Datalogger / Camera

[Notshortnottall]

I've been looking at getting one / both of these for the racer but would appreciate some feedback from people that have used them.

I initially looked at a Go-Pro HR Hero as a camera however I then began to look into the realms of data-logging. Race Technology DL1/DL2 seem to be decent and have attachable camera functions.

I'm a bit lost in the mire of options so would be grateful from some reviews / opinions / musings as to what to go for.

I do want data-logging facilities plus a clear camera (front is a must, rear preferable but not essential).

Cheers

[phatgixer]

I use the VBox and it is a great datalogger. Trouble is the 3 cameras I have with it are only 480 rez ( is about 2 years old)

Not sure if they do higher rez cameras now.

Good analysis software and the videos are nicely compressed so you can get a decent long recording on a 8gB card.

[geeks]

One of our guys runs a Vbox system. Not sure which cameras he uses but i would guess they are also 480.

Take a look at this for video sample. Clicky Here!

[phatgixer]

This was a trackday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xtcsbtPus4

and this is what Barcelona looks like at night with the vbox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B4oRDZMNXw

[phatgixer]

geeks said:

One of our guys runs a Vbox system. Not sure which cameras he uses but i would guess they are also 480.

Take a look at this for video sample. Clicky Here!

I enjoyed that! Max attack!

[Graham]

dl1 with a go pro the control lead with hd video locence would get my vote.

great little data logger and a fantastic camera, with the lead that syncs everythng together and the loger software now supporting native video format so no conversion before import 2 great bits of kit that you can use together or separately.


has the advantage you can use the camera a standalone of other things too.,

[spyderman8]

I have a 2-camera VBox Lite setup but as stated its only 480p resolution. The big advantage is that its a lot easier and quicker to set up and use than the DL1 or Video4 system. IMHO. If you're willing to put some effort into post-processing, you could use a GoPro HD and a separate data logging solution like the DL1 or even a smart phone/GPS receiver combination. Depend a bit on what your priorities are: data or video.

[geeks]

phatgixer said:

geeks said:

One of our guys runs a Vbox system. Not sure which cameras he uses but i would guess they are also 480.

Take a look at this for video sample. Clicky Here!

I enjoyed that! Max attack!

Indeed he was unlucky in race one and had to start at the back, normally a front running guy, from memory he did 22 cars in a 13min +1 lap race finished 9th!

[Shaun_E]

If you want combined Video and Data then there are 3 suppliers:
Racelogic with the Vbox range, Race Technology with the Video4/DL1 products and Race Keeper.
There are other ways to do it using separate products for video and data but even with the software available now it isn't "plug and play".
I've looked at all 3 products and in the end, for my requirements, the Race Keeper is the best compromise. It's not perfect but I pull the SD card out and insert in laptop, import files and can then immediately see Video plus Data, properly synchronised with no fiddling about. The software is pretty straightforward and you can add overlays afterwards (speedo, G meter, track map, etc.)
Vbox is as good but slightly more expensive spec for spec and, as I understand it, doesn't have built in accelerometers so relies completely on GPS. Overlays have to be decided on beforehand and are recorded onto the video which I didn't like although some people prefer this.
I ran a standalone DL1 for a while and never really got on with the software. I could have added the Video 4 to it but then would have had 2 boxes to fit in the car.
None of the suppliers use anything other than standard definition video - they all promise HD is coming but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.
The GoPro synch with DL1 looks promising but also has some compromises. You have to load video and data separately although the synch looks fairly straightforward. If you must have HD video and data then I think this is probably the simplest route.
My car is a Caterham so I need a water proof system and that adds to the cost! If you have a tin-top then it's less of an issue.

[Cheburator mk2]

And if you are a tight git like me - iPhone 5, suitable mount, Harry's Lap Timer Grand Prix version and Dual 5Hz external GPS receiver. Works a treat and can control external Go-Pros...

[nsa]

If you want to start small the QStarz BT 1000 is a great 10hz GPS with data-logging software for £130. From there you can progress to VBOX if the bug catches. I've referred to this many times here but only because the QStarz is a bargain for what it does. You'll have to synchronise video yourself though.

[spyderman8]

Correct - VBox uses GPS and not accelerometers.

5Hz GPS sample rate isn't really high enough.

You can tie some iPhone or Android mobile apps into the car's OBDII bus via wireless or Bluetooth dongle and grab some data like revs, although I understand the same rate is a bit low. Pro systems like VBox can be tied into the CANBUS.

[jeffw]

I use a 4 camera Video4 system with 20Hz GPS. The data and video are combined directly onto the SD card and give results like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EtGLnJ7kWs&fea...

I'm still playing with the dataoverlay and video positions. I've actually removed the DL1 from the car as this Video4 effectively replaces it and connects to the Dash2 and Omex ECU.

