Legal advise ground clearance and petrol stations
Discussion
hi Guys
My Ultima has been damaged at a local petrol station(well know and a partner with Ferrari) and the ramp into it is excessive steep along with a raised water grate over 1 inch higher than the already steep angle.
It not only damaged the splitter buy also hit the chassis when it stopped. I was very cautious and stopped before proceeding at an angle(incar video as proof). I have loads of photos of the car and the ramp and have measured the road angle and ramp angle for reference.
I spoke to the petrol company HQ who have reponded by saying it is not their responsibilty to provide access into their stations for low cars and therefore the responsibilty of the owner to make sure it is fit for use on the road..
Is there an owner on here who can give me some legal advise? Oviously the ultima is higher than a 430 scud, gt3 porsche, bugati, lambo and Gumberts etc etc. and to recieve a reply from a company who publically promote their partnership with a supercar company seems a bit of a F.U statement.
I have spoken to our factory and they will support any action I might want to take as our cars have proven to be higher than alot of supercar manufacturers.
I have not named the company as we have a name and shame policy on here.
thanks Dom
My Ultima has been damaged at a local petrol station(well know and a partner with Ferrari) and the ramp into it is excessive steep along with a raised water grate over 1 inch higher than the already steep angle.
It not only damaged the splitter buy also hit the chassis when it stopped. I was very cautious and stopped before proceeding at an angle(incar video as proof). I have loads of photos of the car and the ramp and have measured the road angle and ramp angle for reference.
I spoke to the petrol company HQ who have reponded by saying it is not their responsibilty to provide access into their stations for low cars and therefore the responsibilty of the owner to make sure it is fit for use on the road..
Is there an owner on here who can give me some legal advise? Oviously the ultima is higher than a 430 scud, gt3 porsche, bugati, lambo and Gumberts etc etc. and to recieve a reply from a company who publically promote their partnership with a supercar company seems a bit of a F.U statement.
I have spoken to our factory and they will support any action I might want to take as our cars have proven to be higher than alot of supercar manufacturers.
I have not named the company as we have a name and shame policy on here.
thanks Dom
Dom,
As I have said in the original thread on SPL, you need to find out if the ramp is adopted off the highway agency. Depending where the offending bit is, it could be the responsibility of the council. If so, then you have a right to make a claim against them.
If it is deffo the reponsibility of the petrol company, I suspect that unless you cause a rhumpus in the press etc and they buckle, you are going to have a fight as you have to prove negligence, therefore the costs go up as you would have to employ a solicitor if you want expert help!
Could be a nice story for the press?
The other way is to harrass the incessantly with letters of complaint and demand for compensation until the want to pay you to go away! That can work....occasionally!
Keef
As I have said in the original thread on SPL, you need to find out if the ramp is adopted off the highway agency. Depending where the offending bit is, it could be the responsibility of the council. If so, then you have a right to make a claim against them.
If it is deffo the reponsibility of the petrol company, I suspect that unless you cause a rhumpus in the press etc and they buckle, you are going to have a fight as you have to prove negligence, therefore the costs go up as you would have to employ a solicitor if you want expert help!
Could be a nice story for the press?
The other way is to harrass the incessantly with letters of complaint and demand for compensation until the want to pay you to go away! That can work....occasionally!
Keef
As it happens a few years ago( probably about 15 ) I drove through a McDonalds and knocked the exhaust off my Capri on a speed hump , I wrote a polite letter to the manager of the branch and I got a cheque through the post for the £30 that a local garage gave me a quote to fit it back on ( I refitted it myself ) , I know it doesnt help you , but ! if you never ask you never know ???
