Time to reduce noise limits
Discussion
Maybe its time various championships reduce the upper dba levels off thier own back with Mallory closing and other circuits having issues isn't it time to react before its too late?.
Something must be done to safegaurd our beloved sport i just don't see the point running cars at 118 or 114 dba wen most can be mapped to run a lot lower yes its great to hear the sound of a high powered racing car but is it worth putting the existence of Circuits in the uk at risk??
Something must be done to safegaurd our beloved sport i just don't see the point running cars at 118 or 114 dba wen most can be mapped to run a lot lower yes its great to hear the sound of a high powered racing car but is it worth putting the existence of Circuits in the uk at risk??
I really don't accept the problem is the odd noisy race day, IMHO it is the constant use of the circuits for track days - friends who live near Oulton, are I suspect not untypical, when they say the racing is fine and what they expected when they moved in 25 years ago, but the expansion of track days in recent years causing lower but regular noise is a real annoyance.
Being a luddite myself, I love the sound of an unsilenced racing engine and these days I really only race or spectate where I can enjoy the full fat experience - if this was to go I suspect, like many others, it would be the final straw and I would stop taking part.
Being a luddite myself, I love the sound of an unsilenced racing engine and these days I really only race or spectate where I can enjoy the full fat experience - if this was to go I suspect, like many others, it would be the final straw and I would stop taking part.
Kickstart said:
I really don't accept the problem is the odd noisy race day, IMHO it is the constant use of the circuits for track days - friends who live near Oulton, are I suspect not untypical, when they say the racing is fine and what they expected when they moved in 25 years ago, but the expansion of track days in recent years causing lower but regular noise is a real annoyance.
Being a luddite myself, I love the sound of an unsilenced racing engine and these days I really only race or spectate where I can enjoy the full fat experience - if this was to go I suspect, like many others, it would be the final straw and I would stop taking part.
I simply don't agree if you're passionate about your sport you would still take part as many others would ,we still support Castle Combe now its been 'watered down' to max 108dba the problem here was not the trackdays but the one weekend a year that F3/GT once graced the circuit it was not only the GT's some which were over 118dba but also the drone of the Brit F3 that pissed off the local nimbys all 5 of em.Being a luddite myself, I love the sound of an unsilenced racing engine and these days I really only race or spectate where I can enjoy the full fat experience - if this was to go I suspect, like many others, it would be the final straw and I would stop taking part.
Yes some of the reason why combe doesn't attract top class motorsport is due to lack of facilities some which are basic imo but thats another story,i just glad the local council saw sense and ageed to let the motorsport continue most of the locals don't have a problem with the circuit running at 108dba.
I think it's something the MSA an championship organisers should at least look into.
I do agree that the problem has increased with the number and type of events the circuits are running, during the last trackday I did at brands hatch we popped down to the local bakers, as somone who enjoys Motorsport I felt quite sorry for any locals as the noise from the drift day in the far paddock was ridiculous. Non stop tyres stretching for a good part of the day, I doubt this was going on years ago when some of the locals would have moved to the area.
I do agree that the problem has increased with the number and type of events the circuits are running, during the last trackday I did at brands hatch we popped down to the local bakers, as somone who enjoys Motorsport I felt quite sorry for any locals as the noise from the drift day in the far paddock was ridiculous. Non stop tyres stretching for a good part of the day, I doubt this was going on years ago when some of the locals would have moved to the area.
I too am sure it is the track day/drift escalation that has pissed people off. I live a few miles from Croft and before the last restrictions kicked in I was genuinely shocked at the level of noise from track day bikers which was audible several miles away. I too love the sound of unsilenced racers, having grown up in the era when everything was unsilenced but I cannot even begin to justify inflicting noise on residents day in and day out, as seems to be a part of the Mallory issue . Of course there is the lazy and tired option of branding everybody a Nimby who dares to voice concern but deep down we are all potential nimbies at heart. Traveller site near my village? Fracking ? Bail Hostel? HS2- no bloody way...
