal by British Steel but heralded from the Heavy Chiffon academy that formed the progeny of the early Zep/Purple epoch; along with Uriah Heep, note how mellow piano chords and whispy notions of hippydom during the early-mid 70s had, by 1980, been undermined and replaced by the steely remorselesness of Grinder et al. (Although afaiwc, little blew away the webbed cobbings like a dose of 'Screaming...')
As much as Rob, KK and les boys hit the spot, they were the (undoubtedly desirable) pie and chips when played alongside the Steak tartare of Ronnie & Tony's Maxim grade, gastronomic delight.
Dio's warble and the Iommic Riff on something like Turn Up The Night? Unadulterated bliss.
P.S. Huge plaudits to Glennard Hughes; a real trooper and never one for sloping off to the foothills of The Atlas range in a tedious attempt to unify ethnic pottery with some ill timed jazz fusion, all to create some 'worthy,' earnest outpouring, surrounding yourself with serious musos who favour the sandal, trudging out LZII on the balalaika.
Ozzy is loved for being part of that original, metal genesis but to the cognoscenti, RJD was emphatically not some make-do interloper (having made his post-Elf bones, heroically with Blackmore's legendary endeavour) and his melodic genius inspired a totally new direction which signified a metaphorical metal lighthouse from which radiance all brothers of metal could sate their creativity whilst avoiding the destructive rocks of false prophecy and deception.
There's no question that from Master of reality onwards, the Brummie quartet built upon the populist simplicity of their opening and most famous salvo with a flair that belies the neanderthallic tag of metallicism in the eyes of the masses: time changes that became Iommi's trademark combined with constantly varying tempos and all the while, Oswaldo's inimitable delivery sealing the deal.
Just magical.
However, I'll never forget the first time the needle hit plastic and Neon Knights assailed that all too willing, small gathering of teenage supplicants; NWOBHM had landed, Priest were in the ascendency and in that moment, the fires of Asgard joined in a holy trinity with denim, leather and a whole lotta tennis raquet abuse.
Re Priest; they'd morphed into pure metal by British Steel but heralded from the Heavy Chiffon academy that formed the progeny of the early Zep/Purple epoch; along with Uriah Heep, note how mellow piano chords and whispy notions of hippydom during the early-mid 70s had, by 1980, been undermined and replaced by the steely remorselesness of Grinder et al. (Although afaiwc, little blew away the webbed cobbings like a dose of 'Screaming...')
As much as Rob, KK and les boys hit the spot, they were the (undoubtedly desirable) pie and chips when played alongside the Steak tartare of Ronnie & Tony's Maxim grade, gastronomic delight.
Dio's warble and the Iommic Riff on something like Turn Up The Night? Unadulterated bliss.
P.S. Huge plaudits to Glennard Hughes; a real trooper and never one for sloping off to the foothills of The Atlas range in a tedious attempt to unify ethnic pottery with some ill timed jazz fusion, all to create some 'worthy,' earnest outpouring, surrounding yourself with serious musos who favour the sandal, trudging out LZII on the balalaika.
derestrictor said:
Ozzy is loved for being part of that original, metal genesis but to the cognoscenti, RJD was emphatically not some make-do interloper (having made his post-Elf bones, heroically with Blackmore's legendary endeavour) and his melodic genius inspired a totally new direction which signified a metaphorical metal lighthouse from which radiance all brothers of metal could sate their creativity whilst avoiding the destructive rocks of false prophecy and deception.
There's no question that from Master of reality onwards, the Brummie quartet built upon the populist simplicity of their opening and most famous salvo with a flair that belies the neanderthallic tag of metallicism in the eyes of the masses: time changes that became Iommi's trademark combined with constantly varying tempos and all the while, Oswaldo's inimitable delivery sealing the deal.
Just magical.
However, I'll never forget the first time the needle hit plastic and Neon Knights assailed that all too willing, small gathering of teenage supplicants; NWOBHM had landed, Priest were in the ascendency and in that moment, the fires of Asgard joined in a holy trinity with denim, leather and a whole lotta tennis raquet abuse.
