Singe seater FF1600 Journey
Discussion
Hi All
I thought it would be interesting to document our experiences as my 16 year old lad makes his debut racing Formula Ford.
After a good few years in karts, mostly tough years, but we had some moments, we have made the jump to a Single seater.
So this weekend he races for the first time in the United Formula Ford Series in a 2010 Ray that we are buying.
I had wanted to go down the Super classic route, as it would have ideal to learn the craft in an older more forgiving car.
However the cars that we could use, all had the same issue, too cramped for my lad. He is 5ft 11 but has size 10 feet.
Not an issue I had thought about.
Now apparently back in the day, drivers used to tape up feet and cut boots apart etc, but as a Dad I was a bit uneasy about this so we went with the newer bigger Ray
My lad, Harrison, first tested at Donnington and did not get of to a great start, with dash failure indicating no oil pressure twice resulting in him pulling off the circuit, but one an old school gauge was plumbed in, he got two good sessions in. He was out on a test day with historics, which gave dad a heart attack initially. But everyone was very respectful and the sight of a Wolf F1 car blasting past my lad will stay with me for a while.
Then we tested at Brands, this time with a lot of the United cars and 2 teammates. Sadly in the afternoon sessions the engine went sick, fresh from a rebuild we think it had a ring issue. still it was seat time.
So now we go to Donnington, nervous yet excited. Still so much to learn, one key part being standing starts, something he has never really done before.
I am hoping that he can enjoy the experience and take it all in. It will certainly be a huge challenge and really all I hope for is to finish each race. we want to build up his experience this season at different tracks ready for next year.
Its all very different to karting, and after being so involved in karting, to basically just be a spectator now is taking some getting used too.
First Job really is to get off novice plates by ensuring that He does nothing daft or silly.
I will keep you updated as we go along this journey into club motorsport and see where it can take us. We dream high, but we race to a very tight budget and try to just make the most of everything we have.
I thought it would be interesting to document our experiences as my 16 year old lad makes his debut racing Formula Ford.
After a good few years in karts, mostly tough years, but we had some moments, we have made the jump to a Single seater.
So this weekend he races for the first time in the United Formula Ford Series in a 2010 Ray that we are buying.
I had wanted to go down the Super classic route, as it would have ideal to learn the craft in an older more forgiving car.
However the cars that we could use, all had the same issue, too cramped for my lad. He is 5ft 11 but has size 10 feet.
Not an issue I had thought about.
Now apparently back in the day, drivers used to tape up feet and cut boots apart etc, but as a Dad I was a bit uneasy about this so we went with the newer bigger Ray
My lad, Harrison, first tested at Donnington and did not get of to a great start, with dash failure indicating no oil pressure twice resulting in him pulling off the circuit, but one an old school gauge was plumbed in, he got two good sessions in. He was out on a test day with historics, which gave dad a heart attack initially. But everyone was very respectful and the sight of a Wolf F1 car blasting past my lad will stay with me for a while.
Then we tested at Brands, this time with a lot of the United cars and 2 teammates. Sadly in the afternoon sessions the engine went sick, fresh from a rebuild we think it had a ring issue. still it was seat time.
So now we go to Donnington, nervous yet excited. Still so much to learn, one key part being standing starts, something he has never really done before.
I am hoping that he can enjoy the experience and take it all in. It will certainly be a huge challenge and really all I hope for is to finish each race. we want to build up his experience this season at different tracks ready for next year.
Its all very different to karting, and after being so involved in karting, to basically just be a spectator now is taking some getting used too.
First Job really is to get off novice plates by ensuring that He does nothing daft or silly.
I will keep you updated as we go along this journey into club motorsport and see where it can take us. We dream high, but we race to a very tight budget and try to just make the most of everything we have.
Edited by Alwayzsidewayz2 on Tuesday 19th August 17:29
Edited by Alwayzsidewayz2 on Tuesday 19th August 17:29
Thank you guys for the interest
Safe to say it was challenging
We practiced on the Friday, and with the motor being freshly rebuilt, the times were not great at all
In fact my lad struggled to get close to the time he had set the first ever time he had driven the car and track
We continued on the Friday, trying to get my lad from bullying the car round the track and being scruffy to him calming it down. We eventually got an okay lap time, but the concern was that we were some way off. Still the main focus was signatures and mission creep was happening. just focus on finishing, everything else could come
Race day gave us a few new things to do
Talk to the Steward and hand over the Novice card, meet the Scuitineer and get our HANS device and new Helmet stickered up. The chap doing it was great, talked through all the checks on the car and safety kit
We also were talked through the tyre nomination form too.