I feel unsilenced racing is a thing of the past back in the day 60's/70's wen most cars did run like this the thing is there are too many ways for those who don't approve of the noise to stir things up and one comment i did hear from a guy who lives just down the road from Castle Combe who had a new neighbour [using the house as a weekend retreat] who said isn't there a Circuit around here? he said yes just down the road, the guy didn't realise it was that close 'oh we'll get that stopped then'which he didn't take too kindly too hence doesn't speak to the neighbour anymore and the word NIMBY comes to mind,its people like that make my blood boil!
Castle Combe was not typical really. The five complainants were led by a Peer of the realm who used his influence to force the council to do what it did not want to. There was no complaints from the village of Combe it was from Yatton Kennel which is a few miles away. When you have friends in high places the will of the elected members are over ridden.
What is needed is common sense. I do not know of any other country where people who move next to established operations can be taken seriously when they complain.
I have a branch which has been operating for over 20 years and getting deliveries at 3.00am every day for that 20 years without issue fully compliant with licence etc.
This summer a new resident moved into the social housing and has complained. Now Eniviromental health are involved measuring noise etc. They should have no way to cause such uproar when moving into an area where operations are established. It is the same laws that you get idiots wanting church bells silenced as they want a lie in.
What is needed is common sense. I do not know of any other country where people who move next to established operations can be taken seriously when they complain.
I have a branch which has been operating for over 20 years and getting deliveries at 3.00am every day for that 20 years without issue fully compliant with licence etc.
This summer a new resident moved into the social housing and has complained. Now Eniviromental health are involved measuring noise etc. They should have no way to cause such uproar when moving into an area where operations are established. It is the same laws that you get idiots wanting church bells silenced as they want a lie in.
Kickstart said:
I really don't accept the problem is the odd noisy race day, IMHO it is the constant use of the circuits for track days - friends who live near Oulton, are I suspect not untypical, when they say the racing is fine and what they expected when they moved in 25 years ago, but the expansion of track days in recent years causing lower but regular noise is a real annoyance.
Oulton is only allowed to run four days a week (other than road silenced stuff), I can't imagine there was much less running there 25 years ago or that it was as well monitored and controlled as it is today.Also worth considering that Mallory was given enough days to run racing but they couldn't pay the bills that way, trackdays and other events are what keep circuits open.
No its not time to do this. Its time to stop people from complaining when they move somewhere that for decades has supplied the community with jobs and income. Once they drop it to XX db, then a bit lower and a bit lower it will remove many of the circuits from popular series as the competitors leave due to their cars failing noise tests. Be quiet then!
I still get annoyed that a car can be legal to drive on the road yet deemed to loud on a circuit. Just daft.
I still get annoyed that a car can be legal to drive on the road yet deemed to loud on a circuit. Just daft.
Sorry but you are reacting to a tired argument- that it is only people who have moved near a circuit who complain. No industry has carte blanche to do what it wants when it wants and why should circuits be the exception? Look at Mallory for an example- many people who are complaining have lived there for years . Why ? Because the circuit has allegedly flagrantly broken the planning constraints it operates under.
spaximus said:
Castle Combe was not typical really. The five complainants were led by a Peer of the realm who used his influence to force the council to do what it did not want to. There was no complaints from the village of Combe it was from Yatton Kennel which is a few miles away. When you have friends in high places the will of the elected members are over ridden.
What is needed is common sense. I do not know of any other country where people who move next to established operations can be taken seriously when they complain.
I have a branch which has been operating for over 20 years and getting deliveries at 3.00am every day for that 20 years without issue fully compliant with licence etc.
This summer a new resident moved into the social housing and has complained. Now Eniviromental health are involved measuring noise etc. They should have no way to cause such uproar when moving into an area where operations are established. It is the same laws that you get idiots wanting church bells silenced as they want a lie in.
Absolutely agree with you. "Was the noisy thing there before you? Yes? Then STFU."What is needed is common sense. I do not know of any other country where people who move next to established operations can be taken seriously when they complain.
I have a branch which has been operating for over 20 years and getting deliveries at 3.00am every day for that 20 years without issue fully compliant with licence etc.
