Autotesters - Your club's class rules?
Discussion
To anyone that competes in an autotest/autosolo championship in the UK, I am interested to hear how your classes are split up.
The championship I compete in has 5 classes.
1. Standard < 1400cc
2. Standard > 1400cc
3. Modified < 1400cc
4. Modified > 1400cc
5. Specials.
The problem is that the line in the sand for modified is ridiculous and means a bog standard 1.6 Fiesta with a set of fox alloys and cheap package deal tyres is lumped in class 4 alongside stripped out, caged up, slick shod rally cars.
Currently looking at at adding an intermediate 'street modified' class where no weight removal and list 1a tyres only are permitted. Just wondering how other clubs organise their classes to see if we can arrange a better structure for ours. Does yours work well? Do the classes represent a fair split in numbers and performance?
The championship I compete in has 5 classes.
1. Standard < 1400cc
2. Standard > 1400cc
3. Modified < 1400cc
4. Modified > 1400cc
5. Specials.
The problem is that the line in the sand for modified is ridiculous and means a bog standard 1.6 Fiesta with a set of fox alloys and cheap package deal tyres is lumped in class 4 alongside stripped out, caged up, slick shod rally cars.
Currently looking at at adding an intermediate 'street modified' class where no weight removal and list 1a tyres only are permitted. Just wondering how other clubs organise their classes to see if we can arrange a better structure for ours. Does yours work well? Do the classes represent a fair split in numbers and performance?
Edited by Kozy on Tuesday 13th August 10:52
Ilkley & DMC regs are,
Class 1 – FE FWD Series Production cars up to 1300cc
Class 2 – FE FWD Series Production cars over 1300cc
Class 3 – RWD Series Production cars
Class 4 – Production Kit Cars, Kit Cars, Sports Cars and Specials*
Class 5– 4WD Production cars, to a maximum kerb weight of 1330kg.
Class 6 - Rally cars with an MSA log book.
A list of definitions for Series Production car / Production Kit car / Kit Car and Sports car can be obtained from the IDMC web page / car comps secretary or event secretary.
Class 1 – FE FWD Series Production cars up to 1300cc
Class 2 – FE FWD Series Production cars over 1300cc
Class 3 – RWD Series Production cars
Class 4 – Production Kit Cars, Kit Cars, Sports Cars and Specials*
Class 5– 4WD Production cars, to a maximum kerb weight of 1330kg.
Class 6 - Rally cars with an MSA log book.
A list of definitions for Series Production car / Production Kit car / Kit Car and Sports car can be obtained from the IDMC web page / car comps secretary or event secretary.
- A car which does not have a standard body shell, majority of interior trim, seats, glass and does not have running gear, fuel tank or battery in the manufacturers location. Plus any vehicle with a hydraulic handbrake
Also note Ilkleys classes are split by Expert and Novice too. Do they work well?, not sure I've never done one yet, but they look about right to me. I think it better to split FWD from RWD as the technique is soo much different. Purpose built specials need splitting from the standard(ish) cars too.
velocemitch said:
Also note Ilkleys classes are split by Expert and Novice too. Do they work well?, not sure I've never done one yet, but they look about right to me. I think it better to split FWD from RWD as the technique is soo much different. Purpose built specials need splitting from the standard(ish) cars too.
Our problem is that that we regularly have 30-40 entries for the tarmac events.Of these, there are:
No entries for class 1.
3-4 in class 2 (Three people driving 2 standard MX5s, plus the occasional S2000)
5-6 people in class 3 (all minis)
5-6 people in class 5 (specials)
Which leaves around 25 entries in class 4. There are only ever about 3 people in contention for the class win, which leaves 20+ people with no chance of winning anything unless they spend a lot more money on their vehicles and/or make them impractical for road use.
The current club committee claim this is working just fine. I'm not sure personally, which is why I am proposing some changes for next season, mainly aimed at splitting class four down the middle while ensuring the minis stay in their own class as they are pretty unbeatable.
The FWD/RWD split is an interesting one however they are equally as fast as each other at our events, so I'm not sure it would achieve the goal. Worth a look though.
Edited by Kozy on Tuesday 13th August 13:17
Here's some more from the SD34 Motorsport Group,
http://sd34msg.org.uk/
Non-Race/Rally:
a) Classes are as follows
A Saloons up to 13 feet overall length and up to and including 1400cc
B Saloons up to 13 feet overall length and over 1400cc
C Saloons over 13 feet overall length and up to and including 1600cc
D Saloons over 13 feet overall length and over 1600cc
(Saloons will include Estate cars, Hatchbacks and Commercials as appropriate.)