I prepared a bit of text about my lad for the Commentator, as this was a low key event it was not live streamed, but the circuit commentary was still good.
We declined the extra open practice early in the morning as it was very close to the TQ slot a sensible call actually as the event ran early.
Before I knew it, my driver was in the car, and off to assemble by the melbourne loop.
The 18 drivers went out and H, my driver had the clear instructions of the Steward in his ears. Get 4 laps in, otherwise you will start from the back no matter what. Keep it tidy and avoid TL pens
So 4 cautious laps later, he started to chip away at the times, sadly then a red was thrown, as a leading driver span off. my lad came into the pits and waited, the session went green and off he went.
But the rhythm was a bit off and he only really set one quickish lap, good enough for 15th on the grid, a mistake on one lap seeing a TL pen, but it was very slow anyway
Annoyingly the go pro had not worked, turning off due to inactivity and the data was not there due to the team boss forgetting his lap top
There followed a long break until race 1.
My lad assembled on the Grid, but did not select first properly, so when he dropped the clutch he stayed still, the cars behind him did very well to avoid him. Eventually my Lad pumped the Clutch found first and drove off, but by now he was over 15 secs behind the leaders!
He caught and passed a few cars and kept himself out of trouble to finish 13th.
We were delighted, incident free race and he had made up spots from an awful start. He also was not lapped either
We changed the car slightly as understeer had set in
Race 2 was a bit more challenging
He should have started 13thm but the grid marshal put him back to 15th and he had to reverse, flustered he again did not raise the clutch to get first and the start was a carbon copy of the first. Visibly annoyed my lad again set off
A few laps in and he was sat in 12th place having made up spots, that became 11th after a retirement and we were close to a top 10.
While the pace was not that strong, it was more consistent and he actually lapped a car.
Then 3 or 4 laps from the end, the times started to slow and we could see him locking up at the end of the start finish straight.
Front right had a puncture and it was going down fast!
My lad struggled with the car, never having driven a FF1600 with a flat tyre before. He came in on the last lap with the leaders not far behind him. The team sent him back out to finish the race, but alas, he did not quite understand and came back in to the pits with the pack, thus never taking the flag
So a solid 11th turned into a DNF despite finishing laps ahead.
Lessons learned for next time
When my lad went to collect his card for signatures there was some debate, as he had "technically" not finished the 2nd race, however the main Steward signed it with a note that he had done 10 plus laps before DNF, which was a release.
A lot of the weekend was great, but sadly my son did not gel with the team.
So rather than jump back into FF1600 with a different team, we are going to use MX5s to get the rest of his signatures and then plan from there
Nobody really wrong, just a case of square peg round hole.
These first races are all about learning and fun, not trying to be the next Senna.
We take away a lot of positives ready for the next stage, which will be testing an MX5 prior to the next race weekend in september.
Few pics
Edited by Alwayzsidewayz2 on Wednesday 27th August 17:53
Ever since I saw my first FF1600 race at Oulton Park in 1968 I've been a fan and supporter. It was and remains the best junior single seater formula we have ever had . I've seen everyone from Senna to Button win in the formula , and modern racing , historic/classic FF1600 included, still offers wonderful racing . It's a winning formula - no aero , skinny tyres , light weight and no paddle shifts .
You've chosen well and I wish you and your lad every success
You've chosen well and I wish you and your lad every success
We have a decent FF1600 section in hillclimbs, considering the lack of power and poor tyres, thry ascend mighty well, we can sometimes have 10 or so.
