'Go Racing' pack £65!
Discussion
Why must the MSA overcharge for a piece of paper? I dont need a dvd or a book to read, i just need an application form. The worst part is they expect you to shell out £65 & then you have to pay again to actually get the licence!. All this is forgetting the large sum of £250 that you must pay to someone just so they can tell you what you already know. (does experience count for nothing these days?)
I think this puts the total cost of simply gaining your racing licence somewhere around the £400 mark!. Bloody ridiculous if you ask me. MSA hark on about grass roots motorsport then burn your pockets out before you've even entered your first race.
Please tell me there's a better way.
I think this puts the total cost of simply gaining your racing licence somewhere around the £400 mark!. Bloody ridiculous if you ask me. MSA hark on about grass roots motorsport then burn your pockets out before you've even entered your first race.
Please tell me there's a better way.
As above, I suppose one could argue that if you can't afford 400 quid for your first race licence, then you can't afford to 'Go Racing'.
Perhaps one should look upon it as a part of the test. You know:
What does a waved blue flag mean?
Should you sell your crash helmet to a mate if you've dropped it off a cliff?
Have you got 400 quid?
Because if you can't answer all of these questions correctly - and in spite of your epic drive - you've failed your ARDS test.
Perhaps one should look upon it as a part of the test. You know:
What does a waved blue flag mean?
Should you sell your crash helmet to a mate if you've dropped it off a cliff?
Have you got 400 quid?
Because if you can't answer all of these questions correctly - and in spite of your epic drive - you've failed your ARDS test.
Edited by Count Johnny on Sunday 19th February 07:02
Just because £65 or £400 is a very small amount compared with what you will pay for a season's racing it doesn't mean we should pay it just to prove we can. If you add up the cost of all these nominal fees and items you don't need or are over priced it comes to a hell of a lot of money. Just be cause we can doesn't mean we should have to.
jagracer said:
Just because £65 or £400 is a very small amount compared with what you will pay for a season's racing it doesn't mean we should pay it just to prove we can. If you add up the cost of all these nominal fees and items you don't need or are over priced it comes to a hell of a lot of money. Just be cause we can doesn't mean we should have to.
100% agreeThe Moose said:
Well, as the UK has the largest clubbie scene in the world (apparently!) and the MSA manage it, it's probably one of the best solutions I recon.
Also, I'm not being funny, but £400 is nothing when you look at what you'll be spending throughout a season of racing.
Manage it?, manage what exactly?. The clubs manage themselves & also organise the series that can be raced in. The tracks manage themselves, organise marshalls, ambulances etc. All the MSA do is sanction events & make rules/regs.Also, I'm not being funny, but £400 is nothing when you look at what you'll be spending throughout a season of racing.
"The entire UK club racing scene could exist WITHOUT THE MSA."
Is there anything to stop any group or organisation arranging non sanctioned races? If not then why hasn't anyone done it yet. Are they afraid of some hooligan element turning up & races evolving into destruction derbys?
Lastly who voted the MSA into power this year? I dont remember voting for them do you?
Our UK clubs & tracks are organised enough to hold their own race events, why must we pay for all this bureaucracy?
Edited by Antracer on Sunday 19th February 15:32
Edited by Antracer on Sunday 19th February 15:34
jagracer said:
Just because £65 or £400 is a very small amount compared with what you will pay for a season's racing it doesn't mean we should pay it just to prove we can. If you add up the cost of all these nominal fees and items you don't need or are over priced it comes to a hell of a lot of money. Just be cause we can doesn't mean we should have to.
+1 refoman2 said:
ARDS is a rip off, as after all it does is make sure you know your flags and that you can follow instruction on track with an instructor,it has no bearing whatsoever on your actual ability to drive a car safely on circuit at racing speeds!!!
'Race Licence Tax' springs to mind!
That may apply at some venues, but not all, and I'm talking from experience!!!'Race Licence Tax' springs to mind!
Developing upon what I was saying above (albeit with my tongue in my cheek) in my view, it really is a mistake to expect anything to do with racing to be reasonable and have an intrinsic value (ie £65 for a piece of paper a DVD and a book).
Unless you get over that, you'll be kicking the cat/wife everytime you pay an entry fee; buy a crash helmet; change your hardly used harness (just because the date on it says you will); have your extinguisher refilled when there's nothing wrong with it (the list goes on) and, worst of all, try to sell your racing car for anything like the money (never mind the value of the time) that you've lavished on it.
Anyone who is aware of my works on other fora will tell you that I'm nothing if I'm not anti-establishment but, for the foreseeable future, unless you want to go banger racing with those of a thieving b*stard P*key persuasion, you'll have to bung the MSA some money on an annual basis, so you need to make peace with that fact.
Try reading the 'book' that you've just paid 65 quid for. That should confuse you into a state of acceptance.
Unless you get over that, you'll be kicking the cat/wife everytime you pay an entry fee; buy a crash helmet; change your hardly used harness (just because the date on it says you will); have your extinguisher refilled when there's nothing wrong with it (the list goes on) and, worst of all, try to sell your racing car for anything like the money (never mind the value of the time) that you've lavished on it.
