Race overalls standards 2013

[EventHorizon]

Hi,

Darn MSA changed the rules without good reason imo. Looks very much like they are doing there utmost to kill off grass roots motorsport.
Not impressed.

Anyway i came on here to ask if FIA 1986 standard is still allowed for Hillclimbs?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93755067@N08/85848440...

Here is a photo of the label.

Thanks

[clubracing]

The current FIA standard started in the year 2000, so that suit must be at least 13 years old anyway. FIA 1986 Standard is still accepted for Hill Climbs though.

[robg2]

The main difference between 1986 and 2000 as far as I can tell is that the straps that go over the shoulders are required to take full body weight on 2000. That's most relevant to single seater racing where marshals have the opportunity to pull a driver out from above. So I'd quite happily continue to use my 1986 spec overalls in a saloon car, for instance.
But then as this is PH, you can expect answers along the lines of "newer / more expensive MUST be better"...

[clubracing]

FIA 8856-2000 standard is more rigorous than FIA 1986, so there are safety advantages (maybe only small) in terms of fire protection.

The MSA is hardly 'killing off grass roots motorsport' by expecting competitors to replace their race suit occasionally.

[EventHorizon]

Thanks for the reply's.

The MSA are effectively doubling the start up cost of your first event. Not to mention all the seasoned racers who already own perfectly good fire proof overalls being forced to shell out double what they paid originaly. This makes one of the cheapest forms of competitive motorsport far more expensive to get into than it should be.

Ive been competing & attending sprints & hillclimbs for more than ten years & it all that time ive never seen a car on fire. The risk is very minimal yet the MSA deem it necessary that we have the same clothing as people who race against other cars on the same track. It makes no sense.

The MSA have a bizarre way of attracting young racers to the sport with many of their changes. For instance you cant upgrade from collecting signatures from Rallycross races to a race licence. Even tho you have the experience that counts they expect another £300 for nothing. Not to mention that stupid "go racing pack" which is effectively just an application form dressed up as something bigger.

Basically they are saying unless you earn x amount per year you cant play with us. They only want a certain type of people in the paddock which is a bit snobish if you ask me.

[Dan Friel]

Proban was not allowed from the end of 2011 onwards so I think most have got used to the change. If you need a cheap nomex suit try ebay. I picked up an unused second hand suit for just over £100.

[robg2]

Yes I agree - safety gear isn't actually particularly expensive at the moment, for instance there are some helmets on the market that are (relatively speaking) much better priced than a few years ago.
HANS are still huge money though.

[midgetmax]

When we manufactured our own brand - RG Racewear - 15 years ago we sold them happily at £265 + VAT which is still an average price for an entry level suit today. Stonking value! I met a guy in Gurston paddock recently who was still wearing one of our Norme 86 suits that were 25 years old and still going strong...that explains why I'm not a millionaire!

I also think the MSA threw the baby out with the bath water when they mandated FIA suits for speed events. Blame the Hillclimb and Sprint Committee for sleepwalking into oblivion, if there's anything guaranteed to drive new entrants to the sport into the arms of track day or drifting it's the £500 barrier to entry (helmet, suit, gloves). As a retailer it's not particularly good business - a big hit in one year, but you'll all look after a £300 overall and make it last 25 years whereas speed eventers often changed their £100 Proban suits to suit the new car's colour, or any other spurious reason!

[Mistron]

I have a 'Carrera' suit I bought from GP racewear in 2003. I wore it once, washed it, and it's been in the cupboard ever since. Strangely, in that 10 years it appears to have shrunk around the middle, but not really in the length.....

It's a Nomex III, and has the following stitched into the collar: FIA 1986 standard, 01.231_RAC_98

Am I right in thinking it would still be suitable for Sprints and Hills, but not circuits?

Was going to stick it on Evilbay, but can't actually find out if it can be used on circuits as well as hills.

Any pointers as to where I can confirm this info?

Many thanks,
Al

[PabloTheOrange]

Mistron said:

I have a 'Carrera' suit I bought from GP racewear in 2003. I wore it once, washed it, and it's been in the cupboard ever since. Strangely, in that 10 years it appears to have shrunk around the middle, but not really in the length.....

It's a Nomex III, and has the following stitched into the collar: FIA 1986 standard, 01.231_RAC_98

Am I right in thinking it would still be suitable for Sprints and Hills, but not circuits?

Was going to stick it on Evilbay, but can't actually find out if it can be used on circuits as well as hills.

Any pointers as to where I can confirm this info?

Many thanks,
Al

From Section K of the Blue Book:

MSA said:

9.1. Clean Flame-Resistant overalls, must be worn. Flame resistant overalls may be manufactured from Nomex III, Proban or equivalent materials.

Acceptable standards:
9.1.1. Racing:
FIA 8856-2000

9.1.2. Special Stage Rallies, Sprints and Hill Climbs:
FIA 8856-2000
FIA 1986 Standard

9.1.3. Karting:
As defined in U.13.3.

9.1.4. All Other Events (including overalls in accordance with Q.13.1.2):
BS6249 part 1 Index A or B (but not part C).
BSEN533
EN533:1995 Index 3
ISO 14116
FIA 8856-2000
FIA 1986 Standard.
9.1.5. For FIA Standard Overalls the homologation label will be stitched into the fabric of the garment or on a sewn in label. For International use overalls must
comply with: FIA 8856-2000.

Hope that helps.

[Mistron]

Many thanks!

Al

[woof]

If anyone is looking to get a new suit - I got one custom made and made to measure this year. Worked out the same price as an off the shelf suit. And the suit is the lightest FIA suit you can have. Made by a company called FreeM. A good mate of mine is the agent here in the UK - so yes I'm giving him a plug - but it's a great suit and is so much more comfortable than the sparcos/arrowstars etc.


PM for more details

[29james12]

You also have to remember that the new 8856-2000 spec is better than the old 86 spec and that is the main reason for changing it. Also don't forget that the amount of times that 86 suit has been washed probably hasn't done it any favors. I don't think that £300 is a bad price for a suit, most people complain about spending that on a suit but are happy to spend £10k plus on an engine. Say you used your suit 6 times a year that £50 per event if the suit lasts you 5 years which it should if you look after it that £10 a year. Not bad really i bet you would spend more than that on tyres.

[midgetmax]

Its not actually It's different and more formalised (read expensive to undertake), but heat resistance time is the same. In the old terminology 12 seconds before it hurts. Not much is it?

[normal bloke]

EventHorizon said:

Thanks for the reply's.

The MSA are effectively doubling the start up cost of your first event. Not to mention all the seasoned racers who already own perfectly good fire proof overalls being forced to shell out double what they paid originaly. This makes one of the cheapest forms of competitive motorsport far more expensive to get into than it should be.

Ive been competing & attending sprints & hillclimbs for more than ten years & it all that time ive never seen a car on fire. The risk is very minimal yet the MSA deem it necessary that we have the same clothing as people who race against other cars on the same track. It makes no sense.

The MSA have a bizarre way of attracting young racers to the sport with many of their changes. For instance you cant upgrade from collecting signatures from Rallycross races to a race licence. Even tho you have the experience that counts they expect another £300 for nothing. Not to mention that stupid "go racing pack" which is effectively just an application form dressed up as something bigger.

Basically they are saying unless you earn x amount per year you cant play with us. They only want a certain type of people in the paddock which is a bit snobish if you ask me.

I agree with everything you say except the "certain type of people" observation. Judging by the language, dress sense and general demeanour of many motorsport competitors, money and having lots of it is certainly no guarantee of a better type of person. Indeed quite the opposite, as money does not buy you class..