Discussion
Tricky question and there's no real answer.
Ultima's can vary wildly in terms of both specification and build quality. The ability to 'customise' an Ultima to your own specs is both a blessing and a curse as one builders 'taste' may not suit everyone (Tuckshop's for example!)
Also, define 'spent a lot' - that could be 17k or 70k?
From watching the prices, realistically you're looking at anywhere between 35k and 50k for the current generation of the GTR and CanAm.
Ultima's can vary wildly in terms of both specification and build quality. The ability to 'customise' an Ultima to your own specs is both a blessing and a curse as one builders 'taste' may not suit everyone (Tuckshop's for example!)
Also, define 'spent a lot' - that could be 17k or 70k?
From watching the prices, realistically you're looking at anywhere between 35k and 50k for the current generation of the GTR and CanAm.
Stig said:
Tricky question and there's no real answer.
Ultima's can vary wildly in terms of both specification and build quality. The ability to 'customise' an Ultima to your own specs is both a blessing and a curse as one builders 'taste' may not suit everyone (Tuckshop's for example!)
Also, define 'spent a lot' - that could be 17k or 70k?
From watching the prices, realistically you're looking at anywhere between 35k and 50k for the current generation of the GTR and CanAm.
Wahey, for once I agree with Stig
The Ultima is a specialised market and is realistically controlled by:
a) How much someone is willing to pay you for your example at the time and or margined with
b) How much they are fetching on average judged by recent sales and prices in the classifieds.
If people were not in a hurry to sell, and could 'sit' on them without needing the money, then it is possible to have an influence on the residual market. Sadly this is not always the case and a low priced example could set a precedence. Its up to us to protect our residuals where possible.
On a performance / £ basis they should do well when compared to other vehicles with similar performance. the factory would liken the performance to the Macca F1, which would indicate excellent value for money. After all, what else gives that performance for that money?
Seemingly, differences in the engines has also made a difference with the offerings from Chevy, Ford, Alfa Romeo and Rover, but Chevrolet powered vehicles would appear to be slightly higher - aka 'factory spec'. This of course does not include the V12 varients, of which I have not yet seen any for sale secondhand.
The factory (well Richard) advised me that I should look at insuring my vehicle for £50-52k, which is a fair old whack for a four year old GTR. I was also told that because it was a factory built car, that would raise the price slightly, but I can't really see it. Ask me that again if I sell it
Personally I would be very happy if someone waved £52k in my face for my car when ready to sell but all will be revealed when it goes. One things for sure, it owes me more than that now. I can't see who built the car make any difference provided it was built properly and with the right bits.
Don't be put off by the recent sales though as we have only just started our summer weather over here and cool cars alway do better in the summer
I would also add that the further you go from a non factory 'spec' car (different engines, different brakes, suspension etc.) the more buyers are put off no matter how good/superior the bits are supposed to be.
For a potential buyer, if it's a factory supplied bit that goes wrong/breaks etc. then you at least have some recourse. If it's an aftermarket part then you're a bit stuffed
For a potential buyer, if it's a factory supplied bit that goes wrong/breaks etc. then you at least have some recourse. If it's an aftermarket part then you're a bit stuffed
Stig said:
I would also add that the further you go from a non factory 'spec' car (different engines, different brakes, suspension etc.) the more buyers are put off no matter how good/superior the bits are supposed to be.
For a potential buyer, if it's a factory supplied bit that goes wrong/breaks etc. then you at least have some recourse. If it's an aftermarket part then you're a bit stuffed
Swings and roundabouts, Sir, swings and roundabouts! I would say if I had the opportunity to have an Ultima (to dream...) and be able to trailer my Pride n'Joy back to the factory in 8 hours (or so), I can see your point. Igor, CZ, Patriq and the folks on my side of the Pond are at a bit of a disadvantage, travel-wise. Modifying any vehicle carries the risk of voiding any warranty and we owners have to assess the cost in both time and money -let alone safety- of what we do. A poorly done anything, is still poorly done, and being able to get factory supported help easily will help anyone. I am not trying to start a "Mod-not Mod" debate, really!
Isn't the desire to have cars that are different and unique why we are buying and building various exotic vehicles?