Anyone who is aware of my works on other fora will tell you that I'm nothing if I'm not anti-establishment but, for the foreseeable future, unless you want to go banger racing with those of a thieving b*stard P*key persuasion, you'll have to bung the MSA some money on an annual basis, so you need to make peace with that fact.
Try reading the 'book' that you've just paid 65 quid for. That should confuse you into a state of acceptance.
slightly OT but in the vane of racing costs. Did anyone see the Jonathan Palmer interview in Autosport this week. He made an interesting point about 'the margins in circuit hire' being very slim. And yet MSVR's EBIT was something like 20% of Income. £22m t/o, £5m profit for 2010
It is clear to me now that circuit hire costs are expensive due to corporate greed and not legislation, rates, insurance etc.
So I better stump up the cash then..
It is clear to me now that circuit hire costs are expensive due to corporate greed and not legislation, rates, insurance etc.
So I better stump up the cash then..
Jerry Can said:
slightly OT but in the vane of racing costs. Did anyone see the Jonathan Palmer interview in Autosport this week. He made an interesting point about 'the margins in circuit hire' being very slim. And yet MSVR's EBIT was something like 20% of Income. £22m t/o, £5m profit for 2010
It is clear to me now that circuit hire costs are expensive due to corporate greed and not legislation, rates, insurance etc.
So I better stump up the cash then..
Obviously, we don't know how much of that income and profit comes from "...circuit hire..." and how much comes from other stuff like major race events (you know, the ones that the public actually pay to see) and takings and profits for trackdays, 'experiences', and all of that other tosh.It is clear to me now that circuit hire costs are expensive due to corporate greed and not legislation, rates, insurance etc.
So I better stump up the cash then..
And, TBH, if his making £5m means he has the inclination to provide me with a hot shower, a decent breakfast, and a beer or three in an at-circuit bar in the evening, good luck to him.
Back when I first, briefly, dipped my toe into this racing lark in the mid-eighties, there was no ARDS for people to complain about, so your entry into motor sport depended on your having a car of some sort with very few safety devices and some numbers to stick onto it. I'm not at all sure that this was a preferable arrangement.
And back then, no-one complained about entry fees either but, back then, we dutifully turned up at run down circuits with poor, or non-existent facilities and took a cold shower prior to doing the ten lap races that everyone - including chaps like Foulston in his historic F1 and Can-Am cars and similarly monied types - accepted as the norm.
Again, things have changed such that, these days, everyone is driving themselves nuts calculating exactly how much they're paying per minute of track time and placing much greater pressure on the clubs to give them 24 hour races for a quid.
Personally, I'm that unfit that I'm wearing myself out on the out-lap - never mind how I feel twenty minutes later!
Edited by Count Johnny on Monday 20th February 08:47
Antracer said:
Is there anything to stop any group or organisation arranging non sanctioned races? If not then why hasn't anyone done it yet. Are they afraid of some hooligan element turning up & races evolving into destruction derbys?
Short oval racing (stock cars / bangers etc) is not an MSA discipline, nor is autograss. Antracer said:
Lastly who voted the MSA into power this year? I dont remember voting for them do you?
Our UK clubs & tracks are organised enough to hold their own race events, why must we pay for all this bureaucracy?
There is nothing to stop another organisation setting themselves up, writing a set of general regulations, negotiating insurance cover for competitors, venues and officials, creating and administering a licensing system for competitors, accrediting technical officials and basically doing all the things the MSA currently does. Said organisation will need someone able to explain and defend the technical and safety regulations it promulgates in a coroners court or the high court in the case of a fatality, serious injury or compensation claim, of course. Our UK clubs & tracks are organised enough to hold their own race events, why must we pay for all this bureaucracy?
The only statutory powers the MSA holds are route authorisation of events using the public highway and it does this for everyone, not just member clubs and it is also one of a number of bodies under whose auspices an event on private land can be held which competitors will be exempt from dangerous driving prosecutions.
Count Johnny said:
Obviously, we don't know how much of that income and profit comes from "...circuit hire..." and how much comes from other stuff like major race events (you know, the ones that the public actually pay to see) and takings and profits for trackdays, 'experiences', and all of that other tosh.
And, TBH, if his making £5m means he has the inclination to provide me with a hot shower, a decent breakfast, and a beer or three in an at-circuit bar in the evening, good luck to him.
Back when I first, briefly, dipped my toe into this racing lark in the mid-eighties, there was no ARDS for people to complain about, so your entry into motor sport depended on your having a car of some sort with very few safety devices and some numbers to stick onto it. I'm not at all sure that this was a preferable arrangement.
And back then, no-one complained about entry fees either but, back then, we dutifully turned up at run down circuits with poor, or non-existent facilities and took a cold shower prior to doing the ten lap races that everyone - including chaps like Foulston in his historic F1 and Can-Am cars and similarly monied types - accepted as the norm.
Again, things have changed such that, these days, everyone is driving themselves nuts calculating exactly how much they're paying per minute of track time and placing much greater pressure on the clubs to give them 24 hour races for a quid.
