Boxster vs Ginetta G40 vs MX5 racing
Discussion
2011 was my second season of racing and all my racing so far has been done in a Mk1 MX5 with Ma5da. It's now registration time for 2012 for the MX5s and while I was intending to carry on with these guys, I'm now debating whether I switch to the Mk3s (slightly less frenetic and there are a few now available for sale) or even try something different like the Porsche Championship (BRSCC one) in a Boxster or try the Ginetta G40s.
There are some fairly historic comments on here about the Porsche Championships but would be interested to hear any more recent views. I did go and watch a couple of their events this year and as an ex-Boxster owner, I am slightly leaning towards this one, although my experiences in Ma5da have been pretty positive and suspect the season costs will be a bit cheaper. I did to a test day in the Mk3 which was good but clearly they're not a Boxster.
Don't know much about the Ginettas to be honest. Have always liked the G50s but that's beyond my budget!
Any comments appreciated. Thanks.
There are some fairly historic comments on here about the Porsche Championships but would be interested to hear any more recent views. I did go and watch a couple of their events this year and as an ex-Boxster owner, I am slightly leaning towards this one, although my experiences in Ma5da have been pretty positive and suspect the season costs will be a bit cheaper. I did to a test day in the Mk3 which was good but clearly they're not a Boxster.
Don't know much about the Ginettas to be honest. Have always liked the G50s but that's beyond my budget!
Any comments appreciated. Thanks.
Inititial Boxster prices seem high to buy but I think parts prices there after are far cheaper than 944 S2s as there are plenty about, including in breakers! Not as cheap as MX5s but still not too bad. The Boxster has the advantage of also been eligible for the PCGB series and the CSCC Deutsche marque, too, so you could race in a couple of other places (inc Spa) if you wanted.
G40s are great cars & purpose built racers with sequential gearboxes & slicks. Parts availability & support at race meetings is very good from the factory. I'm not sure what it would cost to self run one but it does mostly seem like professional teams running cars at the moment in the Ginetta Challenge. A friend of mine runs two in the Ginetta Challenge; it may be possible to get a test in one of those if you were interested.
G40s are great cars & purpose built racers with sequential gearboxes & slicks. Parts availability & support at race meetings is very good from the factory. I'm not sure what it would cost to self run one but it does mostly seem like professional teams running cars at the moment in the Ginetta Challenge. A friend of mine runs two in the Ginetta Challenge; it may be possible to get a test in one of those if you were interested.
There is a new class in the BRSCC Porsche Championship this year - the Production Boxster class. It's intended as a bridge between the 924s (I raced one last year) and the 'full-fat' racing Boxsters.
Costs should be manageable, as the cars are using standard suspension, wheels, etc, (although obviously all safety gear still there - full cage, extinguisher etc).
It's a great championship - it was my first season of racing in 2011 and everyone put up with my irritating questions and constant requests for help (e.g. One of the chaps gave me a spare kill switch when mine went pop just before scrutineering) - and it's competitive enough without being stupid.
Highly recommended - particularly given the new 'Production Class' Boxsters - I am having the first car built at the moment - it will be on our stand at the Autosport show.
Costs should be manageable, as the cars are using standard suspension, wheels, etc, (although obviously all safety gear still there - full cage, extinguisher etc).
It's a great championship - it was my first season of racing in 2011 and everyone put up with my irritating questions and constant requests for help (e.g. One of the chaps gave me a spare kill switch when mine went pop just before scrutineering) - and it's competitive enough without being stupid.
Highly recommended - particularly given the new 'Production Class' Boxsters - I am having the first car built at the moment - it will be on our stand at the Autosport show.
andy97 said:
Inititial Boxster prices seem high to buy but I think parts prices there after are far cheaper than 944 S2s as there are plenty about, including in breakers! Not as cheap as MX5s but still not too bad. The Boxster has the advantage of also been eligible for the PCGB series and the CSCC Deutsche marque, too, so you could race in a couple of other places (inc Spa) if you wanted.
G40s are great cars & purpose built racers with sequential gearboxes & slicks. Parts availability & support at race meetings is very good from the factory. I'm not sure what it would cost to self run one but it does mostly seem like professional teams running cars at the moment in the Ginetta Challenge. A friend of mine runs two in the Ginetta Challenge; it may be possible to get a test in one of those if you were interested.
Running a car with 'factory support' myself, I'd say it was a double edged sword.G40s are great cars & purpose built racers with sequential gearboxes & slicks. Parts availability & support at race meetings is very good from the factory. I'm not sure what it would cost to self run one but it does mostly seem like professional teams running cars at the moment in the Ginetta Challenge. A friend of mine runs two in the Ginetta Challenge; it may be possible to get a test in one of those if you were interested.
