Drivers and Marshals interaction and communication
Discussion
Given the recent threads on changes to various circuit racing rules and regulations I thought it might be a good idea to start another thread instead of derailing the existing ones.
Maybe we could use this thread as a general Driver/Marshal questions/answers/observations/interactions/feedback thread to help both parties understand each others point of view.
Maybe we could use this thread as a general Driver/Marshal questions/answers/observations/interactions/feedback thread to help both parties understand each others point of view.
The first point could be how do we encourage more interaction and a more " all in it together approach" and less a them and us..
both groups love motorsport and both groups need each other so we should work together better..
our pit is always open and the burco is always on for a cuppa.
both groups love motorsport and both groups need each other so we should work together better..
our pit is always open and the burco is always on for a cuppa.
This might have been mentioned before, why not make marshalling once in a while mandatory to renew your race licence.
To be totally honest i have been racing for 8 years and never once fancied a day in orange and its not on my to do list, but we cant race without the boys and girls in orange and it would help everyone if we all had to have a day marshalling.
Not suggesting you have to do a day every year, but it could be once every 2 or 3 years.
I suspect i would not be happy to have to do my day watching instead of competing, but then again it might just be fun.
Just a thought.
To be totally honest i have been racing for 8 years and never once fancied a day in orange and its not on my to do list, but we cant race without the boys and girls in orange and it would help everyone if we all had to have a day marshalling.
Not suggesting you have to do a day every year, but it could be once every 2 or 3 years.
I suspect i would not be happy to have to do my day watching instead of competing, but then again it might just be fun.
Just a thought.
Not sure forcing someone to do something they dont want to is a good idea, especially something thats dangerous.
Encourage to volunteer but dont force.
Im not sure thd quote if it wasnt for marshslls there would be no motorsport is helpfull either, whilst true its also true that without drivers spending time and money there would be no motorsport.
We need each other thats what we need to get across imho.
Im up for working on this as a driver, team owner abd tvr car club competition secretary
Encourage to volunteer but dont force.
Im not sure thd quote if it wasnt for marshslls there would be no motorsport is helpfull either, whilst true its also true that without drivers spending time and money there would be no motorsport.
We need each other thats what we need to get across imho.
Im up for working on this as a driver, team owner abd tvr car club competition secretary
It's practical to get drivers into a marshal post for a day.
Not as practical to put marshals in the thick of a race.
I did a day marshaling at Curborough where it was touch and go with so few marshals. I suggested we rotate drivers at the posts nearest the pits. Not sure who took more offence!
Not as practical to put marshals in the thick of a race.
I did a day marshaling at Curborough where it was touch and go with so few marshals. I suggested we rotate drivers at the posts nearest the pits. Not sure who took more offence!
Graham said:
Not sure forcing someone to do something they dont want to is a good idea, especially something thats dangerous.
Encourage to volunteer but dont force.
True, perhaps they could make the stress related ECG test i Have to do every 2 years optional.Encourage to volunteer but dont force.
Its dangerous for me to exercise and the stress of parting with 300 quid cant be good for my health
chrisb0 said:
Graham said:
Not sure forcing someone to do something they dont want to is a good idea, especially something thats dangerous.
Encourage to volunteer but dont force.
True, perhaps they could make the stress related ECG test i Have to do every 2 years optional.Encourage to volunteer but dont force.
Its dangerous for me to exercise and the stress of parting with 300 quid cant be good for my health
I did end up marshalling accidentally one day... car blew up big style at cadwell, lots of oil and flames into the barrier on its own oil at Barn. Marshall put the fire out whilst I grabbed his flag and waved it to alert the other drivers to the oil across the track... apparently the radio call from the next post had the coc and his team in stitches..
I'm sure that drivers can get a signature on their license in exchange for a days marshalling? surely thats encouragement enough? (except obviously for the guys that have enough and don't want any more!).
To be honest I read the marshalls forum on 10/tenths and the marshalls come across as quite whinghey, yes I know that that there would be no racing without them etc etc. However I think it is a perception thing, everyone that turns up to a cold and wet meeting does so because they want to (Marshalls, other officials, drivers, their wives etc etc), I have been at many race meetings neither as a competitor or marshall but have seen enough of both camps acting like t
ts.
I'm not sure what the answer is, just that some people need to chill the fk out and enjoy the sport or don't do it.
To be honest I read the marshalls forum on 10/tenths and the marshalls come across as quite whinghey, yes I know that that there would be no racing without them etc etc. However I think it is a perception thing, everyone that turns up to a cold and wet meeting does so because they want to (Marshalls, other officials, drivers, their wives etc etc), I have been at many race meetings neither as a competitor or marshall but have seen enough of both camps acting like t
ts.I'm not sure what the answer is, just that some people need to chill the f
k out and enjoy the sport or don't do it.Some good points.