Re Priest; they'd morphed into pure metal by British Steel but heralded from the Heavy Chiffon academy that formed the progeny of the early Zep/Purple epoch; along with Uriah Heep, note how mellow piano chords and whispy notions of hippydom during the early-mid 70s had, by 1980, been undermined and replaced by the steely remorselesness of Grinder et al. (Although afaiwc, little blew away the webbed cobbings like a dose of 'Screaming...')
As much as Rob, KK and les boys hit the spot, they were the (undoubtedly desirable) pie and chips when played alongside the Steak tartare of Ronnie & Tony's Maxim grade, gastronomic delight.
Dio's warble and the Iommic Riff on something like Turn Up The Night? Unadulterated bliss.
P.S. Huge plaudits to Glennard Hughes; a real trooper and never one for sloping off to the foothills of The Atlas range in a tedious attempt to unify ethnic pottery with some ill timed jazz fusion, all to create some 'worthy,' earnest outpouring, surrounding yourself with serious musos who favour the sandal, trudging out LZII on the balalaika.
A Der-wall at it's finest! Well thought out, detailed and poetic.There's no question that from Master of reality onwards, the Brummie quartet built upon the populist simplicity of their opening and most famous salvo with a flair that belies the neanderthallic tag of metallicism in the eyes of the masses: time changes that became Iommi's trademark combined with constantly varying tempos and all the while, Oswaldo's inimitable delivery sealing the deal.
Just magical.
However, I'll never forget the first time the needle hit plastic and Neon Knights assailed that all too willing, small gathering of teenage supplicants; NWOBHM had landed, Priest were in the ascendency and in that moment, the fires of Asgard joined in a holy trinity with denim, leather and a whole lotta tennis raquet abuse.
Re Priest; they'd morphed into pure metal by British Steel but heralded from the Heavy Chiffon academy that formed the progeny of the early Zep/Purple epoch; along with Uriah Heep, note how mellow piano chords and whispy notions of hippydom during the early-mid 70s had, by 1980, been undermined and replaced by the steely remorselesness of Grinder et al. (Although afaiwc, little blew away the webbed cobbings like a dose of 'Screaming...')
As much as Rob, KK and les boys hit the spot, they were the (undoubtedly desirable) pie and chips when played alongside the Steak tartare of Ronnie & Tony's Maxim grade, gastronomic delight.
Dio's warble and the Iommic Riff on something like Turn Up The Night? Unadulterated bliss.
P.S. Huge plaudits to Glennard Hughes; a real trooper and never one for sloping off to the foothills of The Atlas range in a tedious attempt to unify ethnic pottery with some ill timed jazz fusion, all to create some 'worthy,' earnest outpouring, surrounding yourself with serious musos who favour the sandal, trudging out LZII on the balalaika.
For me original Sabbath were better in their simplicity and rawness. Later Sabbath had some awesome production behind it and reflected the direction that Metal was moving.
Juxtaposing that against the pop-Metal out at the time of the later (by that I mean 80s) it was the real thing - think Bon Jovi et al as the popular face of metal back then. *shudder*
Out of Ozzy and Dio, Ronnie was the better singer, although I actually thought Tony Martin was even better. The line-up I will always remember as the best band ever, was Iommi, Butler, Ward and Osbourne. I saw them many times from 1973 on, and that first ever concert in Cardiff in 1973 was the loudest I have ever experienced. Ozzy had an incredible stage presence. The atmosphere at the Ozzy era concerts was unequalled for me. The Dio-era Sabbath was a different band that can't really be compared to the Ozzy-era, or any other era.
Osbourne, Ward, Butler and Iommi will never be surpassed.
Osbourne, Ward, Butler and Iommi will never be surpassed.
This is a great thread.
I went to see Saxon last night in Wolverhampton, 33 years and still a phenomenal metal band. It got me thinking about some of the names we have mentioned, Priest, Glenn Hughes, Sabbath, Plant and Bonham. Pretty much all black country boys. It must have been something in the water.
I went to see Saxon last night in Wolverhampton, 33 years and still a phenomenal metal band. It got me thinking about some of the names we have mentioned, Priest, Glenn Hughes, Sabbath, Plant and Bonham. Pretty much all black country boys. It must have been something in the water.
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