The real boon is seeing someone in one who is destined for greatness
I personally think FF1600 is, wuth old 80s F3 the best single seater series anywhere
Watch some Bathurst races, they will blow your mind
As a kid, I recall clubby FF1600 at Cadwell, they even had a Championnof series!,
I loads of guys, Coulthard, Sospiri, Vergers, General,Gachot, it was awesome racing, especially there
The real boon is seeing someone in one who is destined for greatness
I personally think FF1600 is, wuth old 80s F3 the best single seater series anywhere
Watch some Bathurst races, they will blow your mind
As a kid, I recall clubby FF1600 at Cadwell, they even had a Championnof series!,
I loads of guys, Coulthard, Sospiri, Vergers, General,Gachot, it was awesome racing, especially there
Thank you All
It was with a heavy heart we parted company after one race
However you have to get the right environment for a young new driver to learn and the current team was better placed to run more experienced drivers basically. We will re visit FF1600 as the racing is top drawer and the cars great to drive.
I think we may look at Superclassic over time.
Mazda MX5 we are going with BRSCC hopefully, just sorting things now
The entire experience was great and really good learning.
It was with a heavy heart we parted company after one race
However you have to get the right environment for a young new driver to learn and the current team was better placed to run more experienced drivers basically. We will re visit FF1600 as the racing is top drawer and the cars great to drive.
I think we may look at Superclassic over time.
Mazda MX5 we are going with BRSCC hopefully, just sorting things now
The entire experience was great and really good learning.
While I wasn’t 16, my first race weekend was the scariest day of my adult life. Great that he’s been through it, getting used to scrutineering, qualifying, assembly etc is part of it.
The second race may not be a loss, when I sent my results in MSUK said they won’t count two races in the same day.
I’d recommend being ‘driver on the bank’ with the Marshalls. I found it a humbling experience, oh, and you get a signature.
The second race may not be a loss, when I sent my results in MSUK said they won’t count two races in the same day.
I’d recommend being ‘driver on the bank’ with the Marshalls. I found it a humbling experience, oh, and you get a signature.
Alwayzsidewayz2 said:
Thank you All
It was with a heavy heart we parted company after one race
However you have to get the right environment for a young new driver to learn and the current team was better placed to run more experienced drivers basically. We will re visit FF1600 as the racing is top drawer and the cars great to drive.
I think we may look at Superclassic over time.
Mazda MX5 we are going with BRSCC hopefully, just sorting things now
The entire experience was great and really good learning.
Which team are you going with for MX5s? I recommend Paul Sheard, he knows exactly what he is doing and has run plenty of inexperienced drivers. Can offer Mk1, Mk3 or Mk4.It was with a heavy heart we parted company after one race
However you have to get the right environment for a young new driver to learn and the current team was better placed to run more experienced drivers basically. We will re visit FF1600 as the racing is top drawer and the cars great to drive.
I think we may look at Superclassic over time.
Mazda MX5 we are going with BRSCC hopefully, just sorting things now
The entire experience was great and really good learning.
WombleCate said:
While I wasn’t 16, my first race weekend was the scariest day of my adult life. Great that he’s been through it, getting used to scrutineering, qualifying, assembly etc is part of it.
The second race may not be a loss, when I sent my results in MSUK said they won’t count two races in the same day.
I’d recommend being ‘driver on the bank’ with the Marshalls. I found it a humbling experience, oh, and you get a signature.
A bit late to this, but the two races on the same day thing is incorrectThe second race may not be a loss, when I sent my results in MSUK said they won’t count two races in the same day.
I’d recommend being ‘driver on the bank’ with the Marshalls. I found it a humbling experience, oh, and you get a signature.
The most signatures you can get from a single meeting is two, it doesn’t matter if you do 3 races you can only get two signatures, but it doesn’t matter if the 2 are both on the same day or over two days.
Update
Due to the goodwill of a team running Classic and Historic Formula Fords, my Lad gets to move forward his single seater experience.
He will be out this Saturday on the BRSCC Event at Donington racing a 1975 Royale RP21 Formula Ford.
H will have not driven the car before Qualifying, but at least he can get back out behind the wheel.
Its not straightforward racing when you do not have a team or car. There is a lot to say for owning a race car. despite the costs and challenges
Due to the goodwill of a team running Classic and Historic Formula Fords, my Lad gets to move forward his single seater experience.
He will be out this Saturday on the BRSCC Event at Donington racing a 1975 Royale RP21 Formula Ford.
H will have not driven the car before Qualifying, but at least he can get back out behind the wheel.