This summer a new resident moved into the social housing and has complained. Now Eniviromental health are involved measuring noise etc. They should have no way to cause such uproar when moving into an area where operations are established. It is the same laws that you get idiots wanting church bells silenced as they want a lie in.
The only caveat I would add is that if there has been a significant change in volume or frequency then it would be fair to check that they are within reason.
Someone moving next to a circuit/airport/church has, in my view, no right to complain about noise at all. If you don't want to live somewhere where those noises occur, there are plenty of other locations across the UK you could choose.
micron750 said:
Maybe its time various championships reduce the upper dba levels off thier own back with Mallory closing and other circuits having issues isn't it time to react before its too late?.
Something must be done to safegaurd our beloved sport i just don't see the point running cars at 118 or 114 dba wen most can be mapped to run a lot lower yes its great to hear the sound of a high powered racing car but is it worth putting the existence of Circuits in the uk at risk??
this problem has been ongoing now for 20+ years but year on year out Motorsport and manufacturers have largely ignored the noise problem!Something must be done to safegaurd our beloved sport i just don't see the point running cars at 118 or 114 dba wen most can be mapped to run a lot lower yes its great to hear the sound of a high powered racing car but is it worth putting the existence of Circuits in the uk at risk??
yes we all love to hear noisy cars,but do we want any racing or none at all? its about time the upper reaches of the Motorsport world acted as at the end of the day they are the ones who are making the most noise!
I can understand where residents are coming from though,earlier this year I went to pick a vehicle up from about 6/7 miles away from Thruxton just as the BSB bikes went out for their warm up and if you hadn't known better you would have thought they were a couple of hundred yards away,ridiculously loud!
but as others have said,the circuits don't help themselves with the amount of track days they run,yes I understand they have to make the circuit a viable business option but they also need to realise not to take the piss also!
spaximus said:
Castle Combe was not typical really. The five complainants were led by a Peer of the realm who used his influence to force the council to do what it did not want to. There was no complaints from the village of Combe it was from Yatton Kennel which is a few miles away. When you have friends in high places the will of the elected members are over ridden.
Yatton Keynell is closer to the circuit than Castle Combe village. Turn right as you come out of Quarry gate from the track, about three to four hundred metres and you're there. It is certainly not "a few miles away", and actually suffers more on race days than Combe itself because it is the main route in to the track. Life can be unpleasant in Yatton with the numbers of idiots speeding through it on their way to/from the events. On Rallyday and JapFest you can't move for traffic. It must be terrible.
I'm not the one to ask, as I like the noise and would give my left arm to live right next to a track so I can peek over my garden fence and watch...
But I find the noise a heavily silenced engine makes quite an annoying drone. With several of them togther, the effect is additive, and is really irritating. But an unsilenced engine (or less silenced) does tend to sound less annoying, even if it's more noticeable and louder. Multiple cars together don't seem to have the same additive effect either, so it doesn't just become brown noise.
So perhaps, based on my unscientific and biased opinion, we should RAISE noise limits and ban anything too quiet or droney (is that a word!?).
But I find the noise a heavily silenced engine makes quite an annoying drone. With several of them togther, the effect is additive, and is really irritating. But an unsilenced engine (or less silenced) does tend to sound less annoying, even if it's more noticeable and louder. Multiple cars together don't seem to have the same additive effect either, so it doesn't just become brown noise.
So perhaps, based on my unscientific and biased opinion, we should RAISE noise limits and ban anything too quiet or droney (is that a word!?).
No... There is no reason to, all circuits have an agreement in place, if they run to it and those around understand the implications of living near a circuit prior to moving there then where is the problem?
Circuits, stick to your allocation of noisey days and noise test where appropriate.
People who live nearby, don't complain unless the circuit is running more than its allotted noisey days.
There are many cars that either cannot possibly reach the noise limits, or by doing so strangle the engine so much that they are unrecognisable to drive. By preventing them running in the UK you lose them to europe. You lose competitors, spectators, teams... Its one of very, very few industries where we are undoubtedly world leaders, why risk impacting on that by further restricting the available motorsports in this country.