I feel that publicity might be the way forward.
name and shame..
the ramp is over 8 degrees angle, the road camber is -1.9 degrees
total is over 10 degrees however......... 3 foot up ramp a degrading storm grate and concrete is over 1 inch higher than the ramp so what ever the ramp angle, directly where a bumper might be there is a inch high obsticle ready to pounce. Im not talking hitting the splitter or front clip here but the chassis too!!!!!!
my arguement is this.. If the petrol company who have a logo looking like a sea shell publically promote Ferrari as a sponsor and use their cars in advertising, why dont they welcombe them onto the forecourt???
Dom
name and shame..
the ramp is over 8 degrees angle, the road camber is -1.9 degrees
total is over 10 degrees however......... 3 foot up ramp a degrading storm grate and concrete is over 1 inch higher than the ramp so what ever the ramp angle, directly where a bumper might be there is a inch high obsticle ready to pounce. Im not talking hitting the splitter or front clip here but the chassis too!!!!!!
my arguement is this.. If the petrol company who have a logo looking like a sea shell publically promote Ferrari as a sponsor and use their cars in advertising, why dont they welcombe them onto the forecourt???
Dom
V8Dom said:
I feel that publicity might be the way forward.
name and shame..
the ramp is over 8 degrees angle, the road camber is -1.9 degrees
total is over 10 degrees however......... 3 foot up ramp a degrading storm grate and concrete is over 1 inch higher than the ramp so what ever the ramp angle, directly where a bumper might be there is a inch high obsticle ready to pounce. Im not talking hitting the splitter or front clip here but the chassis too!!!!!!
my arguement is this.. If the petrol company who have a logo looking like a sea shell publically promote Ferrari as a sponsor and use their cars in advertising, why dont they welcombe them onto the forecourt???
Dom
You need to be careful! Publicity in your eyes could be libel/slander in theirs.name and shame..
the ramp is over 8 degrees angle, the road camber is -1.9 degrees
total is over 10 degrees however......... 3 foot up ramp a degrading storm grate and concrete is over 1 inch higher than the ramp so what ever the ramp angle, directly where a bumper might be there is a inch high obsticle ready to pounce. Im not talking hitting the splitter or front clip here but the chassis too!!!!!!
my arguement is this.. If the petrol company who have a logo looking like a sea shell publically promote Ferrari as a sponsor and use their cars in advertising, why dont they welcombe them onto the forecourt???
Dom
I suspect that if things turned nasty their lawyers would trump yours.
"concrete is over 1 inch higher than the ramp "
This is a health and safety issue for which the owner could get fined I suspect. Never mind the car, if someone were to trip over this, as it is exposed to "public access", and it caused injury, then litigation would likely follow!
Take pictures immediately!
Ignore the ferarri thing, this will just confuse the issue. The fact that the ramp and 'obstruction' is likely contravening health and safety laws, and can be report for such including taking out a claim against them. BUT DO TAKE PICTURES preferrably with a tape measure in place! ...and the damage to your car!
Keith
This is a health and safety issue for which the owner could get fined I suspect. Never mind the car, if someone were to trip over this, as it is exposed to "public access", and it caused injury, then litigation would likely follow!
Take pictures immediately!
Ignore the ferarri thing, this will just confuse the issue. The fact that the ramp and 'obstruction' is likely contravening health and safety laws, and can be report for such including taking out a claim against them. BUT DO TAKE PICTURES preferrably with a tape measure in place! ...and the damage to your car!
Keith
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 16th May 10:58
3Dee said:
"concrete is over 1 inch higher than the ramp "
This is a health and safety issue for which the owner could get fined I suspect. Never mind the car, if someone were to trip over this, as it is exposed to "public access", and it caused injury, then litigation would likely follow!
Take pictures immediately!
Ignore the ferarri thing, this will just confuse the issue. The fact that the ramp and 'obstruction' is likely contravening health and safety laws, and can be report for such including taking out a claim against them. BUT DO TAKE PICTURES preferrably with a tape measure in place! ...and the damage to your car!
Keith
loads of photos taken and with tape measure... even have petrol station in the back ground...
So if i use health and safty..whats my best course of action? any ideas..