I have no idea about Ginetta, but Renaultsport seem to make all the parts that break most on our Clio ever so slightly different from the road going version, which means that we have to buy a lot more direct from them than we otherwise would. And guess what, the parts are more expensive than standard road parts (and not necessarily any better) and certainly a magnitude more than obtaining parts from a breaker.
Having said that, it's nice to be able to get on the phone to them and have someone immediately know what you're talking about, have the part to hand and be able to bring it to the circuit/courier it straight to you, but if cost is an issue, it's certainly something to think about.
I do like the G40 though.....
I'd be interested to know how well the standard Boxster suspension performs over a race distance in terms of damping and strength over curbs etc, especially when used with list 1b tyres. Do the rules require standard spring rates also? has any testing been done?
I would have also thought a genuine set of Porsche dampers would be more expensive than a set of aftermarket Gaz race dampers (at a guess), unless you are planning to race on road milage/rebuilt dampers?
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
I would have also thought a genuine set of Porsche dampers would be more expensive than a set of aftermarket Gaz race dampers (at a guess), unless you are planning to race on road milage/rebuilt dampers?
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
ma5da91 said:
I'd be interested to know how well the standard Boxster suspension performs over a race distance in terms of damping and strength over curbs etc, especially when used with list 1b tyres. Do the rules require standard spring rates also? has any testing been done?
I would have also thought a genuine set of Porsche dampers would be more expensive than a set of aftermarket Gaz race dampers (at a guess), unless you are planning to race on road milage/rebuilt dampers?
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
I'm having the first car built, and testing is pencilled in for end-March - we'll see! Final regs still being written up. The class should enable a car to be built for c£10,000 though - and when you consider they're v v quick for clubman racecars, £10k isn't too bad....I would have also thought a genuine set of Porsche dampers would be more expensive than a set of aftermarket Gaz race dampers (at a guess), unless you are planning to race on road milage/rebuilt dampers?
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
ma5da91 said:
I'd be interested to know how well the standard Boxster suspension performs over a race distance in terms of damping and strength over curbs etc, especially when used with list 1b tyres.
This was my concern and the reason why I'm going for a full-fat car. My own 986 has the M030 suspension and 18" wheels and I reckon that would just about be OK on R888s. Just have to see I guess.ma5da91 said:
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
Mmm - the cost of the donor car has plummeted; at the beginning of 2011 a full-up race 986 I believe cost around £26k (one of last year's was on eBay for a mere £15k) but to build your own to the new production spec could cost allegedly as little as £10k. Here's the website, but the 2012 regs aren't up just yet:http://www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk/
ma5da91 said:
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
Not too many please - would be nice to still see the front from where I'm likely be!I have had the pleasure in running a Ginetta G40 at the end of 2011 in the Challenge. Customer has a limited budget but wanted the best racing series car to learn in.
Running - Maintainence costs have been Very good. Only suspect bit so far has been bit clutch drag.
Per weekend very cost effective.
Racing wise very close and good TV.
Second Hand cars around the £26,000 so hold value well.
Happy to help with any further Questions / have a car available for test ? . Nick Dudfield.
Running - Maintainence costs have been Very good. Only suspect bit so far has been bit clutch drag.
Per weekend very cost effective.
Racing wise very close and good TV.
Second Hand cars around the £26,000 so hold value well.
Happy to help with any further Questions / have a car available for test ? . Nick Dudfield.
£16k seems a very large difference in build cost between the two cars, for from what I can gather is dampers, gt3 wishbones and wheels?
£2.5k worth of parts which you could fit yourself?
Of course without regs yet its hard to really see the difference between the two classes.
How are the 924's getting on?
It's been hard to follow what's happening since we sold ours, the forum's a ghost town!
£2.5k worth of parts which you could fit yourself?
Of course without regs yet its hard to really see the difference between the two classes.
How are the 924's getting on?
It's been hard to follow what's happening since we sold ours, the forum's a ghost town!
ma5da91 said:
I'd be interested to know how well the standard Boxster suspension performs over a race distance in terms of damping and strength over curbs etc, especially when used with list 1b tyres. Do the rules require standard spring rates also? has any testing been done?
I would have also thought a genuine set of Porsche dampers would be more expensive than a set of aftermarket Gaz race dampers (at a guess), unless you are planning to race on road milage/rebuilt dampers?
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
Funny thing is I think they run on GAZ in that Porsche Drivers boxster championship for the normal class, many of the cars running in the PCGB Championship or CSCC also run on GAZ (including my 944 S2). I would have also thought a genuine set of Porsche dampers would be more expensive than a set of aftermarket Gaz race dampers (at a guess), unless you are planning to race on road milage/rebuilt dampers?
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
The Boxsters are almost a very tempting series to enter as can be seen from the interest here, I think a few more cars on the grid in 2012 would result in a surge in entries next year.