Two cents and Best Wishes,
Dave
just dave said:
I would also add that the further you go from a non factory 'spec' car (different engines, different brakes, suspension etc.) the more buyers are put off no matter how good/superior the bits are supposed to be.
For a potential buyer, if it's a factory supplied bit that goes wrong/breaks etc. then you at least have some recourse. If it's an aftermarket part then you're a bit stuffed
Swings and roundabouts, Sir, swings and roundabouts! I would say if I had the opportunity to have an Ultima (to dream...) and be able to trailer my Pride n'Joy back to the factory in 8 hours (or so), I can see your point. Igor, CZ, Patriq and the folks on my side of the Pond are at a bit of a disadvantage, travel-wise. Modifying any vehicle carries the risk of voiding any warranty and we owners have to assess the cost in both time and money -let alone safety- of what we do. A poorly done anything, is still poorly done, and being able to get factory supported help easily will help anyone. I am not trying to start a "Mod-not Mod" debate, really!
Isn't the desire to have cars that are different and unique why we are buying and building various exotic vehicles?
Two cents and Best Wishes,
Dave
Dave, fair comment, but the point I was making was that people do seem put off when the car in question has non-factory supplied parts for major components - like brakes, suspension, instrumentation etc. If you look at the classifieds the slow sellers seem to be those most departed from the 'factory' spec.?
That doesn't make them inferior by any means (possibly superior in some cases), it's just human nature that when you're parting with a big wad of cash you want some mental reassurance that you know what you're getting
Take for example adequatespeed's dash system. An amazing bit of technology, but what happens 3 owners down the line when if it goes wrong? Who's going to sort it out? I'm sure he would given the chance but who's to say you'll be able to get in touch with him?
That's my point really, but I can see the argument from both sides.
Stig said:
[quote=just dave]
[quote=Stig]I would also add that the further you go from a non factory 'spec' car (different engines, different brakes, suspension etc.) the more buyers are put off no matter how good/superior the bits are supposed to be....
.....Bits trimmed ....
.....More bits....
That's my point really, but I can see the argument from both sides.
Well said. Agree totally.
Dave
just dave said:
[quote=just dave]
[quote=Stig]I would also add that the further you go from a non factory 'spec' car (different engines, different brakes, suspension etc.) the more buyers are put off no matter how good/superior the bits are supposed to be....
.....Bits trimmed ....
.....More bits....
That's my point really, but I can see the argument from both sides.
Well said. Agree totally.
Dave
Further to all of these comments it is worth adding that someone buying a built car is less likely to be mechanically aware. It is this that makes them look for 'Factory Spec'.
Steve
There are some very good points being made. Where a car is built to 'Factory Spec' has to be an advantage come re-sale time. I know whilst selling mine that several potential buyers flinched at the fact the engine was not from AS! They percieved an AS engine as being the 'Ultima' engine.
I know other cars out there have been sold that were further away from factory spec than mine, and fetched good money, so it is of course possible to sell such cars. I wonder how many people looked at those cars and shyed away in total ignorance of their build quality because they lacked certain labels?
Comfort and security? Oh well, keep on enjoying them and be smug at having a great car!
Paul.
I know other cars out there have been sold that were further away from factory spec than mine, and fetched good money, so it is of course possible to sell such cars. I wonder how many people looked at those cars and shyed away in total ignorance of their build quality because they lacked certain labels?
Comfort and security? Oh well, keep on enjoying them and be smug at having a great car!
Paul.
Cabby said:
There are some very good points being made. Where a car is built to 'Factory Spec' has to be an advantage come re-sale time. I know whilst selling mine that several potential buyers flinched at the fact the engine was not from AS! They percieved an AS engine as being the 'Ultima' engine.
I know other cars out there have been sold that were further away from factory spec than mine, and fetched good money, so it is of course possible to sell such cars. I wonder how many people looked at those cars and shyed away in total ignorance of their build quality because they lacked certain labels?
Comfort and security? Oh well, keep on enjoying them and be smug at having a great car!
Paul.
Paul, Stig and all,
That is the point that you helped me clarify: people looking as these types of cars as something to be bought, not built! Having restored a TR-4A IRS that was wrapped around a pole by the new owner after one week, I have not spent that much time or money on fixing a car since. If an Ultima is in my future, it will be with me for a long time!
Good night all,
Dave
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