I enjoy silenced events less and attend them less, (Both as a competitor and a spectator) i understand not every event can be to high noise limits or unsilenced and thats why the circuits have the agreements and restrictions on noisey days. It makes me despair when those who actively enjoy motorsport start suggesting more noise limits! Madness!
Circuits, stick to your allocation of noisey days and noise test where appropriate.
People who live nearby, don't complain unless the circuit is running more than its allotted noisey days.
There are many cars that either cannot possibly reach the noise limits, or by doing so strangle the engine so much that they are unrecognisable to drive. By preventing them running in the UK you lose them to europe. You lose competitors, spectators, teams... Its one of very, very few industries where we are undoubtedly world leaders, why risk impacting on that by further restricting the available motorsports in this country.
I enjoy silenced events less and attend them less, (Both as a competitor and a spectator) i understand not every event can be to high noise limits or unsilenced and thats why the circuits have the agreements and restrictions on noisey days. It makes me despair when those who actively enjoy motorsport start suggesting more noise limits! Madness!
MaxRacewear said:
spaximus said:
Castle Combe was not typical really. The five complainants were led by a Peer of the realm who used his influence to force the council to do what it did not want to. There was no complaints from the village of Combe it was from Yatton Kennel which is a few miles away. When you have friends in high places the will of the elected members are over ridden.
Yatton Keynell is closer to the circuit than Castle Combe village. Turn right as you come out of Quarry gate from the track, about three to four hundred metres and you're there. It is certainly not "a few miles away", and actually suffers more on race days than Combe itself because it is the main route in to the track. Life can be unpleasant in Yatton with the numbers of idiots speeding through it on their way to/from the events. On Rallyday and JapFest you can't move for traffic. It must be terrible.
You missed the point I was making and although it is not a few miles away the person who started the complaint does not live in the main road but is in that postal area. They moved into the area and then complained and used the law against the will of the local council to get their own way. When you have the councillors supporting the track but the Enviromental laws being used to overide what was there, it is wrong.
When people live next to shopping areas, churches, race tracks and any other thing that makes a noise and create traffic, if it is likely to bother you then don't move there.
I suspect we all fly, what if the same laws were used against the Airports? Certainly those near Bristol Airport have tried to restrict flights as traffic has grown and the noise from an aircraft is certainly louder than any car so does the law only apply to be used if the number of people and the size of business is below a certain size.
The hoops race tracks need to jump through now is stupid. Have you ever been at Donnington when they have to wait to do a noise test whilst a plane lands or takes off, it is the height of stupidity.
You don't have to be on the main roads around Combe to be gridlocked. I had a laugh the other week going to work on Rallyday when there was a guy hurtling round the back roads in his Beemer trying to beat the crowds, and I got in sooner on the main drag! That's the kind of thing that gets residents' backs up even before a racing engine starts and there's no need for it.
For another perspective on Mallory, get yourself over to Radio Le Mans where there is an interview with the Great Satan - aka Chief Executive of the council. I haven't heard it all yet but the behaviour of the circuit is on the surface guaranteed to cause friction. It's on the Midweek Motorsport download and about 8 minutes in. A good lesson in how keeping to the rules would work wonders!
Regarding noise of engines, I reckon you're right that they are quiet enough. On silenced racing school days at Combe it was not the engines we could hear but the tyres and there's nothing you can do about that.
I think you need to dig more into people's complaints rather than just insult them as NIMBYs and treat them with contempt.
For another perspective on Mallory, get yourself over to Radio Le Mans where there is an interview with the Great Satan - aka Chief Executive of the council. I haven't heard it all yet but the behaviour of the circuit is on the surface guaranteed to cause friction. It's on the Midweek Motorsport download and about 8 minutes in. A good lesson in how keeping to the rules would work wonders!
Regarding noise of engines, I reckon you're right that they are quiet enough. On silenced racing school days at Combe it was not the engines we could hear but the tyres and there's nothing you can do about that.
I think you need to dig more into people's complaints rather than just insult them as NIMBYs and treat them with contempt.
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