Its not straightforward racing when you do not have a team or car. There is a lot to say for owning a race car. despite the costs and challenges
Update on the weekend
Good 2nd race day for my lad
Despite a trickly TQ where he went off on lap too, a further red saved him and he got 3 more laps in to qualify in 10th
Race one.
Started 10th Good start.
Up in to 9th where he is in a battle that takes in cars all the way up to 5th
Keeps it very clean and tidy, driving for his signature, in what is only his 3rd race and his first actually fight in a pack
Gets the class lead but fluffs his gear change at the end at the chicance and is overtaken at the line. But puts on a very good show fighting the more modern Formula fords
The car was topping out on revs too, so the team change the top ratio for the next race
Race 2 is at the end of the day.
Starts 9th this time and he makes a great start and is straight up to 7th
Starts to push harder and gets into 6th with a nice overtake at the chicane
Then the rain starts, at first spits, then a deluge, just so heavy you can barely see.
At this point my lad, with all his years of karting and slicks in the rain, decides to go on the attack.
Gets up to 5th and is challenging hard for 4th at the line
Class win and 5th overall in a 50 year old Royal Formula ford.
Not too shabby a result for his 4th race and first ever wet race.
Pics from the day
Good 2nd race day for my lad
Despite a trickly TQ where he went off on lap too, a further red saved him and he got 3 more laps in to qualify in 10th
Race one.
Started 10th Good start.
Up in to 9th where he is in a battle that takes in cars all the way up to 5th
Keeps it very clean and tidy, driving for his signature, in what is only his 3rd race and his first actually fight in a pack
Gets the class lead but fluffs his gear change at the end at the chicance and is overtaken at the line. But puts on a very good show fighting the more modern Formula fords
The car was topping out on revs too, so the team change the top ratio for the next race
Race 2 is at the end of the day.
Starts 9th this time and he makes a great start and is straight up to 7th
Starts to push harder and gets into 6th with a nice overtake at the chicane
Then the rain starts, at first spits, then a deluge, just so heavy you can barely see.
At this point my lad, with all his years of karting and slicks in the rain, decides to go on the attack.
Gets up to 5th and is challenging hard for 4th at the line
Class win and 5th overall in a 50 year old Royal Formula ford.
Not too shabby a result for his 4th race and first ever wet race.
Pics from the day
Hi nice read and good luck with the racing
Does sound like a lot of hard word and dedication is involved for sure and I assume not cheap at all
Can I kindly ask a few questions:
1.) What category of karting did your son come up from and what did a season end up costing yous?
2.) What do you think the single seater season will cost and how much is it for the car itself?
3.) Would your son say if he’s had good experience from the karting world does most that technique apply when it comes to driving the single seater or do you have to go back to basics and it s a whole new learning curve in regards to trying to get onto the pace with the front runners and be competitive
4.) Or is it all about which driver/team has the best car money and budget to put towards it
Thanks
Does sound like a lot of hard word and dedication is involved for sure and I assume not cheap at all
Can I kindly ask a few questions:
1.) What category of karting did your son come up from and what did a season end up costing yous?
2.) What do you think the single seater season will cost and how much is it for the car itself?
3.) Would your son say if he’s had good experience from the karting world does most that technique apply when it comes to driving the single seater or do you have to go back to basics and it s a whole new learning curve in regards to trying to get onto the pace with the front runners and be competitive
4.) Or is it all about which driver/team has the best car money and budget to put towards it
Thanks
Edited by reisskhan on Tuesday 30th September 17:24
Edited by reisskhan on Tuesday 30th September 17:27
Hi Thanks for the interest.
try to answer these best I can.
1. My Lad has raced kart since 2018, starting in cadets, he has raced X30, TKM and Rotax, in junior and then Senior classes
Season cost, between £9 - 15K depending upon what we were racing, if were privateer or with a team and the championships we raced in. We finished in the X30 British Championship, that was not cheap.
2. Depends, we have only just started out and at present we are hiring cars. Cars are from 8K upwards and Engines from 5K, but you need to factor in running and repair costs and what life the car has left. I would not suggest anyone buy a car until they have talked to some experts.
3. Karting provides a good base line, however learning about suspension and of course gears does mean that the driving does adjust. My lad finds it hard to get back into a kart and be straight on it. The input levels are so different, he needs at least a session or two in the kart before lap times are where they need to be. SM work is also valuable too. I think Karting has provided my lad with very good spatial awareness and the ability to read situations quickly and also park emotion and remain calm and in control behind the wheel.