I guess in general on forums people like a good old moan about stuff and yes, I agree some of the Ten Tenths threads can sound a bit whingey, but as in most cases there are usually a few 'expert' whingers.
A track day is a good idea because it gives a better idea of a drivers line of sight and when you are most likely to see our flag which should help for more effective flagging. After all it's the only way we can communicate with the drivers. But, Marshals can also learn a lot from watching various in car footage of races especially events we have been flagging at. MSVR very kindly usually arrange for a day at each of thier circuits around this time of year.
I think it's a good idea to try and get drivers doing a days marshalling. Whenever I've had a driver with me for the day I feel we have both learnt from it. As others have said it is no good forcing people to do it. iirc one of the Caterham championships used to give points towards the championship and a signature on thier licence for a days marshalling. When I first got my National B licence I did a day and got a signature for it.
The old arguement of no racing without Marshals. I guess it could carry on with far less marshals but with the addition of a couple of rapid response incident trucks, but that would probably mean more safety cars/red flags a bit like a test or track day.
I've never really felt 'us and them' but maybe that's just my attitude or mindset. We have the cheap end of the deal - some overalls, waterproofs and some petrol money. We get to see some great racing and some beautiful cars. Some days seem to last forever just standing around in the pouring rain with nothing to do and other days when it's non-stop running around in the gravel. Would I swap it for staying at home at the weekends and doing DIY etc, no way.
Might even look at doing some racing this year. It's been quite a while.
Really looking forward to the 2014 season, let's hope it's a safe and successful one.
I guess in general on forums people like a good old moan about stuff and yes, I agree some of the Ten Tenths threads can sound a bit whingey, but as in most cases there are usually a few 'expert' whingers.
A track day is a good idea because it gives a better idea of a drivers line of sight and when you are most likely to see our flag which should help for more effective flagging. After all it's the only way we can communicate with the drivers. But, Marshals can also learn a lot from watching various in car footage of races especially events we have been flagging at. MSVR very kindly usually arrange for a day at each of thier circuits around this time of year.
I think it's a good idea to try and get drivers doing a days marshalling. Whenever I've had a driver with me for the day I feel we have both learnt from it. As others have said it is no good forcing people to do it. iirc one of the Caterham championships used to give points towards the championship and a signature on thier licence for a days marshalling. When I first got my National B licence I did a day and got a signature for it.
The old arguement of no racing without Marshals. I guess it could carry on with far less marshals but with the addition of a couple of rapid response incident trucks, but that would probably mean more safety cars/red flags a bit like a test or track day.
I've never really felt 'us and them' but maybe that's just my attitude or mindset. We have the cheap end of the deal - some overalls, waterproofs and some petrol money. We get to see some great racing and some beautiful cars. Some days seem to last forever just standing around in the pouring rain with nothing to do and other days when it's non-stop running around in the gravel. Would I swap it for staying at home at the weekends and doing DIY etc, no way.
Might even look at doing some racing this year. It's been quite a while.
Really looking forward to the 2014 season, let's hope it's a safe and successful one.
I marshalled for 36 years at all levels and at most forms of 4 wheeled motorsport (did 2 wheels a few times but they're all barking) .
In that time I came across diamond geezers and total w#nkers from in and out of the car , pretty much like any other part of life.
Spending time looking from the other person's view no matter what you do is always useful.
I was always amazed by how little knowledge some drivers had of the rules and regs of motorsport, and very little technical skill on set up and driving lines.
All competitors must belong to a club , and all clubs have marshalls and officials , go to the club nights and talk to people you will be surprised what you can learn.
If you visit a new venue as a driver go and talk to the local marshalls they will know the circuit inside out. I once got a visiting driver to lower his lap times by 1.5 secs by changing his line at one corner.
Many sprint championships offered class points to any driver who marshalled, many did, many found it informative, many did not feel safe being so close to the action without a car for protection.
In that time I came across diamond geezers and total w#nkers from in and out of the car , pretty much like any other part of life.
Spending time looking from the other person's view no matter what you do is always useful.
I was always amazed by how little knowledge some drivers had of the rules and regs of motorsport, and very little technical skill on set up and driving lines.
All competitors must belong to a club , and all clubs have marshalls and officials , go to the club nights and talk to people you will be surprised what you can learn.
If you visit a new venue as a driver go and talk to the local marshalls they will know the circuit inside out. I once got a visiting driver to lower his lap times by 1.5 secs by changing his line at one corner.
Many sprint championships offered class points to any driver who marshalled, many did, many found it informative, many did not feel safe being so close to the action without a car for protection.
I had no idea there was a drivers/marshals divide. Is it a circuit racing thing? In sprinting, that's not the case at events I've attended and when the marshals come walking around the paddock at lunch, I always seem to end up having a friendly chat with a few and I've often had marshals help put the car on the trailer at the end of the day.