E Sports cars
F Specials
G Special Stage Rally Cars
Forgot about the IDMC Nov/Exp split, but as Ian says they seem about right.
http://sd34msg.org.uk/
Non-Race/Rally:
a) Classes are as follows
A Saloons up to 13 feet overall length and up to and including 1400cc
B Saloons up to 13 feet overall length and over 1400cc
C Saloons over 13 feet overall length and up to and including 1600cc
D Saloons over 13 feet overall length and over 1600cc
(Saloons will include Estate cars, Hatchbacks and Commercials as appropriate.)
E Sports cars
F Specials
G Special Stage Rally Cars
Forgot about the IDMC Nov/Exp split, but as Ian says they seem about right.
Kozy said:
velocemitch said:
Also note Ilkleys classes are split by Expert and Novice too. Do they work well?, not sure I've never done one yet, but they look about right to me. I think it better to split FWD from RWD as the technique is soo much different. Purpose built specials need splitting from the standard(ish) cars too.
Our problem is that that we regularly have 30-40 entries for the tarmac events.Of these, there are:
No entries for class 1.
3-4 in class 2 (Three people driving 2 standard MX5s, plus the occasional S2000)
5-6 people in class 3 (all minis)
5-6 people in class 5 (specials)
Which leaves around 25 entries in class 4. There are only ever about 3 people in contention for the class win, which leaves 20+ people with no chance of winning anything unless they spend a lot more money on their vehicles and/or make them impractical for road use.
The current club committee claim this is working just fine. I'm not sure personally, which is why I am proposing some changes for next season, mainly aimed at splitting class four down the middle while ensuring the minis stay in their own class as they are pretty unbeatable.
The FWD/RWD split is an interesting one however they are equally as fast as each other at our events, so I'm not sure it would achieve the goal. Worth a look though.
Edited by Kozy on Tuesday 13th August 13:17
I can see why the Club doesn't want to change it though, if they are getting a strong entries then it aint broke so don't fix it.
One of the problems with many forms of motorsport (if indeed it is a problem??) is that same people keep winning, usually because they are just very good at it.
Sorry Kozy, just read your first post more carefully, class 4 is the modified class. The modifications which are not contributing to performance should be ignored in my mind.
I've seen a similar problem with a Sprint series I was contemplating, I would have been classed with the racing cars just because I had a roll cage, even though my Car was mechanically standard and with full interior. I didn't bother.
I've seen a similar problem with a Sprint series I was contemplating, I would have been classed with the racing cars just because I had a roll cage, even though my Car was mechanically standard and with full interior. I didn't bother.
It might be worth looking at the MG car club for guidance here, while the competitions side is now a dying breed it used to be a major part of the club and had some extremely competitive events.
SWB sports (midgets/mx5s)
LWB sports (MGBs and the like, sports cars but less nimble ones)
FWD
Saloons
Vintage
Specials (kit cars and cars heavily modified, LSDs, Hydraulic handbrakes etc.)
That way the minis will be in their own class, anyone choosing a non mini small fwd car would be competing against standardish minis. Big cars will compete with themselves. Autotest specials including fwd and rwd, fwd usually being cut down novas and minis and rwd being Midgets/mx5s/locosts etc. Can compete among themselves. Small lightweight rwd sports cars which are reasonably evenly matched can compete and larger sports cars will generally be an undersubscribed class but you never know.
I suspect that classing system would spread your membership a lot more due to much stricter treatment of specials but not putting otherwise standard cars up against them.
SWB sports (midgets/mx5s)
LWB sports (MGBs and the like, sports cars but less nimble ones)
FWD
Saloons
Vintage
Specials (kit cars and cars heavily modified, LSDs, Hydraulic handbrakes etc.)
That way the minis will be in their own class, anyone choosing a non mini small fwd car would be competing against standardish minis. Big cars will compete with themselves. Autotest specials including fwd and rwd, fwd usually being cut down novas and minis and rwd being Midgets/mx5s/locosts etc. Can compete among themselves. Small lightweight rwd sports cars which are reasonably evenly matched can compete and larger sports cars will generally be an undersubscribed class but you never know.
I suspect that classing system would spread your membership a lot more due to much stricter treatment of specials but not putting otherwise standard cars up against them.
Kozy said:
To anyone that competes in an autotest/autosolo championship in the UK, I am interested to hear how your classes are split up.
The championship I compete in has 5 classes.
1. Standard < 1400cc
2. Standard > 1400cc
3. Modified < 1400cc
4. Modified > 1400cc
5. Specials.
The problem is that the line in the sand for modified is ridiculous and means a bog standard 1.6 Fiesta with a set of fox alloys and cheap package deal tyres is lumped in class 4 alongside stripped out, caged up, slick shod rally cars.