4. At every level from Bambino karts upwards, the equipment makes a difference, Testing is key too, a lot of tuning is in the dampers in FF1600. More funds equals better engines and more testing equal more pace. But when it rains, then those advantages go out the window. My lad was able to push his car harder in the wet than others. the lack of grip leveled it all out. So driver talent and experience does make a difference. But I would be lying f I said it was all fair and rosy.
Hope those help
Tomorrow my lad gets his first taste of an MX5 at Donington, before racing it at Snetterton in a couple of weeks time.
try to answer these best I can.
1. My Lad has raced kart since 2018, starting in cadets, he has raced X30, TKM and Rotax, in junior and then Senior classes
Season cost, between £9 - 15K depending upon what we were racing, if were privateer or with a team and the championships we raced in. We finished in the X30 British Championship, that was not cheap.
2. Depends, we have only just started out and at present we are hiring cars. Cars are from 8K upwards and Engines from 5K, but you need to factor in running and repair costs and what life the car has left. I would not suggest anyone buy a car until they have talked to some experts.
3. Karting provides a good base line, however learning about suspension and of course gears does mean that the driving does adjust. My lad finds it hard to get back into a kart and be straight on it. The input levels are so different, he needs at least a session or two in the kart before lap times are where they need to be. SM work is also valuable too. I think Karting has provided my lad with very good spatial awareness and the ability to read situations quickly and also park emotion and remain calm and in control behind the wheel.
4. At every level from Bambino karts upwards, the equipment makes a difference, Testing is key too, a lot of tuning is in the dampers in FF1600. More funds equals better engines and more testing equal more pace. But when it rains, then those advantages go out the window. My lad was able to push his car harder in the wet than others. the lack of grip leveled it all out. So driver talent and experience does make a difference. But I would be lying f I said it was all fair and rosy.
Hope those help
Tomorrow my lad gets his first taste of an MX5 at Donington, before racing it at Snetterton in a couple of weeks time.
Following this with interest as I ve also just started single seater racing. However, being in my mid 50s I ll happily admit my aspirations are probably a bit different to your lad s and my talent (and ability to acquire more talent!) no doubt significantly lower - all just fun / dream realisation for me. It is also my first real experience apart form a few track days - I didn’t do karting etc in my youth. I went for Formula Vee as 1) it is about the cheapest single seater racing type you ll get 2) I know the mechanicals having restored many a beetle / camper van and 3) I wanted to own the car to avoid reliance on a team (and I m happy doing most of my own spannering). As it happens I ve only done a couple test days and one race so far due to work commitments resulting in a partial move to the Netherlands, but hopefully I ll get more track / seat time next year.
Anyway, a few questions / suggestions for you:
- it has quickly become clear to me that the single biggest investment I need to make is seat time, seat time and then a bit more seat time. Ideally with some coaching occasionally. With single seaters / open wheel that is actually quite tricky as you re limited to dedicated test days. Have you been able to do many and, if so, where? I m looking at Blyton Park in Lincs as it looks nice and open and they have excellent availability
- do you (your lad) have access to a half decent sim? I ve built a rig that (for me) is quite high end (but pretty entry level compared to what a lot of folk on youtube seem to have). It definitely helps with learning circuits / braking points etc. Of course you have to get to a certain level of fidelity to avoid risk of negative training but Formula Vee and Formula Ford are both well covered as are a lot of the tracks you ll go to in the UK
- do you plan to switch to owning a car one day and, if so, what formula / series do you think you d go for?
Hope to see you at a circuit one day, would be happy to let the lad take my Vee out for a few laps if ever the chance arose (if only to see it driven better than I can!)
Good luck, stay safe
Anyway, a few questions / suggestions for you:
- it has quickly become clear to me that the single biggest investment I need to make is seat time, seat time and then a bit more seat time. Ideally with some coaching occasionally. With single seaters / open wheel that is actually quite tricky as you re limited to dedicated test days. Have you been able to do many and, if so, where? I m looking at Blyton Park in Lincs as it looks nice and open and they have excellent availability
- do you (your lad) have access to a half decent sim? I ve built a rig that (for me) is quite high end (but pretty entry level compared to what a lot of folk on youtube seem to have). It definitely helps with learning circuits / braking points etc. Of course you have to get to a certain level of fidelity to avoid risk of negative training but Formula Vee and Formula Ford are both well covered as are a lot of the tracks you ll go to in the UK
- do you plan to switch to owning a car one day and, if so, what formula / series do you think you d go for?