Dom
This is a health and safety issue for which the owner could get fined I suspect. Never mind the car, if someone were to trip over this, as it is exposed to "public access", and it caused injury, then litigation would likely follow!
Take pictures immediately!
Ignore the ferarri thing, this will just confuse the issue. The fact that the ramp and 'obstruction' is likely contravening health and safety laws, and can be report for such including taking out a claim against them. BUT DO TAKE PICTURES preferrably with a tape measure in place! ...and the damage to your car!
Keith
loads of photos taken and with tape measure... even have petrol station in the back ground...
So if i use health and safty..whats my best course of action? any ideas..
Dom
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 16th May 10:58
crafty said:
My advice is that it's not worth the financial or emotional costs of pursuiing something like this.
There's liability on your side, you said you drove in cautiously, so you must have known there was a chance of hitting.
ramp angle was ok... i wasnt expecting a step as wellThere's liability on your side, you said you drove in cautiously, so you must have known there was a chance of hitting.
Taking on an oil co. is futile. They can happily tie this up in so much red tape for years, they have limitless funds and no doubt a top legal dept. They would drag it on forever and if there were rising costs that you could eventually get landed with then that could be very damaging. I would tell your story to as many Ultima owners and other enthusiasts as possible and ask them if this is really the place they want to buy their fuel? FWIW I'll gladly chuck my £400 a month into Tescos pocket instead.
Really? You'd boycott arguably the top fuel provider for this?
I appreciate it's annoying Dom, but I agree with above, move on and put it down to experience.
I can't see how you can possibly ever win against an oil company, you can't compete with their lawyers or pockets and they'll turn it round that it was you at fault for not making sure your vehicle was suitable to enter - they make sure it is suitable for the majority...
If you have loads of pics and it's that obvious re the 1" difference, can you not contact the council and at least get them involved?
I appreciate it's annoying Dom, but I agree with above, move on and put it down to experience.
I can't see how you can possibly ever win against an oil company, you can't compete with their lawyers or pockets and they'll turn it round that it was you at fault for not making sure your vehicle was suitable to enter - they make sure it is suitable for the majority...
If you have loads of pics and it's that obvious re the 1" difference, can you not contact the council and at least get them involved?
Dom,
As I mentioned earlier - you have to do your homework if you are going to stand even the slightest chance of getting retribution!
Yes, I know others here are saying give up! ..and sure, that is an option, and maybe they are right..
..but if are anything like me, I ALWAYS fight my corner and will not give up unless my head and all the mounting evidence says otherwise.
I have taken on Banks, DWP, Enery Companies, Social Services, lawyers, you name it, on behalf of my clients and family, and so far I have an 80% success rate for being bloody-minded, tenacious and believeing in the cause! Many have said to me at the time, it is not worth it, or 'you will not get anywhere'....but I did.
The satisfaction you get from taking on the huge and winning is massive, but do not let that blind you to reality, especially if it looks like it is getting counterproductive.
SO... go get in touch with the council highways division. Ask for tangible evidence of the ownership status of the ramp in question. 'Planning' might just help, or give you a starting point.
If it is council controlled still, then lodge a complaint and claim, together with piccys.
if it is not, then still talk to the council. Ring switchboard and explain the problem as a public hazard. Then when you are with the right dept, explain your concern about what you found, and how you found it! ...and ask for advice.
With all these type of things...BE PREPARED for a lot of time on the phone and dealing with this. YOU WILL use HUGE amounts of time on this...it is not a five min win!
Kepp trying the oil company...ALL big orgs rely on you getting fed up before they do! Show your metal!
Finally, it may be you have to go through your own car insurance to get compensation though...
If all this seems too much... Give up!
As I mentioned earlier - you have to do your homework if you are going to stand even the slightest chance of getting retribution!
Yes, I know others here are saying give up! ..and sure, that is an option, and maybe they are right..