The DL1 Sport and GoPro seems like a decent option but all it does is signal the GoPro to record when the DL1 Sport is logging. Race Technology also have a third party video sync system which can link to a DL1 and produce results like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSAXrPgxgYI&lis...

The difference is there is a lot of post production work required to combine the video and data together but you can now get 1080p output.

The DL1/Video Sync or DL1 Sport/Gopro is significantly less cost than the Video4 and both are capable of producing HD video which the Video4 is not. I am told the reason that Vbox and Video4 systems are not HD is to do with the cameras that are required for Motorsport and the need to not interlace the image and this is why, if you look at some onboard video, that you get this wave effect on the recording.

[geeks]

spyderman8 said:

Correct - VBox uses GPS and not accelerometers.

5Hz GPS sample rate isn't really high enough.

You can tie some iPhone or Android mobile apps into the car's OBDII bus via wireless or Bluetooth dongle and grab some data like revs, although I understand the same rate is a bit low. Pro systems like VBox can be tied into the CANBUS.

I have a question (and i will confess to having not done a full read up) if they do not have accelerometers then how does it work the G rating out?

[Shaun_E]

Race-Keeper footage here.
I've only got one camera set up at the moment and it doesn't connect to my Emerald ECU (although it can connect to some other ECUs).
The Video4 footage above looks pretty good.

[Maxx]

geeks said:

I have a question (and i will confess to having not done a full read up) if they do not have accelerometers then how does it work the G rating out?

If no accelerometers then GPS speed and GPS heading are used to calculate lateral and longitudinal g. Gives similar general curves but is not actually measuring anything so of no use for anything that requires 'actual' figures.

Maxx

[Maxx]

Shaun_E said:

None of the suppliers use anything other than standard definition video - they all promise HD is coming but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

Some great info from Shaun in his responses. The thing is there is currently no viable option for multi-cam, all-in-one data & HD video as there isn't such a thing as a standalone HD bulletcam. Race-Technologies solution is to allow GoPro (or in fact, any HD) video to be sync'd with the data such that you can a) Use it for analysis within the analysis software and b) use it to export data-overlayed video. There is a sync cable options, plus a visual 'cue' option, a date-time offset option and a manual sync option.

I've used the manual sync option and the first one probably took close to 15mins but I can now do it within about 3 minutes. You could pick the moment in the video the car moves off, and pick the same spot in the data based on speed or long-g. I then play the video/data trace and you can refine based on gearchanges which show up visually, audibly and on the long-g data.

Here is an example of the resulting video although it has been downscaled quite a bit from what is possible, exported from analysis software in fast mode 1080p @ 3000kbps. I then reduced it to 720 in editing software, really not worth going higher for Youtube IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0USj3vsiHWc

Or this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNObAlQral0

(You'll need to select the 720p option to see in best quality)

You do actually lose some quality using the low bitrate export and downscale to 720p, you can see the dash is much sharper here which has been upload at 1080p with GoPros default bitrate of 20,000kbps (although Youtube will only store, hence display at around 4,000kbps max)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IWBe7jgbk

(Select 1080p to see this at it's best)

Multicam SD from the VIDEO4 can look reasonable if you crop to widescreen and encode at 'psuedo' 720p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILkmubQuwxc

(again, select 720p) to view at best quality)
It really depends on what you want from 'the system'.

If you are looking for data & video for analysis with multi-cams then you have Shauns list above, all are capable of exporting SD video with varying levels of flexibility vs. simplicity. RT have the 3rd party HD video integration option.

If HD video with data overlay is the important aspect and your chosen data-logger doesn't have a way to tie these together then there is a product called Trackvision which can take the output from most data-loggers, even Phone/PDA ones and allow you to manually sync with HD or SD video and produce very good looking data overlayed video. It's quite a mature product now and actually dropped in price recently to $149.

If you have the DL1+3rd Party Video License product you don't need Trackvision as this essentially what it does but just with DL1 data as well as being able to use the video in the analysis software for lap comparison.

The sync option is still an extra step, irrespective of how you do it but things will get simpler soon as i'm told the next GoPro will store GPS time alongside the video (as many of the roadhawk type cameras do). As data-loggers also have access to GPS time which is standard and world-wide, syncing will be virtually automatic.

Maxx

Edited by Maxx on Tuesday 30th July 21:38

[jeffw]

I'm never convinced that turning Video4 into psuedo 720p improves it. The Video Sync cable used with the DL1 used to be able to automatically sync video and data (it looks for an LED in shot from the Video Sync cable which starts and ends when the datalogger is active). However since 8.5 this no longer works and you have to do it manually but on the plus side you can do full 1080p now.

[phatgixer]

Phuck me Maxx, you drive some old tut! (Lotus aside!)

[Maxx]

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