At other club-level events, it's obvious that all involved have turned up to do what they enjoy doing for a day out. Try marshalling a Sporting Trial and finding a driver who doesn't say "thanks for marshalling" to every single marshal on their last ascent of each hill. Perhaps the fact that you can see the faces of the drivers and marshals has a big impact on the friendliness? In AutoSolo, the drivers are the marshals.
At other club-level events, it's obvious that all involved have turned up to do what they enjoy doing for a day out. Try marshalling a Sporting Trial and finding a driver who doesn't say "thanks for marshalling" to every single marshal on their last ascent of each hill. Perhaps the fact that you can see the faces of the drivers and marshals has a big impact on the friendliness? In AutoSolo, the drivers are the marshals.
speaking as a marshal at club level in scotland there is no "them and us" between drivers and marshals, thanks to facebook a lot of us are good mates and have a good laugh and joke. we meet at the track or in a tyrewall and there is a a lot of respect on both sides. at the likes of BTCC you can see a divide as some drivers forget about us. I know that at knockie there will always be drivers putting a tin of sweets in the bothy for us and on weekend meets we are usually invited into a truck/garage/awning and told where the beers are. all we ask for in return is a wave on the slowing down lap and we usually get it
I've been racing for 15 years on and off and when I took my MSA test the one thing that was drummed into me was - at the end of the race always thank the marshalls. And no matter how good or how bad a race has been I will always wave, give a thumbs up at every marshal post on the way back. It's the least any driver can do
woof said:
I've been racing for 15 years on and off and when I took my MSA test the one thing that was drummed into me was - at the end of the race always thank the marshalls. And no matter how good or how bad a race has been I will always wave, give a thumbs up at every marshal post on the way back. It's the least any driver can do
Agreed 
I have not been aware of a perceived "them and us" culture.
Often Marshals will come and have a chat in the morning or at lunch and I see them chatting to other drivers, some have even ventured out and joined us around the BBQ on a Sat night.
Fully agree with the above poster about waving/thumbs up to all the Marshals at the end of the race
Often Marshals will come and have a chat in the morning or at lunch and I see them chatting to other drivers, some have even ventured out and joined us around the BBQ on a Sat night.
Fully agree with the above poster about waving/thumbs up to all the Marshals at the end of the race
I've never seen this 'us and them' thing.
More than happy to chat to a marshal in the paddock, enjoy the company and help when the inevitable happens and i end up watching from a marshals post, always wave 'thanks' at the end of a race.
Expecting drivers to marshal is ridiculous imo, especially considering there are dangers and risks involved. Massive respect and thanks to those in orange, it wouldn't happen without you, but i have no desire to do it, just as some of them have no desire to race. Do you really want people on the banks and flags who really don't want to be there?
The standard of marshaling in this country is very high, forcing racers to join the ranks once every 3 years would mean more incompetence. If i have a big accident i don't really want the first three people on the scene to be people who marshal so infrequently they are unlikely to really understand the proper proceedure. If there were not enough marshals to run the event then maybe i could see the point of view, but as it is i don't see many pro's compared to alot of con's.
More than happy to chat to a marshal in the paddock, enjoy the company and help when the inevitable happens and i end up watching from a marshals post, always wave 'thanks' at the end of a race.
Expecting drivers to marshal is ridiculous imo, especially considering there are dangers and risks involved. Massive respect and thanks to those in orange, it wouldn't happen without you, but i have no desire to do it, just as some of them have no desire to race. Do you really want people on the banks and flags who really don't want to be there?
The standard of marshaling in this country is very high, forcing racers to join the ranks once every 3 years would mean more incompetence. If i have a big accident i don't really want the first three people on the scene to be people who marshal so infrequently they are unlikely to really understand the proper proceedure. If there were not enough marshals to run the event then maybe i could see the point of view, but as it is i don't see many pro's compared to alot of con's.
The MSA reduced the number of B signatures to gain a A licence some years ago ( I'm sure it was 10 when I started ?!) Now it's 5 I think. Obviously only brought in to fast track wealthy drivers into their preferred GT cars. But back to my point. I did a marshals day to get an extra signature - perhaps that should be compulsory ? Not to increase numbers but to give drivers a view from the other side.
I will say my day at Snetterton including a 2hr radical enduro race on a hot day was painfully boring !
I will say my day at Snetterton including a 2hr radical enduro race on a hot day was painfully boring !
Edited by woof on Thursday 23 January 11:57
woof said:
I've been racing for 15 years on and off and when I took my MSA test the one thing that was drummed into me was - at the end of the race always thank the marshalls. And no matter how good or how bad a race has been I will always wave, give a thumbs up at every marshal post on the way back. It's the least any driver can do
This. Although I've only been racing for 5 years. I marshalled for a day once in my Caterham Academy year, and it really does make such a difference to have the "thanks" from the drivers. Incidentally, I've never struggled with a them and us with the marshalls. Once or twice with the Clerk ...
Jez
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