Seriously OP ring around some of the specialists and get quotes for things like race car builds, pre-prepped cars, engine replacements/rebuilds etc etc. Talk to the ppl that have raced these cars and get some solid numbers from them rather than just the biassed 'salesman' opinions you get on internet forums.
ma5da91 said:
£16k seems a very large difference in build cost between the two cars, for from what I can gather is dampers, gt3 wishbones and wheels?
Sorry - should have stated that the £26k came from what a full-spec car cost to build at the start of the 2011 season, so the size of the difference needs to be adjusted. Donor cars can be had for considerably less now, plus full-fat prep would likely include a full strip and dip too.Edited by spyderman8 on Saturday 7th January 19:17
spyderman8 said:
ma5da91 said:
Its a shame the Boxsters have become so expensive as to require an 'entry level' production class as the original rules when written were intended to keep costs down.
Mmm - the cost of the donor car has plummeted; at the beginning of 2011 a full-up race 986 I believe cost around £26k (one of last year's was on eBay for a mere £15k) but to build your own to the new production spec could cost allegedly as little as £10k. Here's the website, but the 2012 regs aren't up just yet:For eg, I was quoted 20 hours for fitting the cage, 20 hours for stripping the rest and 20 hours for fitting everything else. If you assume £50 per hour thats £3000, so where does the rest of the money get spent that justifies £25-26K cars.
Clearly if you can do some of the work yourself, even just stripping out, and don't have fancy paint jobs then thats a big saving.
I'm not trying to be critical, because they are good looking cars and its something I'd like to be interested in in the future.
Thanks for the comments so far folks.
I saw an advert a couple of months ago for a £15k Boxster which looked comparatively cheap to me. Not sure why he was selling it but looked like he'd had some decent results in it in his first season of racing. I've also seen a couple of adverts around the £20k mark so I guess they're coming down a bit and that's what was starting to tempt me. Have only seen one G40 for sale recently but quite a few G50s which are ever so tempting but couldn't then afford even the entry fees and can't see many people wanting to share one with a novice!!
I did "arrive and drive" in my first season with the MX5s but bought one for last season. Ignoring the initial outlay, not convinced it was particularly cheaper this way but sort of feel more involved, hence why I'd prefer to own my own car for this season.
I did consider starting off with the Porsches and spoke to a few people about 944s etc. Running costs of £15-20k for a 944 were quoted to me and £30-40k for the front running 968s. I sort of assumed that the Boxster costs would be somewhere in between which at the time looked pretty high for a novice and put me off a bit. Suspect though that in reality they are at the lower end of that range, and the new Production Class I guess will be even cheaper - hope that encourages a few more entries and good luck "bqf"!
I've probably left it a bit late to switch to something else for this season so suspect I will stay with Ma5da although with the Mk3s. The size of the grids for the Mk1s have put me off a bit - fine round Silverstone but round Brands Indy it gets a bit mad and it's not for the faint hearted!! Will try and organise a test day for the Boxster and even the Ginetta but maybe not until the season starts otherwise suspect I might end up trying to revise my plans!!
I saw an advert a couple of months ago for a £15k Boxster which looked comparatively cheap to me. Not sure why he was selling it but looked like he'd had some decent results in it in his first season of racing. I've also seen a couple of adverts around the £20k mark so I guess they're coming down a bit and that's what was starting to tempt me. Have only seen one G40 for sale recently but quite a few G50s which are ever so tempting but couldn't then afford even the entry fees and can't see many people wanting to share one with a novice!!
I did "arrive and drive" in my first season with the MX5s but bought one for last season. Ignoring the initial outlay, not convinced it was particularly cheaper this way but sort of feel more involved, hence why I'd prefer to own my own car for this season.
I did consider starting off with the Porsches and spoke to a few people about 944s etc. Running costs of £15-20k for a 944 were quoted to me and £30-40k for the front running 968s. I sort of assumed that the Boxster costs would be somewhere in between which at the time looked pretty high for a novice and put me off a bit. Suspect though that in reality they are at the lower end of that range, and the new Production Class I guess will be even cheaper - hope that encourages a few more entries and good luck "bqf"!
I've probably left it a bit late to switch to something else for this season so suspect I will stay with Ma5da although with the Mk3s. The size of the grids for the Mk1s have put me off a bit - fine round Silverstone but round Brands Indy it gets a bit mad and it's not for the faint hearted!! Will try and organise a test day for the Boxster and even the Ginetta but maybe not until the season starts otherwise suspect I might end up trying to revise my plans!!
Winterbroke said:
Will try and organise a test day for the Boxster and even the Ginetta but maybe not until the season starts otherwise suspect I might end up trying to revise my plans!!
You might like to keep an eye on the BRSCC Porsche forum:http://www.porscheracingdrivers.co.uk/forum
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