Currently looking at at adding an intermediate 'street modified' class where no weight removal and list 1a tyres only are permitted. Just wondering how other clubs organise their classes to see if we can arrange a better structure for ours. Does yours work well? Do the classes represent a fair split in numbers and performance?
My Club Bristol Motor Club support ASWMC Autosolos here in the South West. The next event at Blanford, is part of the ASWMC with Bournmouth and Woolbridge Clubs. The Classes are drawn up as follows: The championship I compete in has 5 classes.
1. Standard < 1400cc
2. Standard > 1400cc
3. Modified < 1400cc
4. Modified > 1400cc
5. Specials.
The problem is that the line in the sand for modified is ridiculous and means a bog standard 1.6 Fiesta with a set of fox alloys and cheap package deal tyres is lumped in class 4 alongside stripped out, caged up, slick shod rally cars.
Currently looking at at adding an intermediate 'street modified' class where no weight removal and list 1a tyres only are permitted. Just wondering how other clubs organise their classes to see if we can arrange a better structure for ours. Does yours work well? Do the classes represent a fair split in numbers and performance?
Edited by Kozy on Tuesday 13th August 10:52
Each event will consist of 6 classes as follows:
A: Series Production Cars – Saloon/ Estate Cars up to 1400 cc
B: Series Production Cars – Saloon/Estate Cars 1401 to 2000cc
C: Series Production Cars – Saloon/Estate Cars over 2000cc
D: Series Production Sports Cars
E: Specialist Production Sports Cars and Kit Cars (Lotus, VX220, Caterham and Westfield) etc, and any other vehicle
not eligible for Classes A, B, C or D.
F: Invitation Class - By invitation from the organisers only, not eligible for any award other than class.
ONLY List 1A tyres are permitted for ALL classes and 1A tyres must still be road legal after the event to which ALL cars have to be driven to.
Hope that helps?
Trev
In the South east (weather permitting) we run alot of grass autotests. Typical class rules are:
A. Front wheel drive Touring Cars up to and including 12ft overall length.
B. Front wheel drive Touring Cars over 12ft overall length.
C. Rear wheel drive Touring Cars and all sports cars
D. Specials
E. Four Wheel Drive Series Production Touring Cars
J. Production Car Autotest, for Junior Drivers. – Aged 14 to 17 who do not hold a full RTA
Licence. All vehicles competing in this class must be by definition “a Touring Car” Whilst
competing, one passenger must be carried, in each car, who holds a full RTA Licence, is a
full member of one of the invited clubs and is experienced in Autotesting.
All vehicle lengths will be taken as stated in the “Parkers Car Price Guide” or if not quoted, the
manufacturers specification.
All vehicles must comply with the MSA Technical Regulations, and be fitted with road pattern tyres only.
Any vehicle fitted with tyres which the organisers deem unsuitable will not be allowed to compete.
THIS MEANS NO KNOBBLIES !
here is the last set of results and a typical diagram :- http://www.mmkmc.co.uk/documents/2013/documents/re...
the fwd/rwd split is important due to the handling dynamics especially with the very tight stuff and traction, generally the FTD will be set by a car in class A or B. we dont have that many autoest specials (cut down mini) that often but they do appear from time to time.
The novice/expert class structure as mentioned above is a good one and I'll put that forward for next year. It gives newcomers to the club/sport someting to aim at instead of being put in a class with a multiple BTRDA championship winner!
Steve
A. Front wheel drive Touring Cars up to and including 12ft overall length.
B. Front wheel drive Touring Cars over 12ft overall length.
C. Rear wheel drive Touring Cars and all sports cars
D. Specials
E. Four Wheel Drive Series Production Touring Cars
J. Production Car Autotest, for Junior Drivers. – Aged 14 to 17 who do not hold a full RTA
Licence. All vehicles competing in this class must be by definition “a Touring Car” Whilst
competing, one passenger must be carried, in each car, who holds a full RTA Licence, is a
full member of one of the invited clubs and is experienced in Autotesting.
All vehicle lengths will be taken as stated in the “Parkers Car Price Guide” or if not quoted, the
manufacturers specification.
All vehicles must comply with the MSA Technical Regulations, and be fitted with road pattern tyres only.
Any vehicle fitted with tyres which the organisers deem unsuitable will not be allowed to compete.
THIS MEANS NO KNOBBLIES !
here is the last set of results and a typical diagram :- http://www.mmkmc.co.uk/documents/2013/documents/re...
the fwd/rwd split is important due to the handling dynamics especially with the very tight stuff and traction, generally the FTD will be set by a car in class A or B. we dont have that many autoest specials (cut down mini) that often but they do appear from time to time.
The novice/expert class structure as mentioned above is a good one and I'll put that forward for next year. It gives newcomers to the club/sport someting to aim at instead of being put in a class with a multiple BTRDA championship winner!
Steve
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