Personally, I'm that unfit that I'm wearing myself out on the out-lap - never mind how I feel twenty minutes later!
i suspect that not much of the profit comes from DTM or Superbike attendances.
However, I race mainly at Lydden, it is a s
thole, there is nothing in the way of creature comforts, the bogs are a hole in the ground, the canteen is a burger bar with free salmonella, and the pub is 4 or 5 miles away. However I need nothing else, and it costs me £100 to enter. The posh restaurants and bogs is not worth the additonal £200 IMHO. And in anycase they are not there for the drivers, they are there for the speccies when the turn up to the DTM etc.
It is a pisstake from the circuits. They all set their prices together.
And, TBH, if his making £5m means he has the inclination to provide me with a hot shower, a decent breakfast, and a beer or three in an at-circuit bar in the evening, good luck to him.
Back when I first, briefly, dipped my toe into this racing lark in the mid-eighties, there was no ARDS for people to complain about, so your entry into motor sport depended on your having a car of some sort with very few safety devices and some numbers to stick onto it. I'm not at all sure that this was a preferable arrangement.
And back then, no-one complained about entry fees either but, back then, we dutifully turned up at run down circuits with poor, or non-existent facilities and took a cold shower prior to doing the ten lap races that everyone - including chaps like Foulston in his historic F1 and Can-Am cars and similarly monied types - accepted as the norm.
Again, things have changed such that, these days, everyone is driving themselves nuts calculating exactly how much they're paying per minute of track time and placing much greater pressure on the clubs to give them 24 hour races for a quid.
Personally, I'm that unfit that I'm wearing myself out on the out-lap - never mind how I feel twenty minutes later!
i suspect that not much of the profit comes from DTM or Superbike attendances.
However, I race mainly at Lydden, it is a s
thole, there is nothing in the way of creature comforts, the bogs are a hole in the ground, the canteen is a burger bar with free salmonella, and the pub is 4 or 5 miles away. However I need nothing else, and it costs me £100 to enter. The posh restaurants and bogs is not worth the additonal £200 IMHO. And in anycase they are not there for the drivers, they are there for the speccies when the turn up to the DTM etc.It is a pisstake from the circuits. They all set their prices together.
Edited by Count Johnny on Monday 20th February 08:47
Jerry Can said:
slightly OT but in the vane of racing costs. Did anyone see the Jonathan Palmer interview in Autosport this week. He made an interesting point about 'the margins in circuit hire' being very slim. And yet MSVR's EBIT was something like 20% of Income. £22m t/o, £5m profit for 2010
It is clear to me now that circuit hire costs are expensive due to corporate greed and not legislation, rates, insurance etc.
So I better stump up the cash then..
Errr I'm actually surprised at how low the profit is. Poor old JP is probably getting raped by the insurance company. It is clear to me now that circuit hire costs are expensive due to corporate greed and not legislation, rates, insurance etc.
So I better stump up the cash then..
How much profit do you think other companies make??
Hi guys... bit harsh I thought so had to wade in with my limited 2p. Only on the second page I found some good feedback on the MSA http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f... - which I whole heartedly concur with.
You look at the stuff they do and events they promote - http://www.gomotorsport.net/ srpings to mind. You then ask yourself would we all be better off if they were simply just some admin clerks who did nothing else, so our renewal fees could be cheaper? Awaiting to be shot down in flames...
You look at the stuff they do and events they promote - http://www.gomotorsport.net/ srpings to mind. You then ask yourself would we all be better off if they were simply just some admin clerks who did nothing else, so our renewal fees could be cheaper? Awaiting to be shot down in flames...
Jerry Can said:
However, I race mainly at Lydden, it is a sthole, there is nothing in the way of creature comforts, the bogs are a hole in the ground, the canteen is a burger bar with free salmonella, and the pub is 4 or 5 miles away. However I need nothing else, and it costs me £100 to enter. The posh restaurants and bogs is not worth the additonal £200 IMHO. And in anycase they are not there for the drivers, they are there for the speccies when the turn up to the DTM etc.
It is a pisstake from the circuits. They all set their prices together.
Call me old fashioned, but I like to have a shower at some point over the course of a weekend (Friday morning through to Sunday night/Monday morning) so I'd like to thank JP for keeping these and his other facilities open long after the spectators have gone home. thole, there is nothing in the way of creature comforts, the bogs are a hole in the ground, the canteen is a burger bar with free salmonella, and the pub is 4 or 5 miles away. However I need nothing else, and it costs me £100 to enter. The posh restaurants and bogs is not worth the additonal £200 IMHO. And in anycase they are not there for the drivers, they are there for the speccies when the turn up to the DTM etc.It is a pisstake from the circuits. They all set their prices together.
And yes, this year, the entry fee for Brands (one of the most expensive circuits) is £330 but - at risk of driving myself nuts calculating exactly how much my track time is costing me - that's for 15 minutes qually and two 20 minute races whereas, I suspect, the entry fee that you are quoting is for the Meridian 14/16 challenge which, I believe, gives you 12 minutes qually and a 10 minute race. From what I can work out, a double header at Lydden costs ~ £225 - so I'm only paying £100 quid for '...posh restaurants and bogs...'.
Each to their own...
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