..but if are anything like me, I ALWAYS fight my corner and will not give up unless my head and all the mounting evidence says otherwise.
I have taken on Banks, DWP, Enery Companies, Social Services, lawyers, you name it, on behalf of my clients and family, and so far I have an 80% success rate for being bloody-minded, tenacious and believeing in the cause! Many have said to me at the time, it is not worth it, or 'you will not get anywhere'....but I did.
The satisfaction you get from taking on the huge and winning is massive, but do not let that blind you to reality, especially if it looks like it is getting counterproductive.
SO... go get in touch with the council highways division. Ask for tangible evidence of the ownership status of the ramp in question. 'Planning' might just help, or give you a starting point.
If it is council controlled still, then lodge a complaint and claim, together with piccys.
if it is not, then still talk to the council. Ring switchboard and explain the problem as a public hazard. Then when you are with the right dept, explain your concern about what you found, and how you found it! ...and ask for advice.
With all these type of things...BE PREPARED for a lot of time on the phone and dealing with this. YOU WILL use HUGE amounts of time on this...it is not a five min win!
Kepp trying the oil company...ALL big orgs rely on you getting fed up before they do! Show your metal!
Finally, it may be you have to go through your own car insurance to get compensation though...
If all this seems too much... Give up!
Edited by 3Dee on Thursday 17th May 08:13
Do as Keith suggests. Take pictures and with a tape measure at the drop. On the highway anything over 40mm is classed as dangerous and could lead to a potential claim. On the footpath its something of 25mm.
So on a garage forecourt where people walk along in the eyes of the garages public liability insurers they may settle your case.
There is no guarantee.
Take pictures of drop, write to company and they will pass your letter and docs to their insurers/public liability adjusters (probably Garwyn Loss Adjusters) to consider your case.
See what response you initial get then take it from there.
Good luck.
G
Oh just a point often forgotten - Always exclude emotion from any communication of correspondance.
I know - Sounds like 'teaching Geandmums to suck...etc', but it is so easy to fall into the trap of getting wound up, and then you can lose on all counts!
" Oh gad.. I am sooo upset, I am steaming from every orifice you filthy b
ards have f%$£%ed my lovely.... "
You know the one!
Keep it cold courteous and concise!
I know - Sounds like 'teaching Geandmums to suck...etc', but it is so easy to fall into the trap of getting wound up, and then you can lose on all counts!
" Oh gad.. I am sooo upset, I am steaming from every orifice you filthy bards have f%$£%ed my lovely.... "You know the one!
Keep it cold courteous and concise!
I'm with the 'take it on the chin' crowd on this... not too long ago, I had to persue a small claims action against a supplier for a set of exhaust headers that were not as described and didn't fit my application when their own advert clearly stated they were suitable. I thought I had a cast iron case, but it still took a ton of form-filling, waiting (months) and some very frustrating telephone calls before the matter was settled and, even then, I ultimately wound-up out of pocket (not by much, but still). Clearly, this is nothing compared to what you would be taking-on if you were to persue this.
Personally, I don't think you'd get anywhere at all on health and safety grounds, since nobody has been injured. The council won't be at all interested in helping and you'll get the run-around. Trust me, it's really not worth the aggro to persue this and it could end-up consuming your every waking hour trying to fight. You could file a small claims action (which you can easily initiate online), but I would think it very likely that an arbitrator would rule against you if it ended-up in court (which might well sound unfair and unjust to you, but that's just what I think would happen here).
Sorry!
Personally, I don't think you'd get anywhere at all on health and safety grounds, since nobody has been injured. The council won't be at all interested in helping and you'll get the run-around. Trust me, it's really not worth the aggro to persue this and it could end-up consuming your every waking hour trying to fight. You could file a small claims action (which you can easily initiate online), but I would think it very likely that an arbitrator would rule against you if it ended-up in court (which might well sound unfair and unjust to you, but that's just what I think would happen here).
Sorry!
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