Hope to see you at a circuit one day, would be happy to let the lad take my Vee out for a few laps if ever the chance arose (if only to see it driven better than I can!)
Good luck, stay safe
Hi,
Thank you for the kind words.
We know a driver who has been racing in Formula Vee for two years, Leon Frost, ex karter and I think he is now looking to more to FF1600. He really rates the series and the racing, however he is keen to progress I think after the two years.
I fully agree, nothing beats seat time. We have struggled on that aspect too. With Karting it was so more accessible. Tin top closed wheels are so much more well catered for for track time vs single seaters. We have tested at Donington and Brands Hatch only in the Single seater. With the cost basically being the same as a race day. On paper you get 2 hours track time, but in reality it could be less than 40 mins out on track on flying laps if you get lots of reds. Its also very hard at times as you can be out with Slicks and wings, who are Sooo much faster.
So far all our testing has been bolted on to race days, even if we have not raced, we tested at Brands for example, so at least we had some strength in numbers.
Its well worth joining all the social media groups to see if and when some are testing. Anglesy is one I know a good few use.
Sim Rig, My lad has a medium level rig, Moza Direct Drive wheel, good pedals, proper seat and frame, with a good PC. He upgraded the wheel from the entry level DD one, as he said it was not detailed enough.
He does do a lot of pre race practice, in all conditions, and while its not 100% representative it does really help. He treats the Sim time Just as he does getting in the car, same boots and gloves. Has clear objectives and will detail his feedback and data.
That's the other key part, we have upgraded our camera to allow it to map speeds etc and link better to the AIM unit we use. It really does help, my lad found a chunk of time last week, just by changing a braking point and turn in on one corner. I think its a very useful tool, especially if combined with data work.
Car, that's the tough one, my lad really enjoys single seater racing and gets a real buzz from the classics, but so many of the cars are different. Its going to take time to find the best option.
Long term I think that they can be solid investments so I think we will look at purchasing, even if his career moves to a different genre, as He has a real soft spot for them.
Hope that helps
Thank you for the kind words.
We know a driver who has been racing in Formula Vee for two years, Leon Frost, ex karter and I think he is now looking to more to FF1600. He really rates the series and the racing, however he is keen to progress I think after the two years.
I fully agree, nothing beats seat time. We have struggled on that aspect too. With Karting it was so more accessible. Tin top closed wheels are so much more well catered for for track time vs single seaters. We have tested at Donington and Brands Hatch only in the Single seater. With the cost basically being the same as a race day. On paper you get 2 hours track time, but in reality it could be less than 40 mins out on track on flying laps if you get lots of reds. Its also very hard at times as you can be out with Slicks and wings, who are Sooo much faster.
So far all our testing has been bolted on to race days, even if we have not raced, we tested at Brands for example, so at least we had some strength in numbers.
Its well worth joining all the social media groups to see if and when some are testing. Anglesy is one I know a good few use.
Sim Rig, My lad has a medium level rig, Moza Direct Drive wheel, good pedals, proper seat and frame, with a good PC. He upgraded the wheel from the entry level DD one, as he said it was not detailed enough.
He does do a lot of pre race practice, in all conditions, and while its not 100% representative it does really help. He treats the Sim time Just as he does getting in the car, same boots and gloves. Has clear objectives and will detail his feedback and data.
That's the other key part, we have upgraded our camera to allow it to map speeds etc and link better to the AIM unit we use. It really does help, my lad found a chunk of time last week, just by changing a braking point and turn in on one corner. I think its a very useful tool, especially if combined with data work.
Car, that's the tough one, my lad really enjoys single seater racing and gets a real buzz from the classics, but so many of the cars are different. Its going to take time to find the best option.
Long term I think that they can be solid investments so I think we will look at purchasing, even if his career moves to a different genre, as He has a real soft spot for them.